The Cannith Guild Union

[Capricorpus]

Saturday night update:

The current list of guilds that have expressed interest numbers approximately 15, comprised almost exclusively of friends/acquaintances I've contacted prior to making any more general announcements to the wider server crowd.

The group is, as of now, going to be renamed the Cannith Guild Association (shout-out to Money for the name credits ) due to a the negative connotations that the word "Union" brings with it.

[Hawkwier]

Saturday night update:

The current list of guilds that have expressed interest numbers approximately 15, comprised almost exclusively of friends/acquaintances I've contacted prior to making any more general announcements to the wider server crowd.

The group is, as of now, going to be renamed the Cannith Guild Association (shout-out to Money for the name credits ) due to a the negative connotations that the word "Union" brings with it.

Aye, there's the rub...

In that case wouldn't a better name be something like "Cap's exclusive friends and acquaintances elitist charter"?

Coz that's what this smells like to me.

Well intentioned though I'm sure it is, it is misguided and a wee bit patronising/insulting to anyone who expresses a constructive crtitcism on the forums IMO.

/not signed ( for what it's worth as I don't play on Cannith anyway )

I do hope Turbine ignore you to the same extent as the rest of us though. Before such nonsense spreads. Why the heck should you and your pals get listened to more than any other paying customer?

The forums may not be perfect, but they are better than this.

[Capricorpus]

Aye, there's the rub...

In that case wouldn't a better name be something like "Cap's exclusive friends and acquaintances elitist charter"?

Coz that's what this smells like to me.

Well intentioned though I'm sure it is, it is misguided and a wee bit patronising/insulting to anyone who expresses a constructive crtitcism on the forums IMO.

/not signed ( for what it's worth as I don't play on Cannith anyway )

I do hope Turbine ignore you to the same extent as the rest of us though. Before such nonsense spreads. Why the heck should you and your pals get listened to more than any other paying customer?

The forums may not be perfect, but they are better than this.

I'm guessing you haven't read a single one of the several posts where I mention that I'm talking to people I know in a preliminary attempt to gauge interest before attempting to get more people on board. Talking to people I know before reaching out to strangers is a pretty logical progression, and I'm unsure where you got the misguided assumption that reaching out to a wide crowd wasn't going to be one of the primary goals of this system.

I also stated, a number of times and in various posts, that I envision this as being an easier way for Turbine to absorb the opinions of a large group of people, as opposed to a way to give any opinions more weight.

Since you obviously didn't bother reading anything other than the initial post, and you seem to have barely skimmed that if you're misinterpreting the entire intent so badly, feel free to relocate your virtual self back to the forums of whatever server you actually play on. Thanks!

[Hawkwier]

I'm guessing you haven't read a single one of the several posts where I mention that I'm talking to people I know in a preliminary attempt to gauge interest before attempting to get more people on board. Talking to people I know before reaching out to strangers is a pretty logical progression, and I'm unsure where you got the misguided assumption that reaching out to a wide crowd wasn't going to be one of the primary goals of this system.

I also stated, a number of times and in various posts, that I envision this as being an easier way for Turbine to absorb the opinions of a large group of people, as opposed to a way to give any opinions more weight.

Since you obviously didn't bother reading anything other than the initial post, and you seem to have barely skimmed that if you're misinterpreting the entire intent so badly, feel free to relocate your virtual self back to the forums of whatever server you actually play on. Thanks!

Oh yeah?

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Didn't take much there did it?

Such a patronising response - (Well OF COURSE any dissent surely means the dissenter is too stupid to understand, or even to read properly, and their views therefore readily discounted, or better yet they should just go away. Problem solved. ) - serves to confirm that you, and those of a similar attitude, are certainly NOT the right persons to lead any such initiative, whether flawed as I believe, or not.

If you spit your dummy out over dissent at this, how the heck can you ever be trusted to represent anyone on something of significant import, that you may happen to dislike, or may have invested an anchored point of view in?

Here's a tip - if you really do want, God forbid, to be a virtual politician, at least be savvy enough to learn some politicial grace, even insincere grace, and a thicker skin - it will stop you looking like someone who maybe wasn't so well intentioned after all when you inevitably get poked wi a stick. Read "Animal Farm" too. Good book.

