For the love of Pete, enough with these terrible designs - karma

[patang01]

Tying karma to specific spheres is silly. If off destiny leveling now is a terrible mindnumbing process, then imagine doing so for tree times the amount of XP (roughly 2 mill to cap a destiny right?).

I just don't understand why karma has to be tied to a specific sphere. Shouldn't it just be a matter of hitting 6 million points (that is 6 mill xp)? I mean the only thing you need to heroic reincarnate is to hit level 20 and have the heart of wood. Done. Plus you always level in a enhancement that is in perfect synergy with your class.

With off destiny karma leveling in a sphere you're completely out of sync with your class, for 6 million points. So if you try to level off destines at the same time as you gain karma you will effectively prolong the entire process. And since you can only gain valor (so far) by completing sagas it's highly ineffective to try to gain karma in anything BUT the saga quests. Even if you find other quests that are better to level in (like von3)

This is just awful design. Worse then regular off destiny leveling.

Turbine cannot have created a worse incentive for anyone to want to ER more then a few times and there's no real point even contemplation something like a 'completionist' or unlocking all extra fate points (1 for every 4 ER).

This is fail from the beginning.

Untie fate points from destinies to allow people to level as they like. Put it on it's own XP track.
Untie Karma from spheres. 6 million points is 6 million points. If it only takes 6 mill point to ER, then why should it matter if it's done in A sphere or B sphere?

[DrakHar]

Tying karma to specific spheres is silly. If off destiny leveling now is a terrible mindnumbing process, then imagine doing so for tree times the amount of XP (roughly 2 mill to cap a destiny right?).

I just don't understand why karma has to be tied to a specific sphere. Shouldn't it just be a matter of hitting 6 million points (that is 6 mill xp)? I mean the only thing you need to heroic reincarnate is to hit level 20 and have the heart of wood. Done. Plus you always level in a enhancement that is in perfect synergy with your class.

With off destiny karma leveling in a sphere you're completely out of sync with your class, for 6 million points. So if you try to level off destines at the same time as you gain karma you will effectively prolong the entire process. And since you can only gain valor (so far) by completing sagas it's highly ineffective to try to gain karma in anything BUT the saga quests. Even if you find other quests that are better to level in (like von3)

This is just awful design. Worse then regular off destiny leveling.

Turbine cannot have created a worse incentive for anyone to want to ER more then a few times and there's no real point even contemplation something like a 'completionist' or unlocking all extra fate points (1 for every 4 ER).

This is fail from the beginning.

Untie fate points from destinies to allow people to level as they like. Put it on it's own XP track.
Untie Karma from spheres. 6 million points is 6 million points. If it only takes 6 mill point to ER, then why should it matter if it's done in A sphere or B sphere?

Then heroic TR into a class, and then ETR and grind out all you want from a sphere, I guess.

But doesn't it cap when you cap just one destiny?
If so, for example, melee would be easy except for arcane.

[patang01]

Then heroic TR into a class, and then ETR and grind out all you want from a sphere, I guess.

But doesn't it cap when you cap just one destiny?
If so, for example, melee would be easy except for arcane.

Why would I ever want to start collecting gear for a class I would seldom use that is completely different from say my fighter?

That's a lot of either BTA or BTC type gear just to get a small benefit from a class I have no desire to play on that toon for a majority of my time.

What a horrible waste of my entertainment time. Forcing someone to re-level as a completely different class just to do a sphere?

There's just no logic in circumventing terrible design by an even longer trip when a simple and better design fixes it. Like untying karma from the actual sphere.

DONE. Everyone can continue leveling any way they want but those who just don't want to waste their time gagging themselves on poor entertainment value continue to have fun.

[Teh_Troll]

People will either mindlessly karma farm whatever "Impossible Demands" is determined to be best or quit playing all together.

The best thing about the ETR system is that all in all it's pretty terrible so if you don't bother with the hamster wheel you're really not missing much.

[patang01]

People will either mindlessly karma farm whatever "Impossible Demands" is determined to be best or quit playing all together.

The best thing about the ETR system is that all in all it's pretty terrible so if you don't bother with the hamster wheel you're really not missing much.

But then what? How long am I going to have to wait before Turbine adds something of value for my high level toons? Sure - I can take off a month or 2 doing something else because this process is as appealing as pealing paint, but what else do they have lined up that will give me the reason to stick with them?
The latest xpack was a gigantic dud. And they're building U20 to have a similar if not worse effect. 2 more quest, 2 unique bad items and 2 good augments (only pulled on EE). I just don't get where the reason is for me to do this while waiting for something better.

[Raoull]

People will either mindlessly karma farm whatever "Impossible Demands" is determined to be best or quit playing all together.

The best thing about the ETR system is that all in all it's pretty terrible so if you don't bother with the hamster wheel you're really not missing much.

I don't understand the "grind until I am ideal" concept.... ideal to do... what?

