The Official Experience Curve Discussion Thread!

[serthcore]

Just forget about the "farming lvl 12 quests while im lvl14 and holding 15" mentallity. Run everything on elite, farm high xp/min quests. If you happen to be lvl 15 while doing GH/necro IV instead of lvl 16 it doesn't matter, in the end its 500k xp less

[Grosbeak07]

Based on those new numbers, I've earned 24,007,750 more experience points than what people will now need to get to the same point.

Can I have 4 free epic past lives when they are released?

How many Otto's boxes did you use?

[Grosbeak07]

if that's the total current xp, i'll be leaving the game soon: at low lvls the xp base SUCKS and for new players who don't have most packs(which xp base sucks too, remember) having to farm right after the tr, is a good way to avoid ppl tr'ing anymore

also, otto box, from what i see, otto+voice+xp shrine+50% pot will throw you past 19, which must say, i don't care

the trouble with lvling were lvl 15 AND 16, because u were forced to farm the lvl 13 and 14 quests (which are the lest in number among rest of lvls), with saga u solved the lvl 15 trouble, just needed to reduce both lvls a bit, let's say 100k each and would be solved the trouble of tr'ing

what can't be is having so many quests, so many packs, that capping a toon will be that easy, u won't sell packs, u won't sell otto's, and also, the worst part (and by far) went to ALL the lower lvls, so we had to farm before at lvl 15 and 16, that was 2 days, now will have to farm from 1 to 10?

if u wanna make ddo more solo friendly i can understand it, at lower lvls, where quests are easier force the farm, and at higher lvls with really few quests (in 2 lvls u have concentrated the 30% of the total reduction lol) be able to cap

you simply won't sell more packs like amrath, house c, druid deep, high rood, nor wheloon prison+storm horn

reason? there's no need to run em, only loot, and we know in next release it will be outdated

so pls, tocuh ONLY lvl 15 and 16 xp, reduce 100k each and u won't lose so much money (17-20 can be reduced a bit too, so u avoid that huge difference between 15-16 and the rest of lvls, however isn't needed)

if u continue with that xp curve changes, i strongly suggest u: change xp from ALL quests, now, before it's too late

also, using a formula to calculate the xp for 20 lvls, isn't the best method, some manual adjustment is needed to make it smoother

First off, the current 1st life xp is unchanged (the curve perhaps adjusted slightly). I do not consider people on their 2nd and 3rd lives to be "new" players. Especially by a 3rd TR, they should know if they need additional packs or not.

Low level quests are run so fast it will be nothing more than a slight bump in the road for most players. Also given the quest ransack xp system, even older quests that you no longer get a bravery bonus for can still yield so fast xp per minute. I really don't see any issues at all.

Even at the mid levels where people are concerned still, you can run something like Gianthold and Sands quests daily for the 20% play bonus. There is plenty of xp, we are just going to have to change up how things are run. Even then not that drastically.

[Nascoe]

In terms of just leveling speed and grinding issues, we will just have to learn that we dont need to bank each level anymore and level up in time as it is not needed anymore for the late levels (which was the reason to start banking at all)

I think that is just what it does, yes. Instead of (having to) bank a lot of levels you can now just go along and lvl up as the XP curve is changed. That goes for the first lvls too - I find my self regularly banking lvls even on new characters I make to play with my son/brother/friends I bring into DDO from about lvl 3 when I don't want to ruin their XP by "powerleveling" because I am at a bit higher lvl on live now.

There's just so much content that is not really needed to lvl up these lvls, so it really makes sense to keep newer players in that range for a tad longer while they learn the basics and learn about how different classes develop.

[silinteresting]

after talking to a friend we have come to the conclusion the front few levels
will be easy, in fact ill probally be level 3-4 before running a quest.

all them lovely xp tokens we get each day, well enough said


your friend sil

[Cyr]

Way overdone on the shifting of xp from higher levels to lower levels.

Level 1-3 on TR2 is pretty much perfect now. You run streak and you run almost everything to level. This change will make that range really really dull with lots of repeating of super easy (for TR2 peps content).

Level 18-20 is a fraction of the xp in this pass on the flip side. You will lterally be able to run a few explorer areas to go from 19-20. The end of the TR cycle will be super fast and the beginning will be horrible.

This sounds far too much like this is being adjusted prejudicially to support sales of iconic characters and their hearts of wood.

[Drus-the-Axe]

Level 18-20 is a fraction of the xp in this pass on the flip side. You will lterally be able to run a few explorer areas to go from 19-20. The end of the TR cycle will be super fast and the beginning will be horrible.

