Lots of time and effort spent this weekend on the new hearts - very premature doom

[slarden]

And for good reason. I think taking away the existing token trade-in is a mistake.

However, this is Lam. How many times have we seen "These are placeholder values and not final values" after the nerdrage started.

So after numerous threads, forum rule violations, occupy stormreach movements, pictures of people's canceled subs and more doom than I've ever seen it will be funny when Turbine comes back and says "These were just placeholder values" next week like they've said so many times in the past.

I would still like to see the token of the twelve option remain, but this is the most irrational doom I've ever seen. Isn't U20 over one month away? Give them a chance to respond, 10000 more pages of doom isn't going to help.

[redspecter23]

And for good reason. I think taking away the existing token trade-in is a mistake.

However, this is Lam. How many times have we seen "These are placeholder values and not final values" after the nerdrage started.

So after numerous threads, forum rule violations, occupy stormreach movements, pictures of people's canceled subs and more doom than I've ever seen it will be funny when Turbine comes back and says "These were just placeholder values" next week like they've said so many times in the past.

I would still like to see the token of the twelve option remain, but this is the most irrational doom I've ever seen. Isn't U20 over one month away? Give them a chance to respond, 10000 more pages of doom isn't going to help.

One has to wonder if a response of "placeholder values" would be because of the forum rage? Or would they have done it anyway? If they honestly were placeholder values, then they could have just said that in the release notes. Communication is not one of Turbine's strengths.

There is no way for us to know if an excuse of placeholder values would have ever come to pass if there were no forum rage at all. Perhaps they really were thinking that 17 coms per saga was justified. Suggesting otherwise is just as presumptuous as those that think Turbine honestly thinks those numbers are appropriate. We can't know what they were thinking and this is what leads to forum rage.

Had they immediately come out and said that these were placeholder values, some of the rage would have been leveled off. If they had also stated that they were intending for X sagas to be an average number required for a heart, that would have been even better. If they also commented on the BtC status and how old hearts would transfer to the new system, that would have been golden. Instead we get typical Turbine silence for now. Around here the main cause of continued rage is silence.

[Qhualor]

well, seeing as how very little has ever changed when it goes from Lammania to Live, I think the people who have been around long enough and follow changes to the game before they hit Live know that the only way the devs will listen is if there is a public outburst like what is going on now. you said it yourself there is more doom than you have ever seen. its gotten to that point with so much bad decision making on Turbines part and the constant bugs that people are starting to get really tired of it and acting out to be heard. the forums lighting up, the Occupy Stormreach movement and canceled subs just shows how many people are against the proposed TR changes. if they do change it, it will be because of all of this. if it was just the usual little ranting we normally see, the change would just get pushed through as is.

[Arnhelm]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think now, regardless of the outrage, regardless of the possible changes to number of CoV's required for a TR heart, this change is going live.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Turbine will listen to the players.

One thing for me is certain - If this change goes live, Turbine loses any future money from me.

[Ryiah]

How many times have we seen "These are placeholder values and not final values" after the nerdrage started.

How many times have they stated this and actually meant it? Lamannia is constantly proclaimed as a server to preview things to make adjustments before going live but very rarely do any real changes get made before the content is shoved to live.

[Teh_Troll]

Isn't U20 over one month away? Give them a chance to respond, 10000 more pages of doom isn't going to help.

Turbine only responds to torches and pitchforks.

They need to think they'll lose money, it's the only thing they react to.

The response is reasonable all things considered.

Now hjeal meh.

[Tscheuss]

How many times have they stated this and actually meant it? Lamannia is constantly proclaimed as a server to preview things to make adjustments before going live but very rarely do any real changes get made before the content is shoved to live.

Quest ransack numbers were adjusted before live. I cannot think of others, atm.

[Saravis]

Except that if they were placeholders, Turbine should have stated that from the very start upon introducing the comms. Instead all we get is confirmation from Squeak of the cost in comms for hearts and a player that revealed how many comms a saga rewarded.

Regardless of the outcome, Turbine goofed up, whether the failure was in communication, development, management, etc; its a failure no matter how you look at it. So I wouldn't call the doom premature. Turbine has some work saving face, if they want to recover from this.

[Shmuel]

10000 more pages of doom isn't going to help.

