Trying to get insight on EE capable q-staff build

[cave_diver]

Would like to hear from others who have played q-staff builds to get insight before I post a build. I will be tr'ing on of my toons that will focus around Sireth. I have quite a few questions:

- Dex or Str build...both have advantages & disadvantages. With Str I can take Overwhelming Critical, with dex my reflex saves will be over the top.
- Most builds I see are 13rogue/6monk/1druid or 12monk/6rogue/2fighter(or druid) advantages/disadvantages? Any other styles I should be looking at & why?
- Race, I've seen h-orcs for str builds & halflings for dex builds? Any others, obviously human for the extra feat/healing amp is always good.
- Must have feats for str builds & dex builds?
-Anyway I could fit in manyshot or Quivering Palm (obviously must be 15 monk & Wis as main stat - 15monk/5rogue) into the build?


I'm sure Ill have more questions but this is good enough to start.

Thanks in advance.

[Darkrok]

Would like to hear from others who have played q-staff builds to get insight before I post a build. I will be tr'ing on of my toons that will focus around Sireth. I have quite a few questions:

- Dex or Str build...both have advantages & disadvantages. With Str I can take Overwhelming Critical, with dex my reflex saves will be over the top.
- Most builds I see are 13rogue/6monk/1druid or 12monk/6rogue/2fighter(or druid) advantages/disadvantages? Any other styles I should be looking at & why?
- Race, I've seen h-orcs for str builds & halflings for dex builds? Any others, obviously human for the extra feat/healing amp is always good.
- Must have feats for str builds & dex builds?
-Anyway I could fit in manyshot or Quivering Palm (obviously must be 15 monk & Wis as main stat - 15monk/5rogue) into the build?


I'm sure Ill have more questions but this is good enough to start.

Thanks in advance.

Overwhelming Critical is such a huge addition to damage that it's really hard to pass up even if you're not strength-based. I think the only way I'd consider completely dumping strength would be in the situation where I'm TR'ing at 20...in that case it could certainly make sense as Overwhelming Critical isn't an issue.

13 rogue and 12 monk both give improved evasion which is why you see those builds. 2 druid provides that insane doublestrike boost as well as access to empower healing, heal skill, etc. 13 rogue gets kip up which is probably one of the stronger core enhancements in TA or HM. Honestly though you need 5+ levels in either rogue or monk. If your larger class is monk you need at least 1 rogue level (for the 15% bonus to attack speed with quarterstaves. You can leave out any monk but I'm not sure it's worth doing so...I'd probably go at least to 3 on any build for Lighting the Candle.

You're pretty dead-on with the races...more on that in a minute. One other thing to keep in mind with Humans (and Half Elves) is that you can double-boost, popping a doublestrike or haste boost along with your Human Versatility: Damage boost. This can be fairly insane with the damage output during those 20 seconds.

Feats are pretty simple: Power Attack, Improved Critical, Cleave, Great Cleave, THF, iTHF, gTHF as your main feats. Dodge can be nice for some mitigation, various tactical feats (Improved Trip, Stunning Blow, Improved Sunder, etc) if you feel you can get the DC's to make them work. If you have a ton of feats available Whirlwind can be fun as well but it's so expensive about the only way it would work is on a build with heavy investment in fighter levels.

Fitting in Manyshot would be pretty easy. 13 rogue, 6 ranger, 1 fighter. You lose the additional qstaff damage from Henshin Mystic, Shadow Veil if you'd chosen to go that way in Ninja Spy, etc but you gain Manyshot and if you dip into Deepwood sniper you'd get Exposing Strike which is an outstanding move with all of the rogue sneak attack damage we already have. This build could front-load the ranger levels and comfortably go TWF in the mid-levels if you had better weapons for that style (ie someone with a Sireth but no other good quarterstaves) since you get the TWF line from ranger for free.

