The Official Quest Experience Adjustment Discussion Thread!

[SqueakofDoom]

Please use this thread to discuss the changes made to some Quests' XP.

See the Release Notes for the list of affected Quests.

[Razahe]

Quick calculation on normal:
We are losing ~4300 XP base, we gain ~ 28000 XP base, looks like a win here. Even though VOL takes quite a hit for (at least me) no obvious reasons and lvl 19 quests with base XP around 3k are kinda shame, but overall, its fine.
I especially like Spies in the House changes, only just recently i started running it on my TRs and felt a bit of low as theres always a change to miss a jump and start all over, which can extend the quest quite a bit. So thumbs up here.

One last thing::
•Storm the Beaches
•Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1828
•New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1884

56 XP more... really? REALLY?
Seriously you might want to focus on quests that you really want to change. *g*

[ranthrock]

1) Okay, Please Please Please take a pass at Hold for Reinforcements:

BB around 1k xp for a very difficult, easy to fail 15 minuted timed quest. Please look again and give this a bump to at least a 2 or 3k base xp.


2) Feel free to nerf things like shadow crypt or Litany.


The overall changes look great though. Thanks for taking the time to look at these things

-Purr,
1st Cannith Completionist named Purr

[sephiroth1084]

Q

56 XP more... really? REALLY?
Seriously you might want to focus on quests that you really want to change. *g*

Yeah, I agree.

Changes of less than 100 XP base are fairly irrelevant, and there are quests out there that need much more adjusting. For instance, you hit all of the Cannith flagging quests, but didn't touch the two raids, which have abysmal XP!

[sirgog]

I am just going to assume the 56 point change was a dev trolling us or a typo, and that the real change is more. It is a medium difficulty medium length quest, not a short and easy one.

Missing entirely from the list are some of the worst offenders for XP:

Hold for Reinforcements - should be base 7500 on elite
Lord of Blades - legitimately difficult, long and not farmable - should be base 30k on Heroic
Master Artificer - see above (can be lower base XP but should be >20k

I would also be interested to see what would happen if you gave Inferno of the Damned top-notch XP but that is another thing

[sirgog]

Also on the Tanglroot change - it's quite reasonable to nrf part 5b as you are doing, but you should boost 5a to compensate (Deadly Package - Stronghold Key). 5b's excessive XP has always seemed to me to be compensation for 5a having lackluster XP.

Also this will drop the XP on one of the coolest optionals in the whole game - please up the 'Release the Render' optional to 100 to 120% of the new base so people still get to see that.



Finally, Bastion of Power is both longer and harder than Power Play on all difficulties, their new XP should be swapped or Bastion should be pushed to 10-12k.

[Qaliya]

Why do you guys not want to raise the XP of the new quests in your just-released expansion so people actually want to run them?

Here you've even gone and made adjustments to a bunch of quests, yet they were still left out. There are level 15+ quests that give less XP than level 10- quests despite being 10x harder to do. And having them with crazy low XP levels is one of the reasons people advise others not to buy Shadowfell.

It's hard to understand.

[Kambuk]

So all epic quests have new Base XP it looks like. (Going by DDO Wiki for old values)
Checking a random selection of quests on EN
GH Tor now 25,886 was 21,614
Foundation of Discord now 17,339 was 17,126
Prison of the Planes now 17,214 was 17,060
Madstone Crater now 28,374 was 22,934
Von 3 (The Jungle of Khyber) now 42,693 was 30,470 !!!!!!
Von 1 (Tharashk Arena ) now 9,861 was 13,190
A Small Problem now 17,917 was 17,430
Servants of the Overlord now 23,085 was 20,150
Beyond the Rift now 23,427 was 20,330
Caught in the Web now 18,432 was 17,654 - this needs seriously looking at!!!
A Break in the Ice now 24,471 was 20,879
A Lesson in Deception now 17,575 was 17,250

Looks like the very long quests have got a big bump in XP the long ones a slight bump and the short ones a reduction.
VON 1 was the only one I saw with a big drop.
Be interesting to see what What Goes Up has changed too, I wasn't flagged so I couldn't check it.

I was already running Von 3 for XP, will be even better now, unless they have adjusted the optional XP I didn't have time to check.

