Occupy Stormreach grows!

[DownGrayeDD]

MOST of their paying customers are playing the game, not rabble-rousing the forums trying to ruin the game.

You see they ENJOY the game, they are HAVING FUN.

They do not see a "grind", they see an opportunity for more fun.

Maybe improve their performance this time, maybe show someone the quest for the first time.

They are playing, not acting like spoiled whiners that don't want to make any effort to get rewarded.

You seem to forget that some people actually enjoy the advancement of a character. Maybe someone that carries a pair of binoculars can see the carrot on the end of a 5 mile treadmill but it's enough to have most sane people say &%#$ it. My guess is you already have several completionists and love the idea locking out any new player from attaining and that idea gets you off.

[uncleblue]

What you call "playing the game," I call "playing only a certain portion of epic content." That is not the game. TRing allows us to play the entirety of the game again and again. We aren't igoring facts, but you don't even seem to have a grasp of what the facts are.

If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

Far too many people got spoiled abusing the short completion times of Epic Carnival.

You can still enjoy the entire game, again and again, you just have to do it less like a bull charging red cape.

[Havok.cry]

Yeah, cheap or lazy.

Cancel VIP over this = lazy.

They do not want to run the more difficult or long quests, because they might die and not feel as uber, possibly in front of others and feel embarrassed.

You also forgot option 4: Play your video game to have fun.

How is playing the quests in the game "grinding you mind to mush"? You will have to play a VARIETY of quests to complete sagas, instead of the current grind of very few quests with optimal speeds for tokens.

Lazy really? When you are a customer you have to options, take what they give you, or don't pay them. It is not lazy so much as the only option they have to express how dissatisfied with the change they are.

Now lets talk about option 4: Play the game to have fun. I am glad you brought this up. I don't find anything fun about epic levels, nor epic quests. Hearts can only be earned by playing those epic sagas. Epic sagas are only gianthold and forgotten realms content. I do not have fun in forgotten realms, I pretty much hate every second spent there.

You say this will cause a variety of quests to be run, but you are mistaken, only the quests included in epic sagas will be able to earn hearts so only that small portion of the game will be ground out for hearts. That is the opposite of what you say. Playing only those limited quests rather than the quests I actually enjoy, very much fits the description of grinding your mind into mush.

This change will basically force me away from having fun as I am now, into running mostly quests that I hate. That is the opposite of playing the game for fun.

As to how difficult of a quest people run: who the heck cares? You say in the very next sentence that they should play the game for fun, but I guess what you mean is that they should play the game how you think is fun and otherwise be damned.

[Shorlong]

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of investment to me.

2 1/2 hours seems like a silly low time investment to TR.

You make it sound like you do not WANT to play GH. Don't you like GH? Weren't you going to play it anyways?

Oh and nobody is FORCING you to do anything, because TR IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN EGO.

You make it sound like you have to play it once. You don't. You have to play it 150 times. 150 times, or 15 days of actual game play. If you started right now, and did not eat, sleep, take any breaks, stop to sell and repair or anything, you would have enough to get a heart in 15 days....15 days of straight playtime. Break that out into more common play time, and it get's worse. According to a thread that was done not too long ago, the average player spends about 2 hours a night playing. So, if for that two hours you got to play, you did nothing but run gianthold quests, and you played every single day, it would take you 187 days. That is over half a year. So, sometime next year, I can finally TR, and that is after spending all of my in game time on one character, doing nothing but running Gianthold.

Yeah, it seems pretty crappy.

[uncleblue]

I find it really interesting you simply cannot grasp the concept of someone enjoying DDO by playing Eberron quests (because they are, in my opinion, the best designed quests), TR-ing when that's done, and experimenting with different character and class builds.

And...

DDO = Grinding?

Wow. If I want to grind, I'd play a bazillion other Japanese/Korean MMORPG. This guy clearly don't know what grinding really means.

