The Official Quest Experience Adjustment Discussion Thread!

[MRMechMan]

Quest Experience Changes:
The Epic XP formula has changed and the total amount of Epic XP in the game has been increased. (Base XP for Epic quests has decreased.) The old formula penalized longer quests and optionals. The new formula removes that penalty.
The first set of Heroic Quest Experience Changes is in! (Details may see further adjustment in the future.)
Experience for 4 quests has been decreased:
Desecrated Temple of Vol Making it less than 70% of what it used to be is quite heavy handed IMO.
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 5344
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3688
Mining for Ancient Secrets Fair enough, only 2 required "kills" needed but I really don't think this needs a nerf
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3964
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2850
Reclaiming Memories
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3964 There is no need to nerf it, especially on elite HP bloat in IQ1/2 is insane.
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3022
The Deadly Package: Agent of the Darguul Fine. As Sirgog said, increase the flesh render optional. Tying optional XP to base XP is lazy development. An optional is played thousands and thousands of times, and you guys cannot estimate how much it should give based on it's own merit? BTW, stronghold key is quite good xp, it can be run invis in ~1:15-1:30, first bravery run gives ~5k iirc.
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 847
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 202


Experience for 16 quests has been increased:
Storm the Beaches Um...really?
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1828
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1884
Bargain of Blood Was fine before
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1540
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1778
Partycrashers Was fine before IMO
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2200
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2640
The Black Loch Fine
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1732
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2268
The Lord of Eyes Fine
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 6000
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 6570
Wrath of the Flame More
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2321
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2566
The Tide Turns OK
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2020
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 2657
Acute Delirium Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 5327
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 6036
The Lord of Stone Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3532
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 5124
Undermine Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3532
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 5355
Blown to BitsGood
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3534
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 6243
Spies in the House Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 4588
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 7395
Bastion of Power Needs a bit more
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 5140
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 7114
The Weapons Shipment Needs more
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 3460
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 6432
Power Play Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 4565
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 9709
Schemes of the Enemy Good
Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 4132
New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 10669

Overall, it's a good start. I love the cannith quests and now they might be worth running. Old habits die hard, hopefully more lfms for these quests will slowly reappear.

There are a few very obvious bad XP quests that were left off of the list, hopefully they get addressed in time.


The XP curves look fine for 2nd and 3rd lives.

[voodoogroves]

Not just those 2. Except maybe VoN 5, I'd like to see every raid get bumped significantly. They should be a capstone experience for DDO players. Make it so people WANT to flag and get first-time bonuses for raids at level. Make every raid Shadow Crypt or VoN3 good.

I wouldn't mind seeing the timers change for some as well. Maybe one other raid with no timer (similar to Tempest Spine) and the timer shortened on others. Specifically, I'm looking at VoD, HoX and Chrono.

[Charononus]

I wish that Turbines devs understood that nerfs should be a last line of corrective action, if there is any other way to fix a situation that should be done rather than a nerf. Nerfs always cause resentment within a playerbase, even if the overall effect of the correction is possible there will be players that are very upset about it and will leave.

[Lauf]

first of all, three barrels cove. please take a long hard look at it. too many quests out there give too little xp, making most players skip the pack altogether while leveling.

here's a list of other quests that could do with some more xp:

• Bringing the light - too little compared to at-level quests
• Taming the flames - too hard to be bothered with (assuming a normal pug) when there are plenty of easier at-level quests offering much more xp.
• Made to order - seriously. long overdue. a long quest filled with mines, granting only meager xp...
• Chains of flame - long quest at a far location. travel time should be factored into the quest xp, because as it is it's not worth more than a once a life visit, if you're bored or for some reason need the flagging.
• Mired in kobolds - just because it's f2p doesn't mean it should be overlooked.

also, if you could please make restless isles quests easier to reach and easier to turn in. the xp is fine, but no one runs them. ever.