Given the hard cut-off of <20 cannot enter Epic quests, this is a good thing. Level 19 is a wasteland, because of that hitch in the level/party mechanics. If you don't fix that, the XP change makes sense. The only real alternative I can see is to remove the Epic-ness 20+ required, but then you'd have level 17s (or less) running Epic quests. Like it or not, DDO has a Heroic + Epic design today, not levels 1-28.

Personally, I like the XP change. Solves some of the nastier long standing problems, in ways that well leverage the current (and foreseeable) mechanics and content.

P.S. For the record, I _like_ low level content too. But then again I'm an altoholic and don't TR often. So I see a lot of level level content, but mostly on 1st lives.

[Candela90]

Based on those new numbers, I've earned 24,007,750 more experience points than what people will now need to get to the same point.

Can I have 4 free epic past lives when they are released?

This xD Also mind that earlier there was no tomes or BB. Thats a lot already. So multi-TRed toons should gain sth.
Ofc I dont have THAT many lifes lol xD I have like 6-7. But its still a lot xp to me.

[dlsidhe]

On a TR, the first few levels will require a lot of grinding, yes.

But, on the other hand, a lot of the 1-3 quests give pretty ridiculous amounts of XP. Misery's Peak is an easy 3-4K, Kobold's New Ringleader gives over 2K on hard - even running with an over-level penalty. They're fast, they're easy, and they're abundant. A first-run through waterworks on elite gives very, very close to 20K (if I recall correctly). I'd rather have to run a variety of easy low-level quests repeatedly than endlessly farm the few 17-19 quests that give good XP, though the changes to the Lord of Stone means that I have another one in that rotation now.

[Stoner81]

I don't really have a problem with the new XP curve I would rather have to run more low level stuff than grind like crazy quests which give terrible XP, low level stuff is quick to go through and easy to maintain streaks which will boost your XP even further, add in pots, tomes etc and you will rack up XP like a hamster gathers miles on its wheel!

Stoner81.

[djl]

Even though the first few levels may take longer, the overall process of TRing should be much easier.

Requiring so much at the end, where there are only about 6 quests that give decent exp, made the last two levels extremely tedious. At lower levels, there are DOZENS of good quests -- so many, in fact, that even on a third life people would only be able to run a select amount before leveling.

[kned225]

if that's the total current xp, i'll be leaving the game soon: at low lvls the xp base SUCKS and for new players who don't have most packs(which xp base sucks too, remember) having to farm right after the tr, is a good way to avoid ppl tr'ing

if u continue with that xp curve changes, i strongly suggest u: change xp from ALL quests, now, before it's too late

This is a joke, right? An extra 30k to get to 5th is what....an hour?

[erethizon]

it's awesome.

What else is there to say?

I'm serious, this is a big bucket of whoohooo!!!

I'm almost speechless. I did not know you were even capable of feeling happiness.

Have to agree with you though. This will be a great change.

[erethizon]

Fundamentally, great change - big fan.

I hate to not just say 'it's fine, ty, gj', but I'm going to make a suggestion:

Spending longer at 1 - 5 is **** <-- not a bad word at all! Seriously? Whatever, let's pretend I'm up in arms and swearing.

1 - 5 are dead boring, lack the quests to level up smoothly with just one and done bravery runs of stuff 2 levels below, and generally is repetitive and unpleasant already. Don't make it longer.

Is it possible you could retain 1 - 5 at old xp values, and spread the difference between their adjusted values and their old values over 6 - 18? It would be a negligible change to those levels, but remove the exasperation that will come from grinding Durk's, New Ringleader and Stealthy Repo even harder than currently.

I know messing with the numbers sounds unpleasant, but making the early game longer is a genuine moderate con (albeit not one that outweighs the overall changes).

TL;DR It's excellent, but could be substantially better if you keep the low levels' xp requirements as they are.

I still plan to once-and-done my way through the game and it will now be easier than ever. The main difference is not needing to hold levels. The only change I expect to see is that running level 3 quests may no longer mean that I am level 5. That is not really a bad thing. Just because we could be two levels above the quest and still get BB does not mean we always have to be. The update will actually add a small amount of extra challenge because far more quests in the level 2-15 range will be run when I am not 2 levels above the quest. This could be a positive change for anyone looking to experience a little more challenge in a game that has gotten much easier over time. And let's not forget, this new curve is for people that are on their 3rd+ life. This means we are talking about veteran characters that are usually in twink gear. They can stand to run proof is in the poison at level 4 or 5 instead of level 6.