I've been thinking quite a bit about the Quivering Palm angle. I'm not crazy about it as for a good QP you need to go wisdom-based and heavy into monk but if you do that then you'd really want to be using Stunning Fist which = unarmed. If that doesn't concern you at all...if you're just looking for fun with Quivering Palm...I think I'd go Half Orc with 16 monk, 2 fighter, 2 rogue. HOrc's get boosts to THF style. They get boosts to sunder (and Quivering Palm). And if you've got a +5 strength tome they can spend 10 build points on strength to get to 18 and qualify for Overwhelming Critical without dumping any Wisdom. That means having 10-16 points spent in Wisdom PLUS all level-ups. The 2 rogue gets you massive skill points at level 1 and at some mid-level for catch-up purposes (1 rogue is required anyway and 3 fighter/17 monk give very little). 2 Fighter gets you +3 to all tactics (including Quivering Palm), a cheap Haste boost, and Extra Action Boosts. Assuming you're overgeared for heroics saving the second fighter level and rogue level for 19 and 20 respectively would make a lot of sense. You'll get by without the rogue's skill point catch up and you won't need the +3 to all tactics until EE's. That means QP at level 17.

[Miow]

About OC the above is right it is nice to have. Also with +5 tomes becoming available(mabar) and a starting 16 in strength, a couple level ups is sufficient to qualify at epic levels.

[Arkadios]

Darkrok was a bit off on the imp evasion levels it's actually 10 for rogue (though because it's a bonus feat you could take at 13) and 9 for monk. Also tier 5 tempest gives imp evasion.

I've got a human STR based 13rog/6mnk/1rgr (I'd prefer druid in that position and will probably TR at some point to change it, I LR +20'd it before checking my alignment :/) I've got power attack, cleave, great cleave, toughness, THF,ITHF,GTHF, Imp crit bludgeoning, OC. Others can pretty much be personalised.

[Darkrok]

Darkrok was a bit off on the imp evasion levels it's actually 10 for rogue (though because it's a bonus feat you could take at 13) and 9 for monk. Also tier 5 tempest gives imp evasion.

I've got a human STR based 13rog/6mnk/1rgr (I'd prefer druid in that position and will probably TR at some point to change it, I LR +20'd it before checking my alignment :/) I've got power attack, cleave, great cleave, toughness, THF,ITHF,GTHF, Imp crit bludgeoning, OC. Others can pretty much be personalised.

You can definitely take it at 10 rogue though I would take Opportunist first, hence the 13. I'd say Toughness is optional now but everything else in that feat list is pretty central to the build.

[Inoukchuk]

Would like to hear from others who have played q-staff builds to get insight before I post a build. I will be tr'ing on of my toons that will focus around Sireth. I have quite a few questions:

- Dex or Str build...both have advantages & disadvantages. With Str I can take Overwhelming Critical, with dex my reflex saves will be over the top.
- Most builds I see are 13rogue/6monk/1druid or 12monk/6rogue/2fighter(or druid) advantages/disadvantages? Any other styles I should be looking at & why?
- Race, I've seen h-orcs for str builds & halflings for dex builds? Any others, obviously human for the extra feat/healing amp is always good.
- Must have feats for str builds & dex builds?
-Anyway I could fit in manyshot or Quivering Palm (obviously must be 15 monk & Wis as main stat - 15monk/5rogue) into the build?


I'm sure Ill have more questions but this is good enough to start.

Thanks in advance.

Elf is also viable for the following reasons:

Dex based, but no penalty to STR so easier to qualify for OC
Dragonmarks allow for displacement (extended) + shadow veil + dodge which is very nice damage avoidance

Druid is often splashed for ram's might, access to emp heal, and shillelagh, but shillelagh doesn't work on Sireth so that's a personal call. If you splash 2 you can also take nice enhancements, but that takes away from other nice enhancements on a very tight AP build.