( And, yeah, I know that's patronising too - but then, I'm not the one seeking "office". )

Like I said before - it is a bad idea. From your response, someone like you at the helm would be a complete disaster from the off.

We have enough power-hungry politicos in RL - we certainly don't need more of them to represent our views on a game. The forum, with all it's flaws, is still better, and should NOT be diluted by such politicking.

That's my view - others can judge for themselves.

Also, I'd say that if Turbine do start to listen to you, nomatter how many members your new model army has signed up, ahead of the rest of the players of the forums, I, for one, will find that disgusting, as it de-facto discriminates between their paying customers, me included.

Turbine (who knows, they might be looking in ) - If folk like this ever do come knocking on your door - I appeal: I expect it to be a revolving one, with the exit leading straight back to the forum pages!

Cap, you are apparently a Guild Leader - why not content yourself with that, along with posting your own constructive views on the forums, like many others can and do? That way your view will get attended to/ignored based on its merits, rather than how many politbureau members you may have signed up. Just like everyone else (or is that your problem?).

Thanks though, for taking time in your clarifying response - it proved most illuminating

Now, I'm away back to my server. For now...

[andepans]

Harrycrum has elected to represent Jungle Law. Please contact him in-game. For whatever technical reasons he is unable/uninterested in accessing forums since they were updated.

Oh yeah?

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Didn't take much there did it?

Such a patronising response - (Well OF COURSE any dissent surely means the dissenter is too stupid to understand, or even to read properly, and their views therefore readily discounted, or better yet they should just go away. Problem solved. ) - serves to confirm that you, and those of a similar attitude, are certainly NOT the right persons to lead any such initiative, whether flawed as I believe, or not.

If you spit your dummy out over dissent at this, how the heck can you ever be trusted to represent anyone on something of significant import, that you may happen to dislike, or may have invested an anchored point of view in?

Here's a tip - if you really do want, God forbid, to be a virtual politician, at least be savvy enough to learn some politicial grace, even insincere grace, and a thicker skin - it will stop you looking like someone who maybe wasn't so well intentioned after all when you inevitably get poked wi a stick. Read "Animal Farm" too. Good book.

( And, yeah, I know that's patronising too - but then, I'm not the one seeking "office". )

Like I said before - it is a bad idea. From your response, someone like you at the helm would be a complete disaster from the off.

We have enough power-hungry politicos in RL - we certainly don't need more of them to represent our views on a game. The forum, with all it's flaws, is still better, and should NOT be diluted by such politicking.

That's my view - others can judge for themselves.

Also, I'd say that if Turbine do start to listen to you, nomatter how many members your new model army has signed up, ahead of the rest of the players of the forums, I, for one, will find that disgusting, as it de-facto discriminates between their paying customers, me included.

Turbine (who knows, they might be looking in ) - If folk like this ever do come knocking on your door - I appeal: I expect it to be a revolving one, with the exit leading straight back to the forum pages!

Cap, you are apparently a Guild Leader - why not content yourself with that, along with posting your own constructive views on the forums, like many others can and do? That way your view will get attended to/ignored based on its merits, rather than how many politbureau members you may have signed up. Just like everyone else (or is that your problem?).

Thanks though, for taking time in your clarifying response - it proved most illuminating

Now, I'm away back to my server. For now...

Editing: B+

Notice how your eyes are drawn inexplicably away from the author's message and towards the strategically inserted smiley faces that dot the margins. This is one of many unmitigated flashes of artistry and brilliance which can be drawn from Hawkwier's latest post. See also how Hawkwier demonstrates his near mastery of bad-posting by integrating randomly spaced breaks into the rambling commentary to allow readers to pause and reflect on his non sequitur style and spectacularly poor grammar. My only criticism is that there are too few parenthetical statements: the first few draw readers into the dialogue only to be left hoping for more off-topic comments inserted randomly into the text.

Style: A+

Hawkwier's latest contribution to this thread will likely be taught to generations of bad-posters for years to come. Examine this gem of a sentence with me, dear reader: "If you spit your dummy out over dissent at this, how the heck can you ever be trusted to represent anyone on something of significant import, that you may happen to dislike, or may have invested an anchored point of view in?" Note how the author has inserted commas seemingly at random to both confuse the reader and remind us that he has no cogent statement to make. The author's styling heralds in a new paradigm of bad posting and the quoted sentence alone would warrant a perfect A+ rating. Simply scrumtrulescent!