[hp1055cm]

+1 This I really like:
"Third life: Levels 1 through 19 TOTAL: 3,800,000 XP"


+1 Also like that someone is evaluating the XP in Quests.
Would like to a bit more balance in XP and a general growth in XP for higher level Heroic quests.
Would be beneficial if Bravery Bonus were less influential in leveling. (More XP built into Elite and less bonus for BB)


+10% XP for VIP is awesome and Monster Manual bonuses provide a nice boost.

[axel15810]

Devs please take a look at raid XP.

Raids should be boosted significantly in XP. Most are almost never run at level as they were designed because of the poor XP, which is a shame. Boosting raid XP would be a win win, as it would give vets the XP they want and it would encourage grouping for players once again instead of players just soloing everything which is common nowadays. Raids are supposed to be the toughest quests and they almost always require the most organization and strategy. Why not reward the players for that? As it stands now there is not enough of a reward, so players only run them way over level for loot. And many with outdated loot are almost never run at all.

Also XP for some quests like Shadow Crypt, Litany and most of Vault of Night should be reduced. Not that I don't love XP, but it's it's silly the absurd amounts of XP these quests give compared to others around the same level.

[Qhualor]

Devs please take a look at raid XP.

Raids should be boosted significantly in XP. Most are almost never run at level as they were designed because of the poor XP, which is a shame. Boosting raid XP would be a win win, as it would give vets the XP they want and it would encourage grouping for players once again instead of players just soloing everything which is common nowadays. Raids are supposed to be the toughest quests and they almost always require the most organization and strategy. Why not reward the players for that? As it stands now there is not enough of a reward, so players only run them way over level for loot. And many with outdated loot are almost never run at all.

Also XP for some quests like Shadow Crypt, Litany and most of Vault of Night should be reduced. Not that I don't love XP, but it's it's silly the absurd amounts of XP these quests give compared to others around the same level.

Raid xp should be properly balanced for the intended level range and not because people choose to skip it at level and do it at a higher level.

Raid loot should be properly balanced for the intended level range as well. I will agree raid loot needs adjustment though, but that would defeat the purpose of decreasing the gap of veteran and new players apparently.

[axel15810]

Raid xp should be properly balanced for the intended level range and not because people choose to skip it at level and do it at a higher level.

Looks like you misunderstood my post. I'm not advocating boosting raid XP only because they're skipped often at level.

What I'm saying is that raids are often skipped at level because players aren't rewarded in terms of XP for the extra time it takes to get 12 people together and properly organize them and form a strategy. We should change that, raid XP should be boosted higher to account for it. This would give everyone the extra XP they want, encourange grouping and be "properly balanced for the intended level range" in my eyes.

[Qhualor]

Looks like you misunderstood my post. I'm not advocating boosting raid XP only because they're skipped often at level.

What I'm saying is that raids are often skipped at level because players aren't rewarded in terms of XP for the extra time it takes to get 12 people together and properly organize them and form a strategy. We should change that, raid XP should be boosted higher to account for it. This would give everyone the extra XP they want, encourange grouping and be "properly balanced for the intended level range" in my eyes.

The only raid you describe is Von 6 and that's mostly because some veterans have problems with pugs who can't understand the concept of timing portal beat downs. The xp is in the neighborhood of 12k, which can be good if you can beat it in a few minutes otherwise most groups take 10 or more minutes and constant deaths and mayhem.

Shroud doesn't usually get run at level because of BB and the difficulty of elite and because players prefer completions and ingrediants mostly. That's why you see mostly 17-28 lfms.

Not many were running Hound and VOD after MOTU because of the loot.

Never seen a group for an at level Abbot, ever but doesn't mean there never has been any.

People don't run DQ at level because the biggest interest is the Torc.

I see at level Reavers all the time. It takes a little bit to fill sometimes, but it does get run at level.

So basically, you are rallying for Von 6 than?

[Tesrali]

Lvl 10 quests do not have much xp (in total), excepting Vault of Night. VON groups can be hard to get in non-epics. The quest is also 20-60min long depending on the group, and trapper availability not to mention the 20min of group forming I do.

I rarely see people running Restless Isles quests. Boosting the xp on those quests would assist this lvl 10 divet enormously. No one I know runs the content. FOR REALSIES!