Kambuk

[sirgog]

So all epic quests have new Base XP it looks like. (Going by DDO Wiki for old values)
Checking a random selection of quests on EN
GH Tor now 25,886 was 21,614
Foundation of Discord now 17,339 was 17,126
Prison of the Planes now 17,214 was 17,060
Madstone Crater now 28,374 was 22,934
Von 3 (The Jungle of Khyber) now 42,693 was 30,470 !!!!!!
Von 1 (Tharashk Arena ) now 9,861 was 13,190
A Small Problem now 17,917 was 17,430
Servants of the Overlord now 23,085 was 20,150
Beyond the Rift now 23,427 was 20,330
Caught in the Web now 18,432 was 17,654 - this needs seriously looking at!!!
A Break in the Ice now 24,471 was 20,879
A Lesson in Deception now 17,575 was 17,250

Looks like the very long quests have got a big bump in XP the long ones a slight bump and the short ones a reduction.
VON 1 was the only one I saw with a big drop.
Be interesting to see what What Goes Up has changed too, I wasn't flagged so I couldn't check it.

I was already running Von 3 for XP, will be even better now, unless they have adjusted the optional XP I didn't have time to check.

Kambuk

Those changes are odd, given that while the current double spawn issue lasts VON1 is longer and harder than VON3.

[Charononus]

Also on the Tanglroot change - it's quite reasonable to nrf part 5b as you are doing, but you should boost 5a to compensate (Deadly Package - Stronghold Key). 5b's excessive XP has always seemed to me to be compensation for 5a having lackluster XP.

Also this will drop the XP on one of the coolest optionals in the whole game - please up the 'Release the Render' optional to 100 to 120% of the new base so people still get to see that.



Finally, Bastion of Power is both longer and harder than Power Play on all difficulties, their new XP should be swapped or Bastion should be pushed to 10-12k.

Deadly Package - Stronghold Key is actually quite good xp, you just have to invis zerg it. You can pull the quest off in about 1.5mins. I normally farm this to be honest.

[nibel]

Von 3 (The Jungle of Khyber) now 42,693 was 30,470 !!!!!!

[ThreeEyedBob]

I would really like to see all the packs base xp revisited and retuned. You guys want to make packs attractive enough to buy, no? In particular the post-MoTU packs needs a big adjustment.

Overall Im happy to see these changes, but I question some of the calculations and changes of 50-100 xp in base xp. Please look at optional xp while you're at it and make it worthwhile to actually do some of them. Tangleroot chain optionals for example is pitiful in the current design. Break 20 weapon boxes for 100 xp...yeah right... Hardly any of the optionals is worthwile except the earth elementals for about 1k xp (counting bonuses) which even that most groups dont do because of the run and swim to get there.

The Desecrated Temple of Vol nerf seems way way overdone. This seems to be recalculated based on vet/TR runtimes. For any normal group with firstlifers sticking together this quest is NOT the cakewalk blastthrough TRs turn it into. Quest xp lenght/difficulty should NOT be based on what TRs do but on what a normal firstlifer whould do. TRs are already "punished" with higher xp treshholds for leveling. There is no need to double up or tripple up on that penalty, and CERTAINLY not to punish firstlifer because of TR playstyles. A saving grace would be to double up the optional xp, but you already slaughtered those by reducing the base xp which the optionals are based on.

You are not killing the game by overnerfing the xp of a single quest, but the nerf of this quest is way overdone and I really would like to see the criteria you use when calculating the new xp. It is blatantly obvious to me that you are not basing the xp on how the quest is meant to be run for an ordinary first life character.

Lets also not forget that you killed the quest-farming with the new ransack (which I applaud). What I would like to point out here is that you are over-nerfing a single quest based on a playstyle that no longer exists.

[Candela90]

Ok. I like changes - but true is sme xp from lvl 1-5 should be shifted higher.
I also dont like nerfing VOL - I love farming this one.

Anyways... What happens to characters who when update hits are:
1) Character with 4 mil xp - lets say lvl 19. They get automatically to lvl 20 due to change of xp curve?
2) Characters who are already lets say 25 - do they get sth to their epic xp?
3) Character with 28 lvl?
4) Characters with many past lifes? Do we get sth for farming 500k xp for each life earlier? For some of us its like 2-3 mil xp or more .Thats a lot to throw it aywa as irrelevant.
hint hint: Maybe some bonuses for next TR for cases 2, 3 and 4

My guesses are that probable cases 2,3,4 will be left with nothing - which feels a little unfair.
Because itd feel not right to punish ppl who had to do a lot more work to get past lifes - they should be rewarded somehow.
And character 1) will get pump up to 20, right?