Overall: A-

In a post that recalls a level of unintelligibility not seen since the invention of movable type, Hawkwier's musings have both delivered the death knell to the Cannith Guild Union and simultaneously eulogized it's unfortunate demise. The only thing keeping this post from a perfect A+ grade are the questions it leaves unanswered, such as:

- When will Hawkwier return to the server whose forums he so eloquently pollutes?

- Was this entire post written by a robot from the future? And if so, should we destroy it before it becomes sentient or applaud its infantile grasp of the English language?

[zwiebelring]

The day when people create a government abyout a game!!! this game is dying and I say - sincerely - those people take the game far too seriously. I hope this idea never gets further than that brainfart as it is at the moment. Again, I am paying Turbine, not some self announced player governemnt. And it shall stay this way.

Suggestions are good. More we cannot have. Accept it.

[Capricorpus]

Oh yeah?

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Didn't take much there did it?

Such a patronising response - (Well OF COURSE any dissent surely means the dissenter is too stupid to understand, or even to read properly, and their views therefore readily discounted, or better yet they should just go away. Problem solved. ) - serves to confirm that you, and those of a similar attitude, are certainly NOT the right persons to lead any such initiative, whether flawed as I believe, or not.

If you spit your dummy out over dissent at this, how the heck can you ever be trusted to represent anyone on something of significant import, that you may happen to dislike, or may have invested an anchored point of view in?

Here's a tip - if you really do want, God forbid, to be a virtual politician, at least be savvy enough to learn some politicial grace, even insincere grace, and a thicker skin - it will stop you looking like someone who maybe wasn't so well intentioned after all when you inevitably get poked wi a stick. Read "Animal Farm" too. Good book.

( And, yeah, I know that's patronising too - but then, I'm not the one seeking "office". )

Like I said before - it is a bad idea. From your response, someone like you at the helm would be a complete disaster from the off.

We have enough power-hungry politicos in RL - we certainly don't need more of them to represent our views on a game. The forum, with all it's flaws, is still better, and should NOT be diluted by such politicking.

That's my view - others can judge for themselves.

Also, I'd say that if Turbine do start to listen to you, nomatter how many members your new model army has signed up, ahead of the rest of the players of the forums, I, for one, will find that disgusting, as it de-facto discriminates between their paying customers, me included.

Turbine (who knows, they might be looking in ) - If folk like this ever do come knocking on your door - I appeal: I expect it to be a revolving one, with the exit leading straight back to the forum pages!

Cap, you are apparently a Guild Leader - why not content yourself with that, along with posting your own constructive views on the forums, like many others can and do? That way your view will get attended to/ignored based on its merits, rather than how many politbureau members you may have signed up. Just like everyone else (or is that your problem?).

Thanks though, for taking time in your clarifying response - it proved most illuminating

Now, I'm away back to my server. For now...

I truly don't believe I can live up to the incredibly high standard set by Favre in his eloquent response to your post, and since you seem to have no sincere interest in hearing out any thoughts on this subject other than your own, this is probably going to be the last time I respond to one of your clear, concise, and not at all deliberately inflammatory posts.

I don't think you're too stupid to read properly, I think you either choose not to or lack reading comprehension skills. I'm obviously giving you the benefit of the doubt as far as said skills go, since I'd like to assume that you aren't just being unpleasant for unpleasantness's sake.

I'm sure your misguided, deliberately uninformed response to a post about a group on a server you don't even play on will go down in history as one of the key factors in the fall of said currently nonexistent Communist Organization. I'm sure, in the Cannith Stormreach of the future, your name will be mentioned along with the likes of Robert the Bruce and William Wallace, and, should they obtain rights to your story, the Cannith Filmmakers Association will begin filming a movie depicting your heroic last stand against the inexorable tide of Cannith guilds. The film would of necessity be only loosely based upon the original story, since the filmmakers weren't present in current Cannith, and oddly enough, neither were you.

Of course, this is assuming that you don't "spit your dummy out" in response to the news that the Cannith Filmmakers are attempting to create an association.

Anyways, rest assured that although you might not be receiving many favorable reviews right now, history will absolve you. Also, it's important to remember that the CGA can try to take your right to self representation, but they can never take your freedom!

