Questions regarding whether I should go pure TWF, or a Monkcher.

[Kingault]

Just some background info:
On my third life, went half elf for the fun of it, currently going twfing as a monk/ranger/fighter. I'd rather stick to one type of damage instead of swapping between, say range and melee.
I've been reading some threads, but I've never been able to find a comparison of, say, the average monkcher build, and... I'll go with two twf builds: 6Mnk/6Rng/8Fighter(Earth III/feats/Kensaietc), and 6Mnk/12F(The +8 psionic boost)/2RNG(if that can get me tempest, if not, then dunno) (Thinking of The Abomination, but modified for TWF only)
Basically, I have the following questions that I'd like answered. While various threads have made me able to figure some stuff by myself, I thought it would be a good idea to post this thread specifically to compare:

For Monkcher and TWF:
How big is the difference between DPS of the two?
I'm guessing that TWF has higher DPS sustained, but I'd to know for sure. I'm counting MS/10k, but not action boosts for this.

Which would be easier to solo/not die with?
I'm guessing Monkcher, but eh.

Monkcher:
How viable is going pure range, instead of twfing when 10k/ms are on cooldown?

TWF:
Would the 6mnk/12F/2Rng spread get me more dps, but cost me some survivability?


Pretty sure I had other questions, but I can't seem to remember them now.
I've been playing TWF for the last two lives, and well, I figured it was time I finally settled on a build. Thing is, I'm not so keen on going TWF again due to it being much easier to die due to being... melee. Then again, those were pure fighter lives, so I'm sure these splits will make it much better.
I'm not asking for specific builds, though that would be nice, but for opinions and advice about these.
Sorry if I'm asking obvious questions, but I'd like to know for sure.
Thanks.

[SSFWEl]

For Monkcher and TWF:
How big is the difference between DPS of the two?
I'm guessing that TWF has higher DPS sustained, but I'd to know for sure. I'm counting MS/10k, but not action boosts for this.

Which would be easier to solo/not die with?
I'm guessing Monkcher, but eh.

Monkcher:
How viable is going pure range, instead of twfing when 10k/ms are on cooldown?

TWF:
Would the 6mnk/12F/2Rng spread get me more dps, but cost me some survivability?

I rerolled my moncher into 12M/6R/2A.
There is no question that you can play pure ranged and be comparable DPS, even over time and not only burst. Also, because the burst is SO high (if you take fury of course) that even with the possibly lower DPS between the MS/10k, it will still average out.

However, I have found that I do like to switch between TWF and ranged for tactical reasons. So many situations where you are surrounded by mobs, or you have no room to move/ kite, or you are out of fury charges, that it IS better to be in melee mode.

And, all monchers will have cleave, GC, OC anyway. And impr TWF. So might as well. So I use dual celestias as my exclusive TWF weps (and spend a single AP point to make them ki weps) and switch between them and my pinion. (My rogue uses a bunch of twf wep sets, but as it is it's complicated here). I did spend two feats for melee; ICierce and GTWF that a pure ranged would not take. I sacrificed Grandmaster and um I forgot what else.
It can get a bit complicated vis a vis hot bars. My 1-5 for ranged is of course different than 1-9 on my melee bar.

So I mapped different bars to my KB and over some time, it became automatic to switch.
(personaly I have found the following works for me: C-melee bar, R= heal bar (with cacoon, scrolls, pots), Tab= ranged bar. And abundant step in the same spot on every bar.)

[elg582]

I have a 3rd life pure monk, unarmed, and a 1st life 12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter monkcher, and I'm here to tell you that the DPS isn't even close: Ranged wins, hands down.

I do keep a melee option on my monkcher, but there are a few points to bear in mind:

1. You do not have the AP to both max ranged and all the TWF enhancements; there just aren't enough AP to go around.
2. You DO have the AP to max ranged and get decent staff enhancements.
3. You can save a feat or two by not taking the xTWF line.
4. Sireth is really easy to get...

I stay ranged ~85% of the time, switching to melee to generate ki and/or to fight trash while MS/10k is on cooldown, but it isn't necessary most of the time, and even in elite raids, I have to be careful about when I cut loose or I WILL get aggro, no matter who is tanking. I keep hotbar 1 for ranged and hotbar 2 for melee, so I can switch quickly between sets of abilities.

Soloing a monkcher is the easiest thing in the world; just wait on big fights until MS is off timer, turn IPS and paralyzing on, and clear the room, but then, soloing a pure unarmed monk is pretty sweet, too.

12 fighter will NOT get you more DPS over even 12 monk, unarmed; you can make an argument if you want to TWF with khopesh, maybe, but you are really only upping your critical damage while dropping your base damage, and spending a ton of AP for the privilege. 2 Ranger isn't enough to earn you +10% off-hand proc.

I'm about to reroll my pure monk into 12 monk/4 ranger/4 fighter; 12 monk gives improved evasion, high base unarmed damage, access to monk epic feats, abundant step, and master of forms (you can take grandmaster as a selected feat); 4 ranger gives +10% off-hand proc, Ram's Might (+3 damage per hit), TWF for free, and wand usage; 4 fighter is mostly for feats, to get all of the xTWF line, Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, and Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave (to open up Overwhelming Critical), but also adds some weapon damage and I'll probably take Contemplation for more passive ki gen. I'm going Half-Elf for the Paladin Dilettante, to add crazy saves into the mix.

If you absolutely want to use khopesh/bastard sword/dwarven axe/whatever other non-monk weapon, 9 monk/8 fighter/3 ranger will still come out ahead of 12 fighter/6 monk/2 ranger, and have better defense, to boot.