I like the new epic TR system. The rewards don't have to be that great, because the sacrifice is relatively small compared to heroic TR. You don't lose destiny XP, merely epic levels. The first few levels will come back fast, and characters will quickly be back into a position to play top end content. The differences between a lvl 28 toon and a lvl 24 toon aren't all that large. And even just playing in a single destiny, there are 9 epic lives to go through before XP progress is wasted. It is totally unlike the twist of fate grind where you have to purposefully gimp your toon in order to continue making progress.

So just play epic toons, sometimes if they have their XP capped and enough Karma.... epic TR them for a small bonus, and to make it so that XP can again be earned.

Not grind grind grind until they're all fleshed out and then do.... what exactly?

[Teh_Troll]

Not grind grind grind until they're all fleshed out and then do.... what exactly?

Now? There really isn't anything to do. End-game is done in DDO.

As for the rest of your argument . . . you find grind that really doesn't give you ANY benefit to be worth it at all?

ETR is weaksauce. At least heroic has some benefits and honestly . . . the heroic game is a better game anyway.

[Thrudh]

The rewards don't have to be that great, because the sacrifice is relatively small compared to heroic TR. You don't lose destiny XP, merely epic levels. The first few levels will come back fast, and characters will quickly be back into a position to play top end content. The differences between a lvl 28 toon and a lvl 24 toon aren't all that large.

This is a good point...

But I don't think it's a good idea to make us live in off-destinies at all.

We've ALREADY complained about it... so I'm not sure why they are doing it again.

I'll just get a few past lives in destinies that match my character, and not bother with the other ones.

[Xaenith]

People will either mindlessly karma farm whatever "Impossible Demands" is determined to be best or quit playing all together.

The best thing about the ETR system is that all in all it's pretty terrible so if you don't bother with the hamster wheel you're really not missing much.

Unfortunately, what does that leave for the game?

There is no point in playing endgame because the loot sucks, and there is no point TRing because the bonuses suck.

So, why bother playing at all? Neither hamster wheel is particularly appealing right now.

[Havader]

Yes yes there is no point in playing anymore, I mean they make me actually play a class for the past life feat. Then they expect me to do a heroic TR after Epic Tring if I want to run a class through its corresponding destiny. That's just to much work. Why would I stop playing the one class I love just to get karma for an off sphere? Those epic otto's boxes should be free, heroic ones to so I can get everything I want without working for it. Hell sell tomes of past lives, except those should be free also. Sorry I just couldn't help it with all the whining from people who don't want to play, but want all the perks of hard work. Seriously I have leveled off destinies and sure it hurts, but with twists and decent character design/playing it is manageable. Granted Zerging on EE is definitely not something I would want to try, but if people won't play with you when you are leveling an off destiny in quests then maybe it is time to find a better guild or playing companions.

[Teh_Troll]

Unfortunately, what does that leave for the game?

There is no point in playing endgame because the loot sucks, and there is no point TRing because the bonuses suck.

So, why bother playing at all? Neither hamster wheel is particularly appealing right now.

I'm down to about 10-20 quests a week. I literally make more troll-posts a day than I run quests.

I don't know what's left, but I got 8 months left on a VIP sub so might as well sign in and sneak-hump halflings in the harbor.

[oradafu]

[erethizon]

Why would I ever want to start collecting gear for a class I would seldom use that is completely different from say my fighter?

That's a lot of either BTA or BTC type gear just to get a small benefit from a class I have no desire to play on that toon for a majority of my time.

What a horrible waste of my entertainment time. Forcing someone to re-level as a completely different class just to do a sphere?

There's just no logic in circumventing terrible design by an even longer trip when a simple and better design fixes it. Like untying karma from the actual sphere.

DONE. Everyone can continue leveling any way they want but those who just don't want to waste their time gagging themselves on poor entertainment value continue to have fun.

We have always had to level as a new class to get a different heroic destiny. I know you get hung up on this "enhancements are just right for the class you are playing during heroic" stuff while you speak about off-destiny leveling as being so different, but this is just like heroic leveling. If you want a cleric past life you TR into a cleric. If you want a divine epic destiny past life you first TR into a cleric or paladin. Then you get the perfect synergy with your class that you crave so much. They do give you the option of staying a fighter if you wish (the equivalent to getting a cleric past life by TRing into a fighter but using the cleric enhancement tree) but as you have pointed out that is a bad idea so naturally you wouldn't do something so silly. You would instead TR into a cleric first so you could earn your karma in a main destiny.

As for why you would want to start collecting gear for a class you don't care about the answer is simple. Don't collect the gear. The main reason you hear people talk about how effortless Epic Hard quest are is because the people running them are in maxed destinies with great gear. My main plays as all the classes (triple completionist in training) and thus does not have nearly enough space to hold a ton of gear for each class. When I play heroic content virtually everything I wear all the way up to level 20 has a minimum level between 5 and 9. By the time I get to epic content in that gear Epic Hard is indeed somewhat challenging. Since I know you like to claim that you enjoy a challenge (I have my doubts because I am sure you are going to shoot down this challenge-causing proposal) simply don't bother collecting any gear for you divine class. Wear what you find. And if you really like a challenge don't use the auction house either. If you like a challenge you will find the game to be more enjoyable even on EH and you will save a ton of time farming for gear that you are not going to keep after you are finished with the divine past lives.