[Th3ThirdFall3n]

*snip*
In that case wouldn't a better name be something like "Cap's exclusive friends and acquaintances elitist charter"?

*snip*

All I read was that and thought, "Oh man, another crybaby."

[nomaddog]

Greetings,

I sincerely wish you all the best in your efforts to get this off the ground. At this time, the High Rollers will not be participating in this endeavor. We are a small guild of diverse opinions and would never be able to get a consensus among our members.

My personal opinion is that the only way to get Turbine to listen is to speak with your money. If you have enough people who scream about something being 'just another money grab' and follow it up with screenshots of cancelled subscriptions, Turbine will listen. While I think you effort is well intentioned, I do not believe it will be successful.

[Hawkwier]

I truly don't believe I can live up to the incredibly high standard set by Favre in his eloquent response to your post, and since you seem to have no sincere interest in hearing out any thoughts on this subject other than your own, this is probably going to be the last time I respond to one of your clear, concise, and not at all deliberately inflammatory posts.

I don't think you're too stupid to read properly, I think you either choose not to or lack reading comprehension skills. I'm obviously giving you the benefit of the doubt as far as said skills go, since I'd like to assume that you aren't just being unpleasant for unpleasantness's sake.

I'm sure your misguided, deliberately uninformed response to a post about a group on a server you don't even play on will go down in history as one of the key factors in the fall of said currently nonexistent Communist Organization. I'm sure, in the Cannith Stormreach of the future, your name will be mentioned along with the likes of Robert the Bruce and William Wallace, and, should they obtain rights to your story, the Cannith Filmmakers Association will begin filming a movie depicting your heroic last stand against the inexorable tide of Cannith guilds. The film would of necessity only loosely based upon the original story, since the filmmakers weren't present in current Cannith, and oddly enough, neither were you.

Of course, this is assuming that you don't "spit your dummy out" in response to the news that the Cannith Filmmakers are attempting to create an association.

Anyways, rest assured that although you might not be receiving many favorable reviews right now, history will absolve you. Also, it's important to remember that the CGA can try to take your right to self representation, but they can never take your freedom!

Wow compelling stuff indeed! LOL.

Let's see....

So far, we have one from the grammar polis. Always a good one that.

One applying racial stereotyping. A bit less classy, if as commonly seen.

And one simply name calling. Wow. Belter there indeed!

Couple more irrelevances for the full house I reckon.

Stellar work all round there folks. Give yourselves a pat on the back.

This nonsense will fail, if it does, as I hope, because it's a stupidly flawed idea born of hubris. Nothing to do with me.

So deflective schoolyard tactics aimed my way won't change much in that regard. Which is just as well.

I've made my point anyway, so will happily leave it at that, before any more of your dummies start flying.

[Capricorpus]

Greetings,

I sincerely wish you all the best in your efforts to get this off the ground. At this time, the High Rollers will not be participating in this endeavor. We are a small guild of diverse opinions and would never be able to get a consensus among our members.

My personal opinion is that the only way to get Turbine to listen is to speak with your money. If you have enough people who scream about something being 'just another money grab' and follow it up with screenshots of cancelled subscriptions, Turbine will listen. While I think you effort is well intentioned, I do not believe it will be successful.

Thanks for your kind words.

I plan on attempting to contact Turbine tomorrow, and I truly hope they're able to see this as "humans wanting to talk to humans and discuss stuff" (which is what I envision it as) instead of viewing it as a new method of complaining.

Success is dependent on too many factors to be easy, and unfortunately, not every factor is going to turn out in an ideal way. It isn't just Turbine that could potentially view this in the wrong way, and the best way to convince people of what the goal is will be attempting to implement those goals and let the (ideal) results speak for themselves.

[darkly_dreaming]

Representative governance works when you are talking many thousands of voices needing to be condensed to the most succinct points in order to have validity. DDO, and Cannith, do not however – in my opinion – need this filter. In fact, it is the sound of the avalanche of opinion which works in getting Turbine’s attention – even more so when their avalanche is accompanied by the sounds of money fluttering away from their fingers. I would very much not want to see ANY opinion not put forth because the ‘representatives’ didn’t feel it was the consensus, or important, or met their particular ‘criteria’.

Every person who has an opinion should voice it; be that on the forums, calling Warner Bros. or Turbine, writing a blog, an op-ed for a gaming magazine, or writing an old fashioned letter of complaint or praise.