I disagree. They need to be spammed to oblivion if there is any chance whatsoever they will pay any attention or do anything at all, which I think is probably not going to happen anyway, based on their track record.

Forget 10,000 more pages, lets try and make it 100,000 folks. And lets try and have them in every single forum category possible, so mods have no time to do anything other than move the threads. Maybe that will get some attention.

[Ryiah]

How many times have we seen "These are placeholder values and not final values" after the nerdrage started.

Regardless of whether it is or not, it certainly is one thing - negative publicity. This is no longer confined solely to Turbine's forums.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10...heart-changes/

[Systern]

We got multiple previews of the enhancement pass before the (unfinished) product went live.

Given Turbine's previous time tables, U20 should be around a month or more from now.

I kinda think that this was an "Alpha preview" in which neither Glin nor Rowan gave us the hand-holding "Don't panic" message beforehand.
We don't know what they're trying to achieve (they probably aren't sure either) but none of that is communicated to anyone, not QA, not the Devs, not the Forum Community team. We've had exchanges with Squeak and Varg and Cordovan/Tolero, but since our questions are pretty much "above their paygrade", they've neglected to address it. They can't even say "They haven't told me either" because that just becomes another torch to wield against them.


I do think Reincarnation is the one thing that they absolutely, positively need to postpone deadline in order to get it right. Reincarnation has always been a twitchy beast at best. Re-occurrence of old bugs like loss of ED XP, lost caches, bugged/non-functional past lives will absolutely not be tolerated by the player base. Turbine lacks the manpower to address a surge of support issues that would cripple a player. Reincarnation is the core feature of the game that players must have faith in.

[Ryiah]

We got multiple previews of the enhancement pass before the (unfinished) product went live.

Given Turbine's past history with Lamannia I consider that an exception rather than the rule.

[kuro_zero]

And for good reason. I think taking away the existing token trade-in is a mistake.

However, this is Lam. How many times have we seen "These are placeholder values and not final values" after the nerdrage started.

And how many times have those said placeholder values actually get changed before live? Amrath Quest XP. cannith quest XP, Cannith crafting XP, Enhancement, collectible turn in for augment... the list goes on and on.

Llama is a PREVIEW server, not a test server. If the doom threads wait until its live it'll take half a year for a Dev to respond its being looked at and another year before we see any changes. The doom threads are warrented and we need more.

[Silverleafeon]

Turbine only responds to torches and pitchforks.

They need to think they'll lose money, it's the only thing they react to.

The response is reasonable all things considered.

Now hjeal meh.

Casts quickened heightened enlarged empowered healing renewal

[kuro_zero]

Turbine only responds to torches and pitchforks.

They need to think they'll lose money, it's the only thing they react to.

The response is reasonable all things considered.

Now hjeal meh.

They need to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt it will cost them more money going forward with these changes than they can hope to recover by people buying hearts. The number of token farming and cancelled subs hopefully will make the point.

I'd cancel but I haven't been VIP since unlimited launched. I can say the money I would've spent on TP instead went to MechWarrior Online. My main is on life 9, and of those I bought true hearts from the store for 7 of those lives. The changes wouldn't affect me much, as I have no qualms spending money to bypass grind so I can have fun.

Its the principle of the whole thing, for me

[Satyriasys]

We need more rabble I think.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I agree that rational discussion is key for these kinds of issues. I also believe that a picture conveys the same meaning as 1000 words. I brought those two ideas together and figured out that the best way to reply was by providing a picture.



PS: I hear he's disappointed at the planned TR changes and I'm guessing that can't be good because he brings his own rabble wherever he goes.

Oh, and if Turbine mucks up the heroic TR system, which is a core game mechanic, then they risk alienating a lot of vets. Which means DOOOOM.

I had to put in that last part.

[lugoman]

"these are only placeholder values" is the dev equivalent to players saying "lag" when they die.

[Flavilandile]

Placeholder values made it to live more often than not.

Actually placeholder values not making to live ( and staying as is ) is quite rare and is usually detrimental to players.

[Dandonk]

Placeholder values made it to live more often than not.

Actually placeholder values not making to live ( and staying as is ) is quite rare and is usually detrimental to players.

So very much this.