The upside to a STR build is OC and easier access to primary stat boosts (primal scream, ram's might, etc) for a bit more damage. The downside to a str build becomes saves, which will suffer without paly levels, or very high dex, or racial bonuses. I detailed 2 theory builds (haven't actually played a staff build yet), and will soon (tm) TR one of my toons into the Mr Sticky Buddy build. The elven variant would swap in extend spell at 9, move emp heal to 21 and drop master of forms which isn't strictly necessary. That build details the differences between a STR build (linked in that thread). For EE I think survivability out weighs a little damage difference, and without some outside boosts like DM or PS you're unlikely to have usable tactics anyway.

Another way to approach this is to go for henshin tier 5s for level drains and void strikes. The henshin tier 5s IMO are superior, but the rest of the tree is notably inferior, so it's a trade off but might be worthwhile in EE. Because I prefer the TA tree I don't take lighting the candle on my builds.

[Jasparion]

Ive got a Fighter life coming up so Im wondering how I can go a Q-Staff build here, while also having Bow Strength and Manyshot.

Im figuring 8 Fighter, 6 Rogue, 6 Monk.

There should be more than enough feats and I can probably even manage Precision and Imp Crit Ranged, while getting all the 2H fighting feats and Power Attack.

Halfling and Dex could be an option, but Im not sure if I want to do that. I may be better off going Human for HAmp, but if I have the AP I could go HElf and take Cleric dilly and scroll heal.

I dont own HOrc so that is not an option, unless they offer a 50% off sale.

[Arlathen]

I've been thinking quite a bit about the Quivering Palm angle. I'm not crazy about it as for a good QP you need to go wisdom-based and heavy into monk but if you do that then you'd really want to be using Stunning Fist which = unarmed. If that doesn't concern you at all...if you're just looking for fun with Quivering Palm...I think I'd go Half Orc with 16 monk, 2 fighter, 2 rogue. HOrc's get boosts to THF style. They get boosts to sunder (and Quivering Palm). And if you've got a +5 strength tome they can spend 10 build points on strength to get to 18 and qualify for Overwhelming Critical without dumping any Wisdom. That means having 10-16 points spent in Wisdom PLUS all level-ups. The 2 rogue gets you massive skill points at level 1 and at some mid-level for catch-up purposes (1 rogue is required anyway and 3 fighter/17 monk give very little). 2 Fighter gets you +3 to all tactics (including Quivering Palm), a cheap Haste boost, and Extra Action Boosts. Assuming you're overgeared for heroics saving the second fighter level and rogue level for 19 and 20 respectively would make a lot of sense. You'll get by without the rogue's skill point catch up and you won't need the +3 to all tactics until EE's. That means QP at level 17.

This is quite a promising build - if you can get that QP DC up high enough. Everything Darkrok suggests here is good, but you might be wanting Fighter PLs, run around in GM Water Stance, take Great Wisdom epic Feats, choose a Destiny with access to +Wisdom, use a Dun'Robar ring for Shatter +10, use a Bear Cloak for +6 Exc Combat Mastery....

Building a worthwhile Quivering Palm DC is no different to building a Necromancy DC on a Wizard - go all out or go home

[Ayseifn]

Building a worthwhile Quivering Palm DC is no different to building a Necromancy DC on a Wizard - go all out or go home

It's not really that bad is it? Was planning out a 15/4/1 PDK monk for QP but with only starting 16 wis, +3 wis tome, most levelups and only 2 fighter PLs I could still hit 72 pretty easily, if I went all in it'd be over 80.

[Theolin]

I went 6 rogue / 6 monk / 6 fighter ... last 2 whatever you like (I choose Rogue)
Dex build, think it was 16: D/Con 14: W/I & got to 13 Str with a +1 tome
Feats: PA/cleaves, Dodge/mobility, ICBludg, + others (whirlwind if you want)
Enhancements: SD1, Shadow Veil, Rogue staff & 2 levels in monk staff and Kensi
In Legendary Dreadnought I can spam cleaves all day & not run out between the feats, enhancements, & LD
Fairly easy to get 70+ AC & PPR with 25% dodge and then blur & incorp on top
I twisted in Healing spring, fast healing, & cocoon between those & monk light path attack rarely need outside healing if not doing EEs.