Nerfing Shadow Crypt would make lvl 10 even harder on TR toons since most of us are banking that into lvl 12.

---

Another tough time is lvl 15 quests (17 on elite). The coming drop of 400,000xp takes care of this though---we could stand to nerf Litany, and improve xp you gain from doing its opts. I've never played in a group which did those on elite.

The new content is very difficult (comparatively) and that giving it a modest bump would be good.

---

BUMP on the Three Barrel Cove post. Its disappointing to do the quests. Some of my favorite content to.

BUMP on increasing raid XP at higher levels. I don't need the items and only end up doing them for fun.

The alchemical crafting system isn't operational with the lack of groups running those quests.

[Stormraiser]

Oh. So you say its fair that some person can pay money and get eveyrthing you worked hard for a few years? Yay for materialists...
Life isnt fair - but Turbine could be
And of course - I cant say its sth we have to have - but itd be nice. There was a rage about "earnng points in each sphere" bcs ppl were telling they already have farmed ED and dont want to collect some points by plaing in it. I think this is the same.

I'm sorry, that is just foolish. Should the people who beat epics before epic destinies get a destiny bonus? What about the people who beat shroud at level 16 at cap? What about people who farmed for +1 tomes, how did they feel when +2 tomes came out? How about when +3 tomes came out?

Stormraiser

[Stormraiser]

Lets also not forget that you killed the quest-farming with the new ransack (which I applaud). What I would like to point out here is that you are over-nerfing a single quest based on a playstyle that no longer exists.

I strongly disagree with this comment. The rumors of quest farming being killed are strongly exaggerated. In fact, for some people with a very limited amount of play time, the new mechanics increase XP a lot.

Stormraiser

[Stormraiser]

This is actually not a bad idea 500k per TR is tad much though as in some cases *cough* it could add up to 11mil xp. (that's roughly three TR-s worth of xp )

Perhaps a more modest refund per TR would be nice.

Or 40 mill xp+ for extreme power grinders.

[axel15810]

The only raid you describe is Von 6 and that's mostly because some veterans have problems with pugs who can't understand the concept of timing portal beat downs. The xp is in the neighborhood of 12k, which can be good if you can beat it in a few minutes otherwise most groups take 10 or more minutes and constant deaths and mayhem.

Shroud doesn't usually get run at level because of BB and the difficulty of elite and because players prefer completions and ingrediants mostly. That's why you see mostly 17-28 lfms.

Not many were running Hound and VOD after MOTU because of the loot.

Never seen a group for an at level Abbot, ever but doesn't mean there never has been any.

People don't run DQ at level because the biggest interest is the Torc.

I see at level Reavers all the time. It takes a little bit to fill sometimes, but it does get run at level.

So basically, you are rallying for Von 6 than?

I never mentioned Von 6 at all, I was refering to the adventure pack as a whole not the raid. I mentioned that overall I feel the Vault of Night chain gives too much XP compared to the other adventure packs. And I'm referring to the flagging quests, not VoN 5 and 6. I feel that the raid portion is fine as is, it's one of the few raids that people do want to run at level...and it's because the XP is worth the trouble of running it at level. It's one of the few raids that is.

The raids I really would like to see get a heroic XP boost are Chronoscope, VoN, HoX, Titan Awakes, Tempest Spine, Master Artificer, Lord of Blades and Abbot. Maybe a some others. These raids are rarely run at level (with the exception of maybe Tempest Spine) because the XP is too poor to make up for all the trouble that they are worth (flagging, filling the group, organizing the group/setting up a strategy).

You mentioned a lot of reasons why people don't run certain raids at level...we all already know why raids aren't run at level. What I'm trying to say is people would run them at level if the XP given made it worth the effort.

[Qhualor]

Devs please take a look at raid XP.

Raids should be boosted significantly in XP. Most are almost never run at level as they were designed because of the poor XP, which is a shame. Boosting raid XP would be a win win, as it would give vets the XP they want and it would encourage grouping for players once again instead of players just soloing everything which is common nowadays. Raids are supposed to be the toughest quests and they almost always require the most organization and strategy. Why not reward the players for that? As it stands now there is not enough of a reward, so players only run them way over level for loot. And many with outdated loot are almost never run at all.