But don't you worry, I completely get what makes you enjoy your game completely. And from the sad look of things -- you are in the minority. I hope you are used to playing solo if this update comes live!

So your objection is that you have to play FR content?

I have TR toons....

I experiment with things on servers that aren't my main....

Do you even understand what grinding is? Doing the same thing over and over and over..... like running The Snitch 500 times for tokens because it is quick, or the same challenge over and over.

Completing sagas means running a PLETHORA of different quests, and therefore is LESS grindy.

I think you just like repeating what you hear to sound cool, with no understanding of the situation.

[Shorlong]

If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

No, you can't. You can only get the comms from completing the epic sagas.

[Havok.cry]

If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

Far too many people got spoiled abusing the short completion times of Epic Carnival.

You can still enjoy the entire game, again and again, you just have to do it less like a bull charging red cape.

Only epic sagas will give comms. So you don't even know how this works. Maybe you should educate yourself before you continue this discussion.

You have no idea how I enjoy the game, so trying to tell me I am a "bull charging a red cape" just continues to make you sound more and more ignorant.

[RedOrm]

In a different thread, someone calculated it'll be far easier and very much faster to make a new toon, run it to 20, then delete it and use the TP you earned while leveling to go BUY a heart in the shop for your main... /shakes head in disbelief.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[uncleblue]

You are a special kind of special....

I have 15 characters on my account and main server. I play them multiple times. I had even though about doing an Epic TR on one of my two mains once my other main hits cap (he is on his second life, and I never planned on TRing him again.). Now, with the previous system, I farmed out a heart of wood in a week. Now, it would take me the better part of a year, and I would get tired of it and want to play my other character's as well, which would lead me to the point of just not even bothering, as the reward isn't worth it.

To some people, TRing is their endgame. It is what they do. Now, again, this change does not really affect me, as I have only TRed once, and I never planned on doing it again, but I did want to ER at least once. Yeah, I could spend 20 bucks to do it, but I would rather not, as I already spend so much on other things. Having that option there was nice. Taking it away is a stupid business decision.

I'm special?

You are the one that thinks he can see the future.....

You are also the one jumping on a bandwagon that he admits doesn't really affect him.....

Epic TR is going to be a new system. Even if they left Heroic TR mechanics exactly the same, they would still make Epic TR this way....

You are mixing your apples and oranges, and do not even know it.

[uncleblue]

Challenge accepted.

A man's answer.

[MaxxieDemon]

Just leave this guy alone. He clearly wants Turbine's U20 to fulfill his style of gaming more than any others.

I mean, he said grinding is gaming for him... though I totally think there a bazillion of other MMORPGs that is more grindier than DDO. So... you know... clearly he really wants this update so he can have even more fun! We can't judge him for that now, can we?

[Tscheuss]

I'm special?

You are the one that thinks he can see the future.....

You are also the one jumping on a bandwagon that he admits doesn't really affect him.....

Epic TR is going to be a new system. Even if they left Heroic TR mechanics exactly the same, they would still make Epic TR this way....

You are mixing your apples and oranges, and do not even know it.

Devil's Advocate, or Troll?

You decide.

[uncleblue]

1) LAM IS NOT A BLOODY TEST SERVER. It's a "preview server." Normally, what makes it on Lam is what makes it to live. I'm sure that based off the backlash, they'll adjust it some, but it more-than-likely won't be enough.

2) Oh, that's just great. If you don't want to spend WEEKS grinding out ONE heart, you're lazy. So just spend real money, instead! That's the perfect solution, said nobody ever. You really, honestly think that implementing such a blatant, forced cash-grab is going to encourage people (who are already disillusioned with the way Turbine has handled the game recently) to spend MORE money on this game? If you do, I've got a bridge to sell you.

