DDOGamer: Power to the People!

[geoffhanna]

I love the smell of victory in the morning.

-> It smells like ... victory!

[Havok.cry]

It is no where close to victory. Only a single demand was met, and all others were responded to with a "We don't know/haven't decided yet" Which ttypically means they are leaving it as is. The most important of the issues still unresolved that is a deal breaker for many is the bind status of the commendations of valor.

[Impaqt]

I dont think that word means what you think it means.

[Qhualor]

Sorry to report that demands were not met and we didn't actually win. As Havok said, there is still some things unanswered. The protest continues on Wayfinder until we get a more definite answer on bind status for Comms, cost for hearts of wood, drop rates for Comms and if we will be forced to run sagas for hearts of wood.

[Drwaz99]

I don't consider it a victory either.

We only received one temporary concession: Tokens will stick around, for a short time.

All the rest was a minor acknowledgement and a pass off to a later date.

[Memnir]

I feel like Glin said something only because of the media coverage. He actually said very little beyond a lot of soothing sounding phrases and double-talk.


No, I don't think we "won" much of anything beyond the notion that tokens will still be able to buy hearts. We have no word that they've changed their minds on Sagas. No notion that tokens will still drop in U20. Nothing solid, and a lot of fuzzy phrasing that leaves a lot open for interpretation or "clarification" later on. Glin was pretty masterful at saying what sounded like what people wanted to hear, without really saying much of anything.



Hell, I hate TRing. I've made no bones about that. For me, this isn't about anything that will affect me and my game habits overmuch. But, I hate that their game design is coming to this - and honestly fear this will be the trend. So, I need to say something. Do something now. Draw the line now. I've bit my tongue a lot over the past two years' worth of changes... but this Saga idea is one of their worst, and I don't think they see that. This is a natural outreach of Quest Ransack - the Devs determining what quests we do, and making DDO a on-rails kind of game, where player options are further and further reduced by new game mechanics and design choices.


So, I'm not leaving the Bridge until we have some real answers, and not just nice sounding placation. This is bigger then just me, and that's why I feel the continued need to be a part of saying, "No. No, this will not do."


And I think you declaring victory is far, far too early.

[Dandonk]

I dont think that word means what you think it means.

This.

[geoffhanna]

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

[Memnir]

And declaring victory after one small battle does not mean the war is won. We won a small concession in that Glin addressed the issue, most likely because the game was looking pretty bad in the gaming press. But, in doing so, Glin actually said very little and did not satisfy a lot of the concerns people have.



You want to declare victory, cool. Me, I disagree. And I've not left the Bridge, nor do I plan to unless we can chalk up a real win.

[Silken-Akira]

I feel like Glin said something only because of the media coverage. He actually said very little beyond a lot of soothing sounding phrases and double-talk.


No, I don't think we "won" much of anything beyond the notion that tokens will still be able to buy hearts. We have no word that they've changed their minds on Sagas. No notion that tokens will still drop in U20. Nothing solid, and a lot of fuzzy phrasing that leaves a lot open for interpretation or "clarification" later on. Glin was pretty masterful at saying what sounded like what people wanted to hear, without really saying much of anything.



Hell, I hate TRing. I've made no bones about that. For me, this isn't about anything that will affect me and my game habits overmuch. But, I hate that their game design is coming to this - and honestly fear this will be the trend. So, I need to say something. Do something now. Draw the line now. I've bit my tongue a lot over the past two years' worth of changes... but this Saga idea is one of their worst, and I don't think they see that. This is a natural outreach of Quest Ransack - the Devs determining what quests we do, and making DDO a on-rails kind of game, where player options are further and further reduced by new game mechanics and design choices.


So, I'm not leaving the Bridge until we have some real answers, and not just nice sounding placation. This is bigger then just me, and that's why I feel the continued need to be a part of saying, "No. No, this will not do."


And I think you declaring victory is far, far too early.