[Kingault]

I have a 3rd life pure monk, unarmed, and a 1st life 12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter monkcher, and I'm here to tell you that the DPS isn't even close: Ranged wins, hands down.

I do keep a melee option on my monkcher, but there are a few points to bear in mind:

1. You do not have the AP to both max ranged and all the TWF enhancements; there just aren't enough AP to go around.
2. You DO have the AP to max ranged and get decent staff enhancements.
3. You can save a feat or two by not taking the xTWF line.
4. Sireth is really easy to get...

I stay ranged ~85% of the time, switching to melee to generate ki and/or to fight trash while MS/10k is on cooldown, but it isn't necessary most of the time, and even in elite raids, I have to be careful about when I cut loose or I WILL get aggro, no matter who is tanking. I keep hotbar 1 for ranged and hotbar 2 for melee, so I can switch quickly between sets of abilities.

Soloing a monkcher is the easiest thing in the world; just wait on big fights until MS is off timer, turn IPS and paralyzing on, and clear the room, but then, soloing a pure unarmed monk is pretty sweet, too.

12 fighter will NOT get you more DPS over even 12 monk, unarmed; you can make an argument if you want to TWF with khopesh, maybe, but you are really only upping your critical damage while dropping your base damage, and spending a ton of AP for the privilege. 2 Ranger isn't enough to earn you +10% off-hand proc.

I'm about to reroll my pure monk into 12 monk/4 ranger/4 fighter; 12 monk gives improved evasion, high base unarmed damage, access to monk epic feats, abundant step, and master of forms (you can take grandmaster as a selected feat); 4 ranger gives +10% off-hand proc, Ram's Might (+3 damage per hit), TWF for free, and wand usage; 4 fighter is mostly for feats, to get all of the xTWF line, Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, and Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave (to open up Overwhelming Critical), but also adds some weapon damage and I'll probably take Contemplation for more passive ki gen. I'm going Half-Elf for the Paladin Dilettante, to add crazy saves into the mix.

If you absolutely want to use khopesh/bastard sword/dwarven axe/whatever other non-monk weapon, 9 monk/8 fighter/3 ranger will still come out ahead of 12 fighter/6 monk/2 ranger, and have better defense, to boot.

Excellent advice, thanks. Now I just need to decide whether I want to try a monkcher, or stick with twfing, as I've been doing that for over two lives now...
Really, I know I'd prefer monkcher due to easier soloing, not being as likely to die(due to being ranged) if I can control my aggro, but I'm kinda sentimental regarding twfing because.. well... I've been doing it for a while now.
I should have asked another thing... What's leveling a monkcher like? I've only become level 9 or so since I TRed, so I'd like to know how I should go about in leveling it. I have a +20 lesser heart to use, so if you're willing, mind providing info on what level order you think I should take and such? I'd ask the same for 9/8/3 for twf, but I should be able to figure that out by myself.
Guess my main question, apart from, leveling, for now, is... what advantages does pure twfing have over monkchering, apart from not needing manyshot/10k stars, if any?

Thanks as well, SSFWEl, for your advice. I have to ask, though, would taking Fury for the... fury... more effective than Shiradi Champion, due to the burst?

[elg582]

Leveling a monkcher can be frustrating because you have to take the right classes in the right order, and that's not always the best choice for any particular level. Here's mine: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...1-U19-Monkcher

The 9/8/3 can be tricky because you need to save the last ranger level for 19 or 20 so you can get Master of Forms at 18.

The advantage of TWf'ing over ranged is that you have the AP to spare for more defensive enhancements; Arcane Archer eats up a ton of AP, especially through the racial tree.

And yes, fury is the ED for any arcane archer; deadly shot + adrenaline + manyshot with earth III/IV and overwhelming crit = lots of death. That's 5 arrows, base damage + 250, times 400%, +16 critical threat range, with x5 criticals.

[Kingault]

Leveling a monkcher can be frustrating because you have to take the right classes in the right order, and that's not always the best choice for any particular level. Here's mine: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...1-U19-Monkcher

The 9/8/3 can be tricky because you need to save the last ranger level for 19 or 20 so you can get Master of Forms at 18.

The advantage of TWf'ing over ranged is that you have the AP to spare for more defensive enhancements; Arcane Archer eats up a ton of AP, especially through the racial tree.

And yes, fury is the ED for any arcane archer; deadly shot + adrenaline + manyshot with earth III/IV and overwhelming crit = lots of death. That's 5 arrows, base damage + 250, times 400%, +16 critical threat range, with x5 criticals.

Hm, alright, I think I'll just use the +20 LR heart to go that build.
... Or I could level as a (non 9/8/3 due to my current levels) twf and then swap to that, to avoid some of the frustration you mentioned...
... I know I'd most likely enjoy a monkcher more, or at least do better as one, than twf, but I can't help but feel reluctant, as I've only played twfs, and well... I'll miss slashing with a khopesh...(heck I even got two pretty decent level 10 lootgen khopeshes today) hm.... Oh well, sometimes we have to push ourselves to do things we don't want to do.
...I could just make an alt for twfing if I feel so strongly about this, should I ever feel like it... hm...

After all, "Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place."

Thanks again.
...Let's see how I'll do.

...It's a shame that I only have +2 tomes' worth in each stat, and only 1 +5 tome, thanks to Mabar. Guess I'll save that for Wis.
Guess I'll have to adjust the stats in your build to fit. Going to stick with half elf because... well I kinda like half elf. Sure, the bow damage from elf would help a bit, but I kinda like the sneak attack bonuses.