The Official Experience Curve Discussion Thread!

[SqueakofDoom]

Please use this thread to discuss the recent changes to the Experience Curve while leveling.

Current numbers on Lamannia are listed at the bottom of the Release Notes (Numbers may see further adjustment in the future.)

• It still takes 1,900,000 total XP to complete level 19 and reach level 20 on your first life.
  
  • Experience required to complete each level had been redistributed.
• Second life = 150% First Life XP
  
  • Overall XP needed to complete Second life has been decreased from what is currently on Live. (Second life characters now need 289,250 less XP to reach level 20.)
• Additional (3rd or above) life = 200% First Life XP
  
  • Overall XP needed to complete Third life (or fourth, etc.) has been decreased from what is currently on Live. (Third life characters now need 578,500 less XP to reach level 20.)

[Teh_Troll]

it's awesome.

What else is there to say?

I'm serious, this is a big bucket of whoohooo!!!

[Dunklerlindwurm]

imo nothing to discuss here

it is great

[danotmano1998]

Yeah, not much to say other than THANK YOU.

Win/Win

[ArcaneArcher52689]

mentioned elsewhere, but what will happen to characters that either have LESS experience at low level than now required, or HIGHER experience in the upper levels? Or will this not apply?

[xoowak]

Yes, two thumbs way up. As I posted in the reincarnation thread, the way the reduction is on the back end also mean a significant boots to Iconics/increase in the viability of using Iconic TR a lot.

A first life Iconic is unchanged,
A second life Iconic saves 302,500 XP (more than the 1-20 total savings)
A third+ life Iconic saves 605,000 XP (more than the 1-20 total saving)

[Scrapco]

This whole update looks great. Lots of nice bugfixes (I can *finally* get some lich dust!; visible lightning traps yay; LOD/Servants CR fixes), House C XP upgrades, and TR XP reduction. Ship it!

[FranOhmsford]

For those of us who for one reason or another cannot get on Lamannia can someone please give a rundown of the new XP requirements per Heroic Level?

Lvl 2 Currently 5k - Has this gone up and if so by how much?
Lvl 3 Currently 15k {added onto the 5k you've already got} - Has this gone up and if so by how much?
Lvl 4 30k {total 50k}
Lvl 5 40k {total 90k}
Lvl 6 50k {total 140k}
Lvl 7 60k {total 200k}
And so on!

What are the new numbers please.

[FranOhmsford]

For those of us who for one reason or another cannot get on Lamannia can someone please give a rundown of the new XP requirements per Heroic Level?

Lvl 2 Currently 5k - Has this gone up and if so by how much?
Lvl 3 Currently 15k {added onto the 5k you've already got} - Has this gone up and if so by how much?
Lvl 4 30k {total 50k}
Lvl 5 40k {total 90k}
Lvl 6 50k {total 140k}
Lvl 7 60k {total 200k}
And so on!

What are the new numbers please.

Quoting Myself - Sorry.

Having looked at the Release Notes Lvl 2 and 3 are going to be less than Current - Seems Strange.
Lvl 7 looks like it could be an issue though!

Yeah I know I've gone on and on about the sheer amount of Lvl 5 quests and others have said time and time again that 3 Barrel simply isn't needed - Well now it is!

[Asmodeus451]

mentioned elsewhere, but what will happen to characters that either have LESS experience at low level than now required, or HIGHER experience in the upper levels? Or will this not apply?

allow me to second this.

although i suppose one way to find out would be to copy a character over to Lama-land

[sirgog]

Generally positive.

I'd have been more apprehensive about this change if Haste potions hadn't been changed to ML 1 (as once you are used to high level play, levels 1 to 3 feel glacially slow even without needing ~25% more total XP due to no hjaste) but the haste pot changes address that issue.

I was actually expecting this to be 100/160/220% of the base curve rather than 100/150/200, but either work.



