When people's response is screenshots of cancelled subscriptions . . .

[Ungood]

Yes, it is actually.
When I first joined this game I didn't want to invest any more than $25. And I've done just that. Instead I spent all my time playing the game, earning things in game and unlocking more of that game that way. Which to me was the real beauty of the F2P model, I really didn't need to spend a since dime to play and unlock the entire game, I just needed time and patience.

The amazing this that has always attracted me to this game was the fact that I could buy my way into it, buying content, buying hearts, buying whatever; At the same time I could instead work for it. Farm favor on servers, run the content, learn the game.

Did I get my TR hearts for free? In the sense that I didn't pay turbine for them, sure. But I had to run quests to get the tokens, and then trade those tokesn for a heart. I payed with time and effort, not cash.

While I am not a fan of what Turbine is doing with the TR change, lets be real here, your "time and effort" don't keep the lights on or pay peoples paycheck.

[Ungood]

Yes I am certain of it. Nobody would ever TR and they would bleed customers overnight. Their mistake was posting the prices of hearts this early in development without giving us any indication of the saga rewards.
Then someone does a saga on Lammania and posts the placeholder numbers which throws the community into a riot. and people wonder why Turbine is so quiet about giving us information, because this is what happens when we only see half of a system.
The new TR mechanic is not even open for testing yet on Lammania. Removing the hearts from the twelve is the real mistake but it's no surprise really. They have been phasing tokens out for a long time now.
Honestly once they get the numbers tuned to a more realistic balance and add some more sagas I think this new system is going to be fine. I will get commendations for doing quests I would have done anyway. Turbine does listen to us and has gone back to the drawing board when we call them out on poor decisions.

LOL, you missed out then on the Crafting "Placeholders"

[Tuffgar]

Guess I better rush to epic levels on my current life and stock up on Hearts of Wood while I can. HUNDREDS of runs just to TR is utter nonsense.

I guess at the very least I need to get to a TR now and set up a life that I'm going to stick with if this change goes live. Uhg..... I don't understand. Why shoot yourself in the foot like this when the MMO market is about to get hit by an array of big-name releases a little later in the year? Wildstar, Elder Scrolls Online, and EQ Next. This is not to mention the holiday blitz of other game genres that happens EVERY year around November-December.

Turbine, even if you're only in it for the money, now is NOT the time to be ****ing off your core player base. People WILL take their money and go somewhere else. That isn't a threat. That's not me claiming that I'll cancel my sub if you don't do what I want. This is cold hard fact. You can not take one of your core game mechanics that sets your game apart from others and make it difficult and tedious to get, and expect people to stick around. Not when there are so many other enticing games pounding down people's doors with newer software, newer graphics engines, and larger pocketbooks to do it with.

[taurean430]

While I am not a fan of what Turbine is doing with the TR change, lets be real here, your "time and effort" don't keep the lights on or pay peoples paycheck.

No.

But the thousands of dollars I've spent on this game does. Additionally, it isn't unreasonable to reach a point where an investment in entertainment becomes something akin to paying for disappointment. Some have reached that point reading about these changes.

[Gremmlynn]

The fix is simple, if inelegant:

Add the following conversions to the 12 altar:
- 20 fragments of the twelve for 10 commendations of valor
- 1 token of the twelve for 50 commendations of valor

Done and done. If you then convert your 20 tokens of the twelve you end up with 1000 commendations of valor, meaning heroic TR remains largely unchanged for everyone and every playstyle. Epic TR then costs double this. Fine by me.

Once this is implemented, the insanity of 17 comms of valor for an EH saga reward becomes clear, so multiply saga comm rewards by 10 and maybe that would do it. 170 comms for a saga reward means around how many per quest on average? 17? 20? Whatever the average works out to, mentally double that number to see what the equivalent reward is in token fragments. This sounds about right to me.

Make it so and there will be peace and joy in the land.

It is absolutely critical that tokens can be converted to comms of valor. (A separate conversion for fragments would be nice but not required.) Anything short of this is a real threat to the game's viability.

170 for 11 quests to 150 for one twice? I'd say about 1000 for a saga would be about right as it means you have to run specific quests determined by Turbine, so should have a higher output then being able to run what one wants. Also, because one must pass up the regular saga reward for it, rather than it being in addition as it is in the case of tokens/fragments.