Another great part about the change is that it will hopefully lead to a wider range of LFM's for low level content. Another poster was complaining that this change will be bad for people that skipped all the low level packs. Well since we are talking about TR's here which get a lot of free TP every life just for running through the entire game again, it may finally be time for people to buy the low level packs they have skipped for so long. I accepted long ago that Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk were made for soloing or duoing with the girlfriend since finding people for them is very difficult. If this update does anything to fix that then woohoo for the update.

[Feithlin]

Nice. I can't tell differently, since I wrote some time ago:

Probably the most simple would be to change the % more xp of TRs as a fixed % instead on an exponential. Something like: 2nd life (1st TR) requires 50% more xp than 1st life for each rank; 3rd life and more require 100% more xp than 1st life.

[gphysalis]

This is a great change.

Some questions about implementation for current characters:

Will I suddenly be able to level to 17 if I was sitting on enough xp?

And what happens to the level 2 person without 8000 xp?

[Oxarhamar]

Way overdone on the shifting of xp from higher levels to lower levels.

Level 1-3 on TR2 is pretty much perfect now. You run streak and you run almost everything to level. This change will make that range really really dull with lots of repeating of super easy (for TR2 peps content).

Level 18-20 is a fraction of the xp in this pass on the flip side. You will lterally be able to run a few explorer areas to go from 19-20. The end of the TR cycle will be super fast and the beginning will be horrible.

This sounds far too much like this is being adjusted prejudicially to support sales of iconic characters and their hearts of wood.

This plan may also be a boon to the sales of low levels packs for those who do not purchase Iconics.

[Oxarhamar]

Given the hard cut-off of <20 cannot enter Epic quests, this is a good thing. Level 19 is a wasteland, because of that hitch in the level/party mechanics. If you don't fix that, the XP change makes sense. The only real alternative I can see is to remove the Epic-ness 20+ required, but then you'd have level 17s (or less) running Epic quests. Like it or not, DDO has a Heroic + Epic design today, not levels 1-28.

Personally, I like the XP change. Solves some of the nastier long standing problems, in ways that well leverage the current (and foreseeable) mechanics and content.

P.S. For the record, I _like_ low level content too. But then again I'm an altoholic and don't TR often. So I see a lot of level level content, but mostly on 1st lives.

Epic quests need the >20 only to enter Mechanic.

Lvl 19 is a waste land because, taking lvl 19 excludes you from running some lower content without getting an XP Penalty.
Most experienced TRs hold 18 until they cap at 20 to keep the quest options without a penalty much larger.

as soon as you train over to 19 you exclude yourself from running in many groups.

there are plenty of quest to run at lvl 17+elite on a lvl 19 Character before Epics problem is most of these quests the XP to Difficulty ratio is way off (which is being addressed)

as long as doing lvl 16 quests hard (after streak) at lvl 18 with no penalty gives more XP than running lvl >17 quests on streak most experienced are not going to take lvl 19.

*on a personal note. Even with the changes you won't find me taking lvl 19. I have capped many of my TR lives without ever leaving the Vale. I mean what was the point of going beyond Vale when MOST of the XP was worse in higher quests?

[RapkintheRanger]

A couple thoughts: When i first started DDO it took me weeks to get to level 3 and out of Korthos. I had no gear and no real understanding of how the game worked. When i TR now it takes me maybe an hour or so (i didn't really time it) but it is pretty fast to get those levels. The teens still slow me down.

I hear what people are saying about not wanting to spend so much time at level 1, but really, a bit of planning a couple quests on elite and you are there. Also: you could save some EXP from sagas and daily rolls for VIPs. Those little tokens for exp aren't worth much at level 19, but they are all you need for level 1...

In addition, the amount of EXP available at every level is no longer capped the way it used to be... so it should be good.

I appreciate it in any case.

thanks

[era42]

Level 1-3 on TR2 is pretty much perfect now. You run streak and you run almost everything to level. This change will make that range really really dull with lots of repeating of super easy (for TR2 peps content).

Another approach for the upcoming 1-3. When you hit level 2, you can do *gasp* level 2 quests on elite. Effectively level 4. There is nothing that prevents you doing that. So, do every quest once, level up when you get exp, continue doing that. Or if you prefer, you can of course repeat the cannith crystal on normal 20 times, I know I won't.

Lovely update, can't wait.