What happens to a character that is currently on a 36 point life and in Heroic levels when U20 hits? Is their current XP number preserved or their current rank? If the current XP number is preserved, how do you handle someone that would lose levels under the new system? (For example, a player that took level 10 as soon as they are allowed to, then stopped playing until U20). What about a player that has more XP than the new heroic level cap (e.g someone who is at 4300k XP when U20 hits)? What about a player that is holding level 18 and nearly eligible to take 19 when the update hits (they would then be beyond the point of being forced to take 19).

[QuantumFX]

Squeak - Just noticed the new avatar: LOL!!!! And just skimming the release notes: This new XP table is perfect.

mentioned elsewhere, but what will happen to characters that either have LESS experience at low level than now required, or HIGHER experience in the upper levels? Or will this not apply?

The last time the devs changed the XP tables* you kept the XP and got your level if you had enough XP to earn it.

*Back in 2006

[Deathdefy]

Fundamentally, great change - big fan.

I hate to not just say 'it's fine, ty, gj', but I'm going to make a suggestion:

Spending longer at 1 - 5 is **** <-- not a bad word at all! Seriously? Whatever, let's pretend I'm up in arms and swearing.

1 - 5 are dead boring, lack the quests to level up smoothly with just one and done bravery runs of stuff 2 levels below, and generally is repetitive and unpleasant already. Don't make it longer.

Is it possible you could retain 1 - 5 at old xp values, and spread the difference between their adjusted values and their old values over 6 - 18? It would be a negligible change to those levels, but remove the exasperation that will come from grinding Durk's, New Ringleader and Stealthy Repo even harder than currently.

I know messing with the numbers sounds unpleasant, but making the early game longer is a genuine moderate con (albeit not one that outweighs the overall changes).

TL;DR It's excellent, but could be substantially better if you keep the low levels' xp requirements as they are.

[Ilindith]

Based on those new numbers, I've earned 24,007,750 more experience points than what people will now need to get to the same point.

Can I have 4 free epic past lives when they are released?

[oradafu]

To be honest, I'm not liking what I'm seeing, especially with TR2s.

I'll explain why after showing what a TR2 needs in XP now and the proposed changes.

Total XP needed now / needed update 20
Level 01 5500 / 8000
Level 02 23500 / 32000
Level 03 62500 / 80000
Level 04 118500 / 144000
Level 05 193500 / 224000
Level 06 289500 / 320000
Level 07 408500 / 450000
Level 08 552500 / 610000
Level 09 723500 / 800000
Level 10 943500 / 1020000
Level 11 1174500 / 1260000
Level 12 1438500 / 1520000
Level 13 1737500 / 1800000
Level 14 2073500 / 2100000
Level 15 2448500 / 2420000
Level 16 2864500 / 2750000
Level 17 3323500 / 3090000
Level 18 3827500 / 3440000
Level 19 4378500 / 3800000

First, the XP needed to get out of Level 1 for a TR2 is just too punitive. Korthos and the Harbor quests would need to have their XP increased to really justify the nearly doubling of needed Level 1 xp, in my mind. Also, I'd say all the lower packs would need an XP boost, except for STK. Yes, we have more variety of quests in the lower levels, but the XP isn't good, much less great. Especially not the level 1 to 3 quests.

Second, I know people will disagree with me, but I still think levels 12 to 15 could become trouble spots since the choices of quests to play are the most limited there. Yes, we got Sands, GH and Necro along with the Coin Lords stuff, but the number of quests are quite limited. For example, the Devs are nerfing Vol's XP because it's completed "too quickly", yet the 10 quests at level 14 are all flagging quests, pre-raids or raids... Shouldn't there be a "fast" quest with decent XP at each level?

Finally, the last few levels look fine. They'd look much better if the newer quests had decent Heroic XP. Especially the failure known as the last update, the paid Expansion Shadowfell.

[psykopeta]

To be honest, I'm not liking what I'm seeing, especially with TR2s.

I'll explain why after showing what a TR2 needs in XP now and the proposed changes.