3) "X is not required" is the lamest strawman ever. NOTHING in this game is required. However, currently, there is NOTHING to do at Level 28. Have you gotten any toons to 28? The LFM panel is a barren wasteland, and the expansion quests are not terribly imaginative and offer horrible loot. And with the emphasis this update is putting on TRing, if you do not want to TR the only other option at the moment is to quit the game. Which, by the way, a significant amount of players will probably do if they don't reduce these numbers by AT LEAST 3/4.

1. Semantics and you know it.

2. Yup, THERE is your "something to do at Level 28". Complete sagas. More content coming *soon.

3. ATM, MOST LFMs are a barren wasteland, due to a bunch of cheaters being banned. Level/server is irrelevant. Bashing the expansion garners no sympathy from me, its NEW content. Plus you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN.

[Havok.cry]

you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN.

Few of the quests in the sagas are fun.

[uncleblue]

You seem to forget that some people actually enjoy the advancement of a character. Maybe someone that carries a pair of binoculars can see the carrot on the end of a 5 mile treadmill but it's enough to have most sane people say &%#$ it. My guess is you already have several completionists and love the idea locking out any new player from attaining and that idea gets you off.

You would be wrong. I work for a living. Completionists LIVE in DDO.

Plenty of ways to advance your character without TR.

TR benefits are minimal, anyways.

You really want to "advance your character"? Increase you playing skills by playing the more difficult/interesting quests.

[Ausdoerrt]

More variety of quests get run: good.

But it will be FEWER quests run for comms, genius.

Chance of failure occasionally: FUN = good.

The only chance of failure introduced here is the chance of failure for the game as a whole

More people at cap, running quests for sagas for hearts: more endgame = good.

Except all those who will quit and can't be bothered. Also, this is not "endgame" in any shape or form.

People have to purchase packs to complete sagas to TR: more money for Turbine = good.

OK, setting aside all opinions and biases on this one, and even assuming nobody quits over this. It's a crappy short-term cash grab. You can only buy the new packs once - then the cash flow's dried out.

Also, as you might notice, most people complaining already have most or all of the relevant content anyway.

1. Semantics and you know it.

No it's not bloody semantics. We have a proper test server too, you know.

2. Yup, THERE is your "something to do at Level 28". Complete sagas. More content coming *soon.

I suppose putting holes in your arm with a screwdriver is "something to do" as well then. Gotcha. Brb.

3. ATM, MOST LFMs are a barren wasteland, due to a bunch of cheaters being banned. Level/server is irrelevant. Bashing the expansion garners no sympathy from me, its NEW content. Plus you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN

It's not fun to run the same few quests over and over.

[MrRoboto]

Can we shut this silly thread down already?

[Nestroy]

You would be wrong. I work for a living. Completionists LIVE in DDO.

Plenty of ways to advance your character without TR.

TR benefits are minimal, anyways.

You really want to "advance your character"? Increase you playing skills by playing the more difficult/interesting quests.

The problem is that if this hits life unchanged, it will completel destroy the TR scene. it is easier to just level up from sratch one toon after the other, kill them at lv. 28 and restart than to grind out the sagas for the comms needed to epic TR. Scene destroyed, let´s get over with this and move on?

Fine, but I will tell you this - I fear that this behavior of Turbine would lead to a mass exodus of senior players. If this is intended, fine. If not, beware, Turbine!

Might I add, coincidence or not, that at the same time U20 will hit life, EOS will be comming up. In my guild allone about 50% of the active player base will give EOS a close look. And at least halfo of them are multiple TRs not liking by a large margin the changes in TR as are disclosed by now.

[Lanhelin]

Can we shut this silly thread down already?

No. And thank you for the push

[Ausdoerrt]

I'm all for a good old fashioned sit in, singing kumbiya (sp?) and passing around the peace pipe and what not. But why have it just on Wayfinder which is easily the lowest population server we have? If we'd want to have any kind of impact (ie get more people informed about what's going on) then there should be an "occupation" on each and every server. Having it just on Wayfinder is akin to putting out an inferno one glass of water at a time.

Actually, a sudden spike in the population of a half-dead server may be more noticeable.