[Capricorpus]

Representative governance works when you are talking many thousands of voices needing to be condensed to the most succinct points in order to have validity. DDO, and Cannith, do not however – in my opinion – need this filter. In fact, it is the sound of the avalanche of opinion which works in getting Turbine’s attention – even more so when their avalanche is accompanied by the sounds of money fluttering away from their fingers. I would very much not want to see ANY opinion not put forth because the ‘representatives’ didn’t feel it was the consensus, or important, or met their particular ‘criteria’.

Every person who has an opinion should voice it; be that on the forums, calling Warner Bros. or Turbine, writing a blog, an op-ed for a gaming magazine, or writing an old fashioned letter of complaint or praise.

I might not have made this clear up until now, but I have no intention of trying to squelch the opinions of anyone. In my head, I picture the conversation with the Turbine representative going more to the effect of "the majority of people feel ____, but some people felt that ____ or ____". The goal wouldn't be to convince Turbine that everybody feels a certain way, it would just be doing some consolidation for them and allowing them to make their own decisions based on that information.

A lot of people seem to be focusing on the "talking to Turbine about our opinions" segment of this proposal, but that would in all likelihood be a relatively small part of what would be going on, since it wouldn't make sense to take a stance on an issue that isn't mostly agreed upon (which would obviously make most issues unworthy of a "stance"). A HUGE part of what I'd like to see is us being able to ask questions, which would be generated by our membership and sorted based on popularity. Like I've said multiple times, I'm interested in facilitating discussion, not formulating a new way to get complaints across. In a theoretical example, instead of just telling Turbine that most of our members dislike how annoying it could be to get new hearts of wood, we might try to discuss the rationale behind it, hopefully resulting in both us and them understanding all the sides better.

As far as your final point goes, I very much agree! This isn't intended to be a substitute for any of the things you said, but I think it could be a useful supplement.

[andepans]

it is the sound of the avalanche of opinion which works in getting Turbine’s attention

An apt description of the very problem that Capricorpus is trying to resolve. Here's an example:

Memnir + Fran Ohmsford = ~20,000 posts: an avalanche. Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me.

Jungle Law = 129 posts: three-snowflakes-moved-slightly-but-it-was-just-the-wind. Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me. 2) Memnir and Fran Ohmsford's avalanche of posts is useless for purposes of objective criticism because they have never played any content added after U9.

Obviously Turbine is not going to read 15,000 posts x 15,000 players worth of opinions. Most people can't even read a single Agordmils posts before nausea kicks in. There must be some other way for the playerbase to constructively criticize Turbine's design decisions. Capricorpus deserves credit for trying to provide that feedback. The Cannith Guild Union may be the only chance we have to reconcile our differences and unite as one to get Agordmils banned.

[Eyren]

Good morning, afternoon, and/or night, folks.

<snip>

~ Cap

While in theory your post makes some sense. it is basically a waste of time.

1. Turbine has an agenda. They follow that agenda. Only very rarely do they diverge from that course, no matter how misguided it maybe.

2. Your proposal has no merit unless you attempt to contact every guild leader on Cannith and make this proposal. You said it yourself. Only a small percentage of players use the forums. Unless you give everyone a chance to participate you are basically setting up a small cadre of active forum users to control what they think are flaws in the game. By only proposing this on the forums you have set this up to be exclusionary, only pushing an agenda that may interest a small group of people.

3. Historically attempts to organize Guilds in such a manner lead directly to the exclusion of a lot of guilds when it came to running raids. It increased the arrogance of some guilds beyond measure and made life generally miserable for a lot of people on the server.


While I think the concept is good. ultimately it will fail. If Turbine ever becomes serious about listening to player concerns and complaints they have to start the ball rolling. A all server inclusive player advisory council is the first step on a long roads towards providing customer service. So far we have seen Nothing from Turbine that indicates that they are prepared to start such a group..

[FranOhmsford]

An apt description of the very problem that Capricorpus is trying to resolve. Here's an example:

Memnir + Fran Ohmsford = ~20,000 posts: an avalanche. Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me.

Jungle Law = 129 posts: three-snowflakes-moved-slightly-but-it-was-just-the-wind. Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me. 2) Memnir and Fran Ohmsford's avalanche of posts is useless for purposes of objective criticism because they have never played any content added after U9.