Total XP needed now / needed update 20
Level 01 5500 / 8000
Level 02 23500 / 32000
Level 03 62500 / 80000
Level 04 118500 / 144000
Level 05 193500 / 224000
Level 06 289500 / 320000
Level 07 408500 / 450000
Level 08 552500 / 610000
Level 09 723500 / 800000
Level 10 943500 / 1020000
Level 11 1174500 / 1260000
Level 12 1438500 / 1520000
Level 13 1737500 / 1800000
Level 14 2073500 / 2100000
Level 15 2448500 / 2420000
Level 16 2864500 / 2750000
Level 17 3323500 / 3090000
Level 18 3827500 / 3440000
Level 19 4378500 / 3800000

First, the XP needed to get out of Level 1 for a TR2 is just too punitive. Korthos and the Harbor quests would need to have their XP increased to really justify the nearly doubling of needed Level 1 xp, in my mind. Also, I'd say all the lower packs would need an XP boost, except for STK. Yes, we have more variety of quests in the lower levels, but the XP isn't good, much less great. Especially not the level 1 to 3 quests.

Second, I know people will disagree with me, but I still think levels 12 to 15 could become trouble spots since the choices of quests to play are the most limited there. Yes, we got Sands, GH and Necro along with the Coin Lords stuff, but the number of quests are quite limited. For example, the Devs are nerfing Vol's XP because it's completed "too quickly", yet the 10 quests at level 14 are all flagging quests, pre-raids or raids... Shouldn't there be a "fast" quest with decent XP at each level?

Finally, the last few levels look fine. They'd look much better if the newer quests had decent Heroic XP. Especially the failure known as the last update, the paid Expansion Shadowfell.

if that's the total current xp, i'll be leaving the game soon: at low lvls the xp base SUCKS and for new players who don't have most packs(which xp base sucks too, remember) having to farm right after the tr, is a good way to avoid ppl tr'ing anymore

also, otto box, from what i see, otto+voice+xp shrine+50% pot will throw you past 19, which must say, i don't care

the trouble with lvling were lvl 15 AND 16, because u were forced to farm the lvl 13 and 14 quests (which are the lest in number among rest of lvls), with saga u solved the lvl 15 trouble, just needed to reduce both lvls a bit, let's say 100k each and would be solved the trouble of tr'ing

what can't be is having so many quests, so many packs, that capping a toon will be that easy, u won't sell packs, u won't sell otto's, and also, the worst part (and by far) went to ALL the lower lvls, so we had to farm before at lvl 15 and 16, that was 2 days, now will have to farm from 1 to 10?

if u wanna make ddo more solo friendly i can understand it, at lower lvls, where quests are easier force the farm, and at higher lvls with really few quests (in 2 lvls u have concentrated the 30% of the total reduction lol) be able to cap

you simply won't sell more packs like amrath, house c, druid deep, high rood, nor wheloon prison+storm horn

reason? there's no need to run em, only loot, and we know in next release it will be outdated

so pls, tocuh ONLY lvl 15 and 16 xp, reduce 100k each and u won't lose so much money (17-20 can be reduced a bit too, so u avoid that huge difference between 15-16 and the rest of lvls, however isn't needed)

if u continue with that xp curve changes, i strongly suggest u: change xp from ALL quests, now, before it's too late

also, using a formula to calculate the xp for 20 lvls, isn't the best method, some manual adjustment is needed to make it smoother

[Zirun]

To be honest, I'm not liking what I'm seeing, especially with TR2s.

I'll explain why after showing what a TR2 needs in XP now and the proposed changes.

Total XP needed now / needed update 20
Level 01 5500 / 8000
Level 02 23500 / 32000
Level 03 62500 / 80000
Level 04 118500 / 144000
Level 05 193500 / 224000
Level 06 289500 / 320000
Level 07 408500 / 450000
Level 08 552500 / 610000
Level 09 723500 / 800000
Level 10 943500 / 1020000
Level 11 1174500 / 1260000
Level 12 1438500 / 1520000
Level 13 1737500 / 1800000
Level 14 2073500 / 2100000
Level 15 2448500 / 2420000
Level 16 2864500 / 2750000
Level 17 3323500 / 3090000
Level 18 3827500 / 3440000
Level 19 4378500 / 3800000

First, the XP needed to get out of Level 1 for a TR2 is just too punitive. Korthos and the Harbor quests would need to have their XP increased to really justify the nearly doubling of needed Level 1 xp, in my mind. Also, I'd say all the lower packs would need an XP boost, except for STK. Yes, we have more variety of quests in the lower levels, but the XP isn't good, much less great. Especially not the level 1 to 3 quests.