Also XP for some quests like Shadow Crypt, Litany and most of Vault of Night should be reduced. Not that I don't love XP, but it's it's silly the absurd amounts of XP these quests give compared to others around the same level.

your first paragraph talks about raid xp needing a boost because you believe it be poor. you think this would encourage more grouping, which it probably could if it was boosted up nicely. you didn't mention anything of the flagging quests. Vault of Night is a pre raid that you have to be flagged for, so it technically doesn't fall under quests. if you said Vault of Night chain, than there would be less confusion. I assumed you meant Von 5.

I never mentioned Von 6 at all, I was refering to the adventure pack as a whole not the raid. I mentioned that overall I feel the Vault of Night chain gives too much XP compared to the other adventure packs. And I'm referring to the flagging quests, not VoN 5 and 6. I feel that the raid portion is fine as is, it's one of the few raids that people do want to run at level...and it's because the XP is worth the trouble of running it at level. It's one of the few raids that is.

The raids I really would like to see get a heroic XP boost are Chronoscope, VoN, HoX, Titan Awakes, Tempest Spine, Master Artificer, Lord of Blades and Abbot. Maybe a some others. These raids are rarely run at level (with the exception of maybe Tempest Spine) because the XP is too poor to make up for all the trouble that they are worth (flagging, filling the group, organizing the group/setting up a strategy).

You mentioned a lot of reasons why people don't run certain raids at level...we all already know why raids aren't run at level. What I'm trying to say is people would run them at level if the XP given made it worth the effort.

if you look at my list of raids, you will see a trend of why these raids don't get run at level. if players aren't running it for loot, than they are running it for xp (VON 5). if it doesn't have either, than people will just skip over them at level. I usually don't hear or read about raid xp as why people don't run them. its always about the loot. unless the loot from these raids gets a pass to be worth running them for at level, than they would have to have the xp jacked up to the level of Von 5 xp.

[ThreeEyedBob]

I strongly disagree with this comment. The rumors of quest farming being killed are strongly exaggerated. In fact, for some people with a very limited amount of play time, the new mechanics increase XP a lot.

Stormraiser

Really? Since expansion I have never been in a VoL group that has played the quest in excess of 2xElite, 1xHard and 1xNormal. And I would say I have played it quite a bit. This is very different from the old 10xElite, 1xHard, 1xNormal farming. People will instead revisit the quest the day after (when timer is out) for another set of runs.

Perhaps the xp needs tweaking, but it looks to me like Turbine is almost killing the xp instead of making a balanced adjustment. GoP is about as long time wise as VoL for an experienced group yet that is left almost untouched.

It looks to me like Turbine isnt adressing the quests based as much on difficulty and lenght, but more towards how much a quest is being played/how popular a quest is. And that is -not- the right aproach. Make other quests more attractive would be a much better aproach. I think Turbine needs to reassess the xp on the newer quests bigtime. Make questpacks attractive. It will increase sales and its a win-win situation for both players and Turbine. Same goes for the raids. Increase xp and it becomes more desirable to run them for the players and will likely increase Raid Timer Bypasses for Turbine.

[karatemack]

Boost the XP in challenges. All of them. 25-50% more than they currently give. While you're at it, update all of the loot in challenges to be upgradable to level 28 items.

For the most part I'm a fan of the XP changes made to this point. Keep them coming!

[ThreeEyedBob]

Would love it if people mapping out the new base xp's on Lammania would drop some info in here.

[nibel]

Would love it if people mapping out the new base xp's on Lammania would drop some info in here.

You mean this?

[ThreeEyedBob]

Nice mapout of the xp on levels and different TR situations, but not what I meant. There was a post with new base xp on epic level quests for about 10 or so quests. I was wondering if anyone had taken the time to check the new base xp both on heroic n/h/e and epic n/h/e. Im downloading and installing the Lammania client myself and I'll see if I can check them out myself and make a list if nobody else has done it.