Obviously Turbine is not going to read 15,000 posts x 15,000 players worth of opinions. Most people can't even read a single Agordmils posts before nausea kicks in. There must be some other way for the playerbase to constructively criticize Turbine's design decisions. Capricorpus deserves credit for trying to provide that feedback. The Cannith Guild Union may be the only chance we have to reconcile our differences and unite as one to get Agordmils banned.

1. I recognise the name but can't seem to recall who Agordmils is at this moment -When was he/she mean to me and why would I want him/her banned exactly?
There IS an Ignore Button on these forums btw {Not Saying said Player is on that list or not}.

2. Not sure I'm too happy about being lumped in with a guy who's main method of posting on this forum seems to be a "Supposedly" funny pic.

3. Update 9 = Red Fens so you're saying that I've never played Attack on Stormreach, Harbinger of Madness, Reign of Madness, Lords of Dust, Eveningstar, Schindylrynn, The Abyss, Druid's Deep, The High Road, Wheloon, E-GH.
You'd be wrong!
Just because I steer clear of Epic Elites {In the Full Knowledge that the characters I currently have OR had Pre TRing at those Levels aren't/weren't Epic Elite Capable} doesn't mean my opinions on the entire gamut of this game should be discounted or that I should accept being derided as a Noob/Bad/Gimp/CryBaby/derogative of the Day either!

[Capricorpus]

While in theory your post makes some sense. it is basically a waste of time.

1. Turbine has an agenda. They follow that agenda. Only very rarely do they diverge from that course, no matter how misguided it maybe.

2. Your proposal has no merit unless you attempt to contact every guild leader on Cannith and make this proposal. You said it yourself. Only a small percentage of players use the forums. Unless you give everyone a chance to participate you are basically setting up a small cadre of active forum users to control what they think are flaws in the game. By only proposing this on the forums you have set this up to be exclusionary, only pushing an agenda that may interest a small group of people.

3. Historically attempts to organize Guilds in such a manner lead directly to the exclusion of a lot of guilds when it came to running raids. It increased the arrogance of some guilds beyond measure and made life generally miserable for a lot of people on the server.


While I think the concept is good. ultimately it will fail. If Turbine ever becomes serious about listening to player concerns and complaints they have to start the ball rolling. A all server inclusive player advisory council is the first step on a long roads towards providing customer service. So far we have seen Nothing from Turbine that indicates that they are prepared to start such a group..

1) It's in the best interests of Turbine to understand and have a good relationship with their player base. I, in my naivete, believe that most of the things Turbine does that we (the players) dislike are a direct result of them not doing such a great job in getting opinions from us. I truly don't think that they've got a master plan with only their goals in mind, since, like I said, they have every reason to want to keep us happy. I suspect they have meetings where they come up with ideas, agree on them, and get genuinely excited about them without anticipating the negative reactions so many players will end up having.

2) It's my fault for not making this clear in my original post, since I was undecided about how I was going to go about this. I WILL be attempting to reach as many people as possible! In an ideal situation, every single guild WILL be represented, and I have been and will continue to be reaching out to people IN THE GAME, not just on the forums. I attempted to contact several individuals in Turbine, and, should they respond in a positive fashion, I plan on broadcasting an invitation to join this group (to help reach all of the people I don't know personally) via advice channels multiple times a day until I feel that I've reached people! Hopefully, if this works out, it'll begin to spread by word of mouth, since reaching everybody by myself is proving to be (unsurprisingly) a daunting task.

3) I'm unfamiliar with the "historic attempts" you speak of, but obviously, none of that is my intention, and I don't see why any member of this all-inclusive group would feel a need to be arrogant or filter based on membership.


I contacted Turbine last night, and I'm really hoping to get a response today. As a group, we all know that they haven't always been the best at this sort of thing, but that can change whenever they want it to. This obviously isn't the only possible solution to the problem that a lot of us agree exists, but if implemented properly with cooperation from Turbine, I truly believe it could be a very helpful tool for both players and Turbine employees!

[Darknark]

1. I recognise the name but can't seem to recall who Agordmils is at this moment -When was he/she mean to me and why would I want him/her banned exactly?

Ciao bella. I'm Gordy.


Hopefully this will end the tangential dialog Favre started in this thread.