Doing all level 1 quests on Elite once each will still get you to level 2 (base XP on Elite for all level 1 quests combined is about 4k, + BB + first time Elite + other bonuses). Same with level 2 quests (~14k base XP total), and it's closer but plausible for level 3 quests (~20k base XP total). The main difference will be that if you want to be 2 levels over a quest (at level on Elite) like pretty much everybody is right now, you have to grind for that specifically. But to simply level by doing quests your level once each, there's roughly enough to do exactly that.

The main problem will be starting at level 3 for people who don't have (the good) packs. We might have to start recommending new players pick up some low- and mid-level packs if they're TRing...

The numbers also don't look quite so bad when you look at how much XP you need per level, which is a better measuring tool, as the XP needed for lower levels only matters in this context when you're running quests above your level...which will probably happen more often, granted, but it's easiest to just ignore that for now.

XP to blue bar TR2 now / update 20
Level 01 5500 / 8000
Level 02 18000 / 24000
Level 03 39000 / 48000
Level 04 56000 / 64000
Level 05 75000 / 80000
Level 06 96000 / 96000
Level 07 119000 / 130000
Level 08 144000 / 160000
Level 09 171000 / 190000
Level 10 220000 / 220000
Level 11 231000 / 240000
Level 12 264000 / 260000
Level 13 299000 / 280000
Level 14 336000 / 300000
Level 15 375000 / 320000
Level 16 416000 / 330000
Level 17 459000 / 340000
Level 18 504000 / 350000
Level 19 551000 / 360000

Levels 1-3 are indeed the roughest. A relatively small shift (a couple thousand XP from each level) towards higher levels would fix that entirely while still keeping all the benefits of this change... though it'll take a little work to make the numbers pretty. Should be a relatively simple change to make... though I have my doubts it'll actually be done, given how infrequently problems brought up on Lamma are fixed before live. Just a simple -2k/-4k/-4k XP needed for levels 1/2/3 and added on to level 19, but then again, they are using a formula and not custom numbers for this, so... Here's hoping, though.

This also almost exclusively impacts TR2+ characters, as first-life characters are barely impacted and TR1s have fairly small increases in the problem areas.

This is all assuming, of course, that XP in these quests aren't changed in any way. Apparently some quests not listed on the change list have different XP values on live than on Lamma, so... who knows.

[silinteresting]

superb, just what the doctor ordered.
thankyou

your friend sil

[silinteresting]

i see and hear a few people saying 1-5 is gonna be abit rough
and were gonna have to spend longer there(i agree). well wasnt there
a thread a while back where a dev said that the trouble spot
for keeping new players was the about these levels. so isnt this
then from that perspective a good idea?

just a thought.

your friend sil

[Razahe]

In general i like the lowered XP, though i am not a big fan of the now very front loaded XP needed (never hat an issue with the backloaded XP nowadays).

Basically up to Level 14 you need more XP than before. My main reason why this is a bad choice is that low level action, while not really boring, is not that exciting. After a few TRs you realize that no matter which class you play, the first Levels all play quite similar as the certain strengths of your build are not avaible yet. I.e. most of the lifes you do, it is most effective to just use a two handed weapon and beat stuff down until you got the real abilities your build provides. Works for divines and casters quite a while, melees, well are melee anyways, might use twf style a bit earlier. So basically if you play any kind of caster, you have to wait longer until you can play real casterstyle. So please reconsider this, if i want to nuke stuff with spells i dont want to wait until i am almost ready to TR again

I would have just scaled down the old xp curve so you hit the new maximum XP at the end. After all you upped the XP on several highlevel quests, now that you need the XP in early levels *g*

In terms of just leveling speed and grinding issues, we will just have to learn that we dont need to bank each level anymore and level up in time as it is not needed anymore for the late levels (which was the reason to start banking at all)