Suggestion for a change in Epic Reincarnation for DC Casters

[Thrudh]

Could we replace enchant weapon with a +1 DC to a school of your choice? And if +3 DC to one school is deemed too powerful...

then maybe if you take it a second or third time, you have to pick a different school, so you could get +1 to 3 different schools, but not +3 to one school...

[redoubt]

Could we replace enchant weapon with a +1 DC to a school of your choice? And if +3 DC to one school is deemed too powerful...

then maybe if you take it a second or third time, you have to pick a different school, so you could get +1 to 3 different schools, but not +3 to one school...

I'd be more interested in this. Maybe even more. DC vs new monster saves have put a lot of dust on my enchant spec'd wizard. This might liven up a few builds.

[Fafnir]

Can we bring back epic wards to epic mobs? Then increase caster DCs any way you like.

[Da_Most_Shady]

Can we bring back epic wards to epic mobs? Then increase caster DCs any way you like.

So casters can be just buff and hold bots. No thank you.

[McFlay]

What's the big deal about not having dc's in epic tr? Would you really be happy if they gave you +3 more dcs for 3 epic trs, then raised the save of everything on EE by 3? That's all they'd end up doing. You should be happy they aren't forcing you into 3 epic tr's or fail as a dc caster.

[sephiroth1084]

/NOT SIGNED

We don't need more DC-boosts in the game, especially not ones locked behind 6 million XP! What we need is for the devs to take a long, hard look at the way their endgame is being played, and how it impacts characters with DC-based abilities, and then make changes accordingly.

1. Reduce saves across the board in the more ridiculous Epic Elite quests.
2. Change Death Ward and Freedom of Movement to work kind of like the changes to poison. Namely, DW would offer a bonus to saves vs. death effects (increasing based on caster level), prevent you from auto-failing on a rolled 1, provide immunity to negative levels, and act as either DR or absorption vs. other forms of negative energy. The duration would be shortened a bit. Do the same for FoM (keep immunity to slippery surfaces).
3. Introduce some more abilities that improve saves in the same way targeting particular ability subsets (Stunning, for example).

The result of 2, would be that abilities that target the same save wouldn't all get nerfed when the devs decide to improve saves to make Necro-ing your way through content a little more difficult, and wouldn't have to use the cudgel of overly-prevalent Death Ward simply turning off insta-kills in order to curb that sort of gameplay.

For instance, rather than either nerfing necromancers by giving everything DW that grants immunity, and instead of buffing a monster's Fort save to +60, where it is hurting all the characters using monk finishers, stuns, sunders, Disintegrate, etc... They could have a monster with a +50 Fort save, with a Death Ward buff that grants them a +10 vs. death effects, for a +60 vs. necromancers, which kind of satisfies everyone. Ideally, the new version would only prevent magical death effects (not Quivering Palm or Assassinate), though QP could maybe use a little adjusting in such a scenario.

[sirgog]

Not signed, for obvious reasons.

I do not want mob saves increasing by 1, let alone 3, which is the obvious short-term consequence of this idea.

[taurean430]

Lower mob saves by 3-5 in EE content unilaterally. Raise mob saves by 6-8 in EH content unilaterally. Bam, DC casters in all flavors have a chance in EE's and aren't overpowering in EH's.

[Candela90]

What's the big deal about not having dc's in epic tr? Would you really be happy if they gave you +3 more dcs for 3 epic trs, then raised the save of everything on EE by 3? That's all they'd end up doing. You should be happy they aren't forcing you into 3 epic tr's or fail as a dc caster.

This.
Its enough that EE dc caster HAVE to have 3 wizzies PLs to be good enough with spell pen. At least... Cause i have 3x wizzy, 3xfvs, all feats and items and still fail a lot.

[Teh_Troll]

Fighting power-creep with more power-creep only makes issues worse.

Right now we're in the insanely stupid situation where PMs are god-mode 95% of the time and balanced only in the hardest content in the game.

Seriously, bring a good PM into TOR or an EE high-road quest, you'll know what I'm talking about.

With that said . . . when the Tablecloth was bugged and stacking for two more DC I didn't really notice a difference. I don't think 1-2 more DC would matter as much, and it might actually give me incentive to ETR my wizard as right now there is ZERO REASON for me to do so.