My name occasionally gets used by Jungle Law for the purposes of comedy. I think. Either way, I approve of it.

So basically the OP is stating that Agordmils is totes a bully and that Zealotry has a soothing voice.

Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me.

Opinion: 1) Agordmils is mean to me.

Most people can't even read a single Agordmils posts before nausea kicks in.

The Cannith Guild Union may be the only chance we have to reconcile our differences and unite as one to get Agordmils banned.

I'm sorry that my posts make you vomit, Favre.

[darkly_dreaming]

I'm sorry that my posts make you vomit, Favre.

Lies

[Hirosue]

Good morning, afternoon, and/or night, folks.

Many of you might know me, some of you might not. For those who don't, I'm Capricorpus, completionist and proud officer of Clan Battlehammer.

The problem:

As someone who browses the forums daily, and posts somewhat less frequently, I've been noticing (as I'm sure everyone on here has) a very large amount of discontent. This issue is, of course, not exclusive to the forums; anyone playing the game has undoubtedly seen more than his/her fair share of disgruntled individuals. Of course, the things that are being complained about are, more often than not, entirely legitimate! Unfortunately, there's a dearth of constructive criticism, and anybody saying that Turbine developers don't listen to their player base just because they generally don't feel a need to respond a dozen times to a dozen similar threads is being silly.

As a Turbine developer, it's undoubtedly overwhelming to see a massive amount of posts on any given subject. Furthermore, since most of the forumites can't seem to agree on anything other than "things are broken and something should probably be done", as a developer and/or producer, I'm sure it's difficult to determine what exactly the player base DOES want. This is, of course, made even more complicated by the fact that the majority of players aren't even active on the forums!

So, what's the point of my long-winded wall of text?


My proposed solution:

As stated in the previous paragraph, one of the problems Turbine undoubtedly encounters is a lack of unity among their player base. How can they "fix" something when nobody can agree on how it should be fixed, or even on whether or not anything is broken? Complaining on the forums is unproductive, and undoubtedly depressing for the developers to look at - who wants to read a 30 page long thread where 50 different people spend time bashing the product you worked hard on without offering any realistic solutions? So, here's what we can do.

We, the players of Cannith, can form a group that I've tentatively termed the "Cannith Guild Union", which would work as follows:

- Every Cannith guild that's interested can choose someone to represent them. Each representative gets one vote.
- These guild representatives will meet and discuss things, laying their opinions out for discussion with others
- After discussion, there will be a vote. Based on the result of that vote, someone (a representative of the representatives - I'd be more than happy to fill that role, but I'd also be more than happy to have a vote about who should do it) attempts to contact Turbine with an opinion that, presumably, should reflect that of a large portion of the Cannith server. Assuming Turbine is interested in hearing about it, and I don't know why they wouldn't be, they would be able to know the general feelings of a lot of people, phrased eloquently and in a non confrontational manner, by speaking to one person.

So, what are the advantages of this?

Instead of a whole bunch of people posting things on the forums, much of which isn't constructive in the slightest, our goal would be to be able to approach Turbine with a clear opinion that's been discussed and agreed upon. Additionally, we want to attempt to offer solutions when possible. As it says earlier in this post, one of the key advantages could be the ability to have a mature, non-confrontational discussion with realistic expectations and goals.

Another advantage would be the larger sample size for opinions - as I also mentioned earlier, most players aren't active forumites, and with this solution, their opinions would be given equal weight. Obviously, the people who don't go on the forums would have a harder time finding out about this, but if we can actually get this started, broadcasting in /advice or something would be a way we could potentially overcome that obstacle.





At this point, I've been writing this for more than an hour, and I'm getting antsy. I'm aware that I haven't fully explored every facet of how this would work, but I think I've mostly outline my basic proposal. I genuinely believe that, should people choose to do this, Turbine will choose to give us the time of day, and I really hope people don't respond in a typically sarcastic and/or pessimistic way.

If you've got any questions and/or comments, please post and I'll do my best to respond. If you've read my entire wall of text, I salute you.

Cheers.

~ Cap

You are not a Turbine developer .
You have no way of knowing how it feels to be a Turbine developer.
Your entire post is based on an assumed and presumptuous claim of knowing what Turbine developers think.

F is for Fail


p.s every time that you say" we" you actually mean you yourself ......................( lol i just did what you did)