Personally, I think the whole thing is a paradigm change away from the idea that store bought Hearts are the exception to what really frugal players with a lot of time use. Along the lines of favor TP, a nice addition to what is mostly bought from the store for most players. So maybe every 10th TR should be expected to be from a free heart, rather than every TR.

Don't think it will pan out, but starting to think they need something like this to keep their budget. To small a player base to get the return other projects WB can put it into. Just not enough players to spread development costs over.

[voodoogroves]

The heart isn't even the prize - it just enables you to play more. Why the fudge you want to put a barrier on that, I'll never freaking understand.

"Dear players, we have this one whole team working on big reincarnation mechanics. Then we have this other team putting in gates and barriers so you'll never use it. Suckit!"

[Gremmlynn]

Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations
17 Commendations per Ehard Saga

Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.
Everyone needs a little patience these numbers have been posted one day and the TR system is not even on Lammania yet.

Yes I do. Better to say, very few will be TRing for free.

Latest expansion - 2495 TPs (basic version)
25 TP per 100 favor.
This is more along their lines of thought I believe.

[Ivan_Milic]

I always thought the TR heart in the store was too expensive and the TR heart ingame was too cheap and easy to get (run 20 quests to gain 1400 TP, ***?). I don't understand this, because TR'ing is pretty much the most interesting feature that you can buy from the store. Imo, it would be better if they removed ingame TR vendors completely and then reduce the TP cost of TR'ing to about 700-800. I think people could live with that.

I would never buy tr heart from store.
The gains from tring are so little that it should be free, for 4 million xp you are 1% better, thats just not worth it anymore.

[ThreeEyedBob]

No screenshot but I just cancelled my account. Already cut back on my spending on DDO. I was spending around 100-150 dollars a month prior to the expansion.

Turbine is so out of touch with their playerbase that they can just file for bankrupcy now and save themselves the trouble later.

[Pandir]

Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations
17 Commendations per Ehard Saga

Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.
Everyone needs a little patience these numbers have been posted one day and the TR system is not even on Lammania yet.

Well then i hope they take the cancelled subs as motivation to fix the placeholders.

[Charononus]

No screenshot but I just cancelled my account. Already cut back on my spending on DDO. I was spending around 100-150 dollars a month prior to the expansion.

Turbine is so out of touch with their playerbase that they can just file for bankrupcy now and save themselves the trouble later.

They did wait to post this till the government shutdown was over and the unemployment office was open.

[2pleasegimmie]

The fix is simple, if inelegant:

Add the following conversions to the 12 altar:
- 20 fragments of the twelve for 10 commendations of valor
- 1 token of the twelve for 50 commendations of valor

Done and done. If you then convert your 20 tokens of the twelve you end up with 1000 commendations of valor, meaning heroic TR remains largely unchanged for everyone and every playstyle. Epic TR then costs double this. Fine by me.

Once this is implemented, the insanity of 17 comms of valor for an EH saga reward becomes clear, so multiply saga comm rewards by 10 and maybe that would do it. 170 comms for a saga reward means around how many per quest on average? 17? 20? Whatever the average works out to, mentally double that number to see what the equivalent reward is in token fragments. This sounds about right to me.

Make it so and there will be peace and joy in the land.

It is absolutely critical that tokens can be converted to comms of valor. (A separate conversion for fragments would be nice but not required.) Anything short of this is a real threat to the game's viability.

Actually, the simplest fix is to fire FoS and anyone who agrees with his ideas and approach to the game.

[katz]

No.

But the thousands of dollars I've spent on this game does. Additionally, it isn't unreasonable to reach a point where an investment in entertainment becomes something akin to paying for disappointment. Some have reached that point reading about these changes.

ungood and i have also both spent lots on this game also. in fact... we were considering celebrating our first paycheck at a new job with some points... and then this.

so yeah... no.

[Qhualor]

EDs used in heroics

duping exploit

ED off destiny grind

random loot

saga hearts of wood

failed Shadowfell

just some big recent things that have gotten the community riled up. Turbine needs to take note because whats left of the population have had it up to their eyeballs.

[Trerro]

While I am not a fan of what Turbine is doing with the TR change, lets be real here, your "time and effort" don't keep the lights on or pay peoples paycheck.