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

Sorry but have to agree with Memnir this is way too early to declare it as a win. And even taken seriously what maybe is hinted at that might be won it is not even a delicious one. It is bigger then just us individually, i for one throw moeny outy my door with this game far too quickly. but that is my own choice/fault. What they are trying to do will impact far too many other players and I have a too hard time to be ok with that.

[HungarianRhapsody]

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

Glin said that they're going to go ahead and do what they planned to do even though we don't like it. They're just going to delay the implementation a little while. That doesn't seem like any "victory" at all to me.

Telling us why they're going to do the thing that we don't like is not at all the same as telling us that they're going to change their mind and not do the thing we don't like.

[Satyriasys]

And declaring victory after one small battle does not mean the war is won. We won a small concession in that Glin addressed the issue, most likely because the game was looking pretty bad in the gaming press. But, in doing so, Glin actually said very little and did not satisfy a lot of the concerns people have.



You want to declare victory, cool. Me, I disagree. And I've not left the Bridge, nor do I plan to unless we can chalk up a real win.

Looks like you've been bedazzled by Glin's snide corporate doublespeak. We didn't win anything. His whole post was a vapid placation. So hes going to leave hearts in the 12 for "a little while" You think he cares about our demands? We are nothing to him but insects which only exist to nourish his corporate overlords.

[Satyriasys]

Meant to quote geoffhanna, sorry Memnir. It won't let me edit my post.

[Nascoe]

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

This is a win as you say Geoff.

And for everyone who mentions that nothing was won, remember its the second win in the war too (after making Turbine rethink their first ideas to take away all ED progress with each TR/Epic TR).

The players did bring Turbine to retreat on this one, and not only is it an important one, it also sets a precedent for the future.

Sure, there is still enough to "fight" over (making them BtA, making it possible to earn Hearts without running a character up to lvl 22-24 to be able to do a saga, etc), but the tone is set.

[soloist12]

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

A win over naive people that can't see through the colored bubbles, perhaps.

[HungarianRhapsody]

This is a win as you say Geoff.

And for everyone who mentions that nothing was won, remember its the second win in the war too (after making Turbine rethink their first ideas to take away all ED progress with each TR/Epic TR).

The players did bring Turbine to retreat on this one, and not only is it an important one, it also sets a precedent for the future.

Sure, there is still enough to "fight" over (making them BtA, making it possible to earn Hearts without running a character up to lvl 22-24 to be able to do a saga, etc), but the tone is set.

I wish that were true. This isn't a victory; this is Turbine's standard operating procedure for the past couple of years.

Step 1: introduce something so ASTONISHINGLY horrible on Llamaville that the entire Forums population rises up against it in anger.
Step 2: dial that back a little bit (but not too much)
Step 3: sit back and enjoy the cheers of admiration from the Forums because of the "improvement" to the change


Example -
Turbine: "We're going to come to everyone's home and stab them with a broadsword."
Forums: "We dislike this idea and do not want you to stab us."
Turbine: "On second thought, we're going to just come to everyone's home and stab them with a pocketknife."
Forums: "VICTORY IS OURS!!!!"

See also:
Chattering Ring to make Cannith crafted Greater Halfling Bane introduced to make Purified Eberron Dragonshards more acceptable
Hard to Kill introduced to make the Wail nerf more acceptable
etc.

[HungarianRhapsody]

remember its the second win in the war too

One other thing - when Turbine makes people feel like Turbine is at war with its players, then perhaps the design team needs to scrap the entire idea and start over again.

[Antheal]

I love the smell of victory in the morning.

-> It smells like ... victory!

Which part was the "victory", exactly? I must have missed it.

[Da_Most_Shady]

Wow some people get excited over the smallest things. Guess it is good to be that way but for me, and many others before me, this was in no way a victory. It was more like winning one round in a 12 round championship boxing match.

[Scraap]

If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

Savor it.

Things are not perfect but then they never are.

*cough*

They won't. They'll tone it down, maybe even as far as knocking a zero off, and count on folks being more interested in not-staying-mad than seeing-things-improve while they continue to profit off their predecessors efforts while simultaneously convincing themselves they know better, and the core system remains in place.