[kned225]

What's the big deal about not having dc's in epic tr? Would you really be happy if they gave you +3 more dcs for 3 epic trs, then raised the save of everything on EE by 3? That's all they'd end up doing. You should be happy they aren't forcing you into 3 epic tr's or fail as a dc caster.

Sadly, this is exactly what would happen. Would only serve to further widen the gap between vets and newer players

[Teh_Troll]

What's the big deal about not having dc's in epic tr? Would you really be happy if they gave you +3 more dcs for 3 epic trs, then raised the save of everything on EE by 3? That's all they'd end up doing. You should be happy they aren't forcing you into 3 epic tr's or fail as a dc caster.

The issue right now is there is ZERO reason at all to ETR a DC caster.

[Lonnbeimnech]

i wonder if the unattainable DC requirements for EE was a compromise on the whole 'nerf casters into haste botter for my melee' / hard to kill / epic ward etc.

[Thrudh]

Not signed, for obvious reasons.

I do not want mob saves increasing by 1, let alone 3, which is the obvious short-term consequence of this idea.

Well, we'd only want this if the devs didn't raise saves to compensate... +1 to 3 different schools wouldn't be overpowering, but it would be SOMETHING... Right now, DC casters get nothing.

[Teh_Troll]

i wonder if the unattainable DC requirements for EE was a compromise on the whole 'nerf casters into haste botter for my melee' / hard to kill / epic ward etc.

The DCs are attainable. Try harder.

[mikarddo]

Well, we'd only want this if the devs didn't raise saves to compensate... +1 to 3 different schools wouldn't be overpowering, but it would be SOMETHING... Right now, DC casters get nothing.

10% shorter cooldown sure isnt "nothing" for a DC caster. I would argue that its more usefull for a DC caster than for a Shiradi Spammer as the Shiradi is spamming tiny spells non-stop nomatter while the DC caster uses large effect spells where timing is more important. Maybe a little less hyperbole would be good.

[Teh_Troll]

10% shorter cooldown sure isnt "nothing" for a DC caster. I would argue that its more usefull for a DC caster than for a Shiradi Spammer as the Shiradi is spamming tiny spells non-stop nomatter while the DC caster uses large effect spells where timing is more important. Maybe a little less hyperbole would be good.

It's not wroth 18 million XP. Not in a million years.

[sephiroth1084]

The issue right now is there is ZERO reason at all to ETR a DC caster.

True. I think a more significant cooldown reduction for non-damaging spells might help, but it's hard to have a universal ability that both reduces the cooldown on, say, Finger of Death or Mass Hold, and that for Wail of the Banshee and Power Words, without either leaving one set unaffected, or the other tremendously improved. Maybe, a -1 second cooldown for all spells with a cooldown of less than 10 seconds, and a -2 or -3 second cooldown for all spells with a duration of less than 1 minute, and a -10 second cooldown for all spells with a longer cooldown than that?

Or add rider effects to spells? Necromancy spells all gain Cause Fear, Evocations all gain a lingering effect, etc... that somehow scales? SP cost reduction? There just aren't a lot of variables to play with for that, without simply adding new effects, which we should get, but are hard to envision and implement.

Well, we'd only want this if the devs didn't raise saves to compensate... +1 to 3 different schools wouldn't be overpowering, but it would be SOMETHING... Right now, DC casters get nothing.

You've been playing this game long enough to know that such a bonus would necessarily result in a similar increase in monster saves somewhere.

10% shorter cooldown sure isnt "nothing" for a DC caster. I would argue that its more usefull for a DC caster than for a Shiradi Spammer as the Shiradi is spamming tiny spells non-stop nomatter while the DC caster uses large effect spells where timing is more important. Maybe a little less hyperbole would be good.

10% off of a 7 second cooldown is a reduction of less than 1 second. I'd call that nothing. 10% off of a 30 second cooldown is 3 seconds. I'd call that basically nothing, even if it weren't stocked behind almost 20 million XP.

[Vellrad]

Can we bring back epic wards to epic mobs? Then increase caster DCs any way you like.

As long as DRs are increased by hundredfold, and mobs gets PRR rating of 2*CR.

[Vellrad]

I would like devs to take different approach on DCs.

Meaning they won't increase saves each time when DCs go up.
This would mean someone stacking all possible sources of DCs for single school would have much too much.
Instead, having past lifes increasing DCs should mean you no longer need to have feats/items for said schools, and can use them to boost other schools, meaning, you can have good DCs in more than 2 schools.