MMOs are social games. They do not function without the dedicated, active players that form the core of guilds, take the time to set up the parties, run the fansites, etc. Drive these players away, and everyone stares at an empty party list, empty guild chat, and total lack of community, gets bored, and quits. It doesn't matter if you're willing to pay cash in if the game stops being fun, and driving out the free players does precisely that.

Additionally, the whole point of developing an MMO character is that you EARN stuff through play and get more stronger and more versatile as you play more. When everything is just throw cash in, the game loses its essence, and again, the cash players who used to be quite willing to pay in and support the company stop enjoying the game and quit.

I've seen game after game after game fade into oblivion because some managers that don't understand how a gaming community works argued for changes on exactly this quoted text, often right after a buyout of the original company.

Yes, the game has to be monetized. Yes, screwups WILL happen and companies don't always get it right on the first try. Yes, you can't please everyone. However, when a company decides that *only* the cash players matter, their game is dead, and when they decide only the big spenders matter, the game dies FAST. I've personally witnessed it happen on WAY too many games, including one I played for 8 years. I'd rather not see DDO land in the MMO graveyard... it's already way too huge of a place, and DDO is one of a VERY small list of MMOs that isn't just another WoW clone or Korean grinder... and with RO being said game that screwed up after 8 years, it's pretty much the last one that actually lets you BUILD a character and not just level on a set path with boring, stat-only tiered gear (like both of those MMO types tend to do).

For the record, I do spend money on this, in the form of TP bought at about a rate that a VIP would spend on a sub, as well as buying expansions, so while I'm not a huge spender, I'm quite willing to support Turbine, or well... I was. If they drive all the free players out, I'll be right behind them.

[Teh_Troll]

When a two sentence post on a Friday night gets 3 pages before 9 AM . . . all I have to say is it's good to be Teh_Troll.

Carry on.

[Arnhelm]

When a two sentence post on a Friday night gets 3 pages before 9 AM . . . all I have to say is it's good to be Teh_Troll.

Carry on.

lol

On the serious side, if this change goes live it will be the end of my spending in DDO. I won't buy another expansion or adventure pack. I won't complete my MotU purchases by getting the Eveningstar Challenge Pack I planned to purchase. I won't spend another penny on buying Turbine Points.

Sadly, at this point, I have no subscription to cancel, or I would do so.

[Ausdoerrt]

Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations
17 Commendations per Ehard Saga

Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.
Everyone needs a little patience these numbers have been posted one day and the TR system is not even on Lammania yet.

How naive. I believe this is Turbine's way of saying "f*ck you, players, we just want you to buy hearts from the store".

I was never big on TRing, but if they basically limit epic content to two ****ing chaing (because, let's face it, no one will run anything that doesn't drop comms if this goes live) and multiply the grind, I just won't bother.


Here's a piece of advice Turbine: if you wanna shut down the game, just apologize and do it, don't go around throwing dirt into our faces. This is ridiculous to the extreme.

[fredericko]

Worst part of the new system is that now you will be given a choice between TR'ing tokens and getting xp. To me these changes feel like a restaurant where, instead of offering good cocktails for the customers having dinner, so that they fancy them and spend some extra cash on their drinks, a waiter comes up with your dinner and a bucket of cold water. He serves your dinner alright, then holds the bucket of water over your head and says: "and now, for 10 extra bucks, you can enjoy your dinner all warm and dry". It's not going to happen.

I actually don't know what my problem is with DDO. Pretty sure part of it comes from sheer boredom with DDO ATM. It probably has something to do with DDO F2P "false advertising". Maybe it has to do with Turbine premium model. Perhaps it has to do with the perception of low value for your buck (but that cannot be all; why do I buy cosmetic packs for games I barely play? Where's the value in that?). I do think Eveningstar is decent value for your buck though; I bought a TP pack to buy Eveningstar and EDs - that was the last TP I ever bought. I used to maintain 2 premium accounts. Only thing I know is the idea of spending money on DDO sounds terrible to me ATM and these changes don't help in the least.

[redspecter23]

Hmm, doing a bit of math in my head here. At 17 coms per saga and lets say 10 quests per saga and 2000 coms per epic heart, that's about 180 sagas for a heart or 1800 quests. You could earn the favor TP and buy it from the store faster by just rolling a completely new toon and leveling it to 20, then deleting and rerolling again. My guess is it would actually be faster to earn the favor TP than use the com system.