[Nascoe]

One last thing::
•Storm the Beaches
•Previous Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1828
•New Base XP on Heroic Normal: 1884

56 XP more... really? REALLY?
Seriously you might want to focus on quests that you really want to change. *g*

As mentioned in the title of the post - I took it as a bit light hearted, especially after reading on to see the other changes were more meaningful :-)

[niehues]

Ok. I like changes - but true is sme xp from lvl 1-5 should be shifted higher.
I also dont like nerfing VOL - I love farming this one.

Anyways... What happens to characters who when update hits are:
1) Character with 4 mil xp - lets say lvl 19. They get automatically to lvl 20 due to change of xp curve?
2) Characters who are already lets say 25 - do they get sth to their epic xp?
3) Character with 28 lvl?
4) Characters with many past lifes? Do we get sth for farming 500k xp for each life earlier? For some of us its like 2-3 mil xp or more .Thats a lot to throw it aywa as irrelevant.
hint hint: Maybe some bonuses for next TR for cases 2, 3 and 4

My guesses are that probable cases 2,3,4 will be left with nothing - which feels a little unfair.
Because itd feel not right to punish ppl who had to do a lot more work to get past lifes - they should be rewarded somehow.
And character 1) will get pump up to 20, right?

It was taking too long for this to come..

u forgot to mention also abt ppl that got their tomes the hard to way when there was no tome on the store to receive a bonus +5 supreme ability tome (because it was hard b4)

seriously.. things change.. think abt your parents when they live their lives it was a lot harder.. do u think they come to u and say "give your money.. because now is to easy for u.. u have tap water, u have electricity.. and u have computers with DDO on it.. I deserve a bonus for my life.." come on ppl move on.. think the other way around.. ppl will suffer less perhaps have more past lifes and u will be able to play with better toons/friends..

u can still tell your friends that "I did all this that u are doing now the hard way" to impress them.. and that is already your bonus

[Candela90]

It was taking too long for this to come..

u forgot to mention also abt ppl that got their tomes the hard to way when there was no tome on the store to receive a bonus +5 supreme ability tome (because it was hard b4)

seriously.. things change.. think abt your parents when they live their lives it was a lot harder.. do u think they come to u and say "give your money.. because now is to easy for u.. u have tap water, u have electricity.. and u have computers with DDO on it.. I deserve a bonus for my life.." come on ppl move on.. think the other way around.. ppl will suffer less perhaps have more past lifes and u will be able to play with better toons/friends..

u can still tell your friends that "I did all this that u are doing now the hard way" to impress them.. and that is already your bonus

Oh. So you say its fair that some person can pay money and get eveyrthing you worked hard for a few years? Yay for materialists...
Life isnt fair - but Turbine could be
And of course - I cant say its sth we have to have - but itd be nice. There was a rage about "earnng points in each sphere" bcs ppl were telling they already have farmed ED and dont want to collect some points by plaing in it. I think this is the same.

[Cyr]

I take back the tepid acceptance I had for you guys nerfing any quest xp. The Vol change is completely out of hand and then you boost quests by some preposterously silly number like 56. I am sorry, but five hundred xp more on base on even short quests is not suddenly going to make more desirable enough to alter behaviors.

The devs need to erase ANY xp nerfing from this pass.

These numbers and choice of quests are just a mess as is the 'epic formula rebalncing' based upon the numbers I am seeing. Two massive thumbs down for what I see so far for illogical choices all around.

[SirValentine]

Lord of Blades - legitimately difficult, long and not farmable - should be base 30k on Heroic
Master Artificer - see above (can be lower base XP but should be >20k

Not just those 2. Except maybe VoN 5, I'd like to see every raid get bumped significantly. They should be a capstone experience for DDO players. Make it so people WANT to flag and get first-time bonuses for raids at level. Make every raid Shadow Crypt or VoN3 good.

[ThreeEyedBob]

Not just those 2. Except maybe VoN 5, I'd like to see every raid get bumped significantly. They should be a capstone experience for DDO players. Make it so people WANT to flag and get first-time bonuses for raids at level. Make every raid Shadow Crypt or VoN3 good.

Devs, dont forget that if you make the raids desirable to run for the xp this might mean significant increases in Raid Timer Buypasses sold so the hardcores replay raids for the xp.

[Grynberg]

4) Characters with many past lifes? Do we get sth for farming 500k xp for each life earlier? For some of us its like 2-3 mil xp or more .Thats a lot to throw it aywa as irrelevant.
hint hint: Maybe some bonuses for next TR for cases 2, 3 and 4

This is actually not a bad idea 500k per TR is tad much though as in some cases *cough* it could add up to 11mil xp. (that's roughly three TR-s worth of xp )

Perhaps a more modest refund per TR would be nice.