Eldritch Knight Enhancements

[oradafu]

I think 12, as that gets recon and tenders. Also, could see some pm ek folks, esp with all that prr on a lich.

Agreed. But I was just pointing out that this tree is another non-melee tree that does better general damage than paladins. Eldritch Knights and Warpriest get better damage bonuses again neutral mobs than Pure Paladins. Yet the Devs have stated what players who play paladins are asking for too much?!

[sephiroth1084]

Hate to say it as much as I like the concept this just cant work Wizards and Sorcerers don't have enough BAB to take the TWF or THF feats and have to wait till 15+ for Improved Critical.

If you want a Wizard or Sorcerer to play like a melee they need to be able to pick on one of TWF or THF feat lines. Even with Heavy multi-classing 12 Wizard/ 8 Fighter it will be hard to fit the feet you need in at the right levels. This thing could do it but its still only max BAB of 14.

I would suggest adding one of the TWF, THF or a choice of feat lines virtually to the core enh (1,6,12 or 3,12,18). Virtually meaning you don't actually get the feat so If you're a 3 Eldritch Knight 8 Kensei you would still need to take the real feat to pick up the next one in the line.

Or lower remove BAB requirement on the THF and TWF feats and replace them with character level requirements.

I'd say that there should be a line of enhancements going up from, say, tier 2 to tier 4, multi-selector, costing 2 AP each, wherein you select TWF, THF or S&B and are granted TWF/THF/Shield Mastery at the first tier, ITWF/ITHF/ISM at the second, and GTWF/GTHF/Improved Shield Bash at the third. The TWF line would require the same Dex requirements that the feats do (15/15/17), ditto for the THF line regarding Str. S&B is the easiest to get into, which seems to be the way the tree is pushing anyway, while THF is probably second easiest, as you'll want Str anyway. You could skirt THF by picking up Cleave and Great Cleave and using those instead, which is what a lot of characters do anyway.

I'll agree that the Mage Armor/Shield enhancements appear to be in contrast with the armor/shield proficiency and ASF reduction enhancements, and the tree is therefore bloated by these contradictory enhancements that few people are likely to want both of. Maybe combine them into a multi-picker? Mage Armor or Armor proficiency and ASF reduction/Shield or Shield proficiency and ASF reduction?

The core enhancements look incredibly dull. Compare those to the Arcane Archer Elemental Arrow imbues. That's what they should be mimicking--a line of enhancements going up the tiers with a tier 5 capper that improves them or builds on them (maybe allows two to be active at once?).

The PrE definitely needs some bonus on to-hit. Maybe stick +2 attack in each of the core abilities?

I'm also kind of disappointed to not see an ability allowing the usage of Int/Cha for at the very least attack, if not also damage, with a group of weapons. This could be all weapons, or weapons tied to the aforementioned combat style selection (two-handed weapons, one-handed weapons, one-handed weapons and shields), or could have a requirement of Weapon Focus and then a Kensei-style enhancement to narrow down you selection.

[Satyriasys]

True, have to be careful though, don't want to turn them into fighters with spells. They need to have a disadvantage somewhere.

[sirgog]

Hate to say it as much as I like the concept this just cant work Wizards and Sorcerers don't have enough BAB to take the TWF or THF feats and have to wait till 15+ for Improved Critical.

If you want a Wizard or Sorcerer to play like a melee they need to be able to pick on one of TWF or THF feat lines. Even with Heavy multi-classing 12 Wizard/ 8 Fighter it will be hard to fit the feet you need in at the right levels. This thing could do it but its still only max BAB of 14.

I would suggest adding one of the TWF, THF or a choice of feat lines virtually to the core enh (1,6,12 or 3,12,18). Virtually meaning you don't actually get the feat so If you're a 3 Eldritch Knight 8 Kensei you would still need to take the real feat to pick up the next one in the line.

Or lower remove BAB requirement on the THF and TWF feats and replace them with character level requirements.

Agreed. I also do not see any way for an EK to get the HP and PRR needed to melee in EE content.

Not sure how to balance the feat issue, however, as getting decent melee needs to have significant costs in the ability to take spell focus feats for balance reasons.

[QuantumFX]

1. So is there any shenanigans involving the doublestrike only working with a single handed weapon or anything like that?

2. When are we going to finally see some **** racial PrEs? I could totally use this PrE to make a fun melee artificer.

[Charononus]

Agreed. I also do not see any way for an EK to get the HP and PRR needed to melee in EE content.

Not sure how to balance the feat issue, however, as getting decent melee needs to have significant costs in the ability to take spell focus feats for balance reasons.

My only thought is that a ek to actually use the enhancments as stated would have to splash significant fighter and monk levels probably 8 fighter and 2 monk with 10 wiz or sorc levels. grand master of earth, with ironskin and improved shielding could get a 40prr I think before gear. Needing to take one with the blade though means that they can't take t5 ek enhancements. But that means umding tensors and gh. That means imo that a warchanter with divine might will probably be a stronger dps option imo. When you get beat by a bard.....

[Trillea]

I can see some huge potential in a 12 sorc/6 monk/2 pally Sireth build here..

[Maelodic]

I'm honestly not sure what to think of this tree.
The perma-tensers is nice, but as stated, you can't really be a melee wizard/melee sorc without some huge splashes.

[EssenceofEvil]

Did a interesting test...the spellsword damage enhancements stack with AA ones.

[Exiledtyrant]

definitely need a way to get the 11 bab feats before 21. Hopefully the temp HP idea can be expanded on. Wizards can always bite off of the pale master tree for some extra hp and con Sorc are not so lucky.

[Havok.cry]

Hate to say it as much as I like the concept this just cant work Wizards and Sorcerers don't have enough BAB to take the TWF or THF feats and have to wait till 15+ for Improved Critical.

If you want a Wizard or Sorcerer to play like a melee they need to be able to pick on one of TWF or THF feat lines. Even with Heavy multi-classing 12 Wizard/ 8 Fighter it will be hard to fit the feet you need in at the right levels. This thing could do it but its still only max BAB of 14.

Power attack, cleave, great cleave done. Add in some quicken, maximize, empower, and you still have a feat left in your heroic levels.

[Firewall]

The core enhancement toggles don't work with throwing weapons. Even though they say it works on equipped weapons. If they are not meant to work on ranged weapons at all the description should be clarified. I see a lot more Tukaw Builds coming with this enhancement tree.

[Garix]

The enhancements that reduce ASF are not effecting Warforged in Adamantine armour

The Arcane Barrier requires 3 levels of Wizard in the Sorcerer tree?!

At least I hope these are bugs......

[Charononus]

The enhancements that reduce ASF are not effecting Warforged in Adamantine armour

The Arcane Barrier requires 3 levels of Wizard in the Sorcerer tree?!

At least I hope these are bugs......

The asf thing is a bug arti's have had too since their release.

[Arlathen]

I foresee many 6 wizard or 6 sorcerer splashes on melee builds in the future. I wonder whether spending 40 AP in this tree on a melee for more than 40% double-strike is worth more than what you're losing in the trees from combat classes.

What's the highest possible double-strike that can be attained in the game now? Something like 80% when using a shield? I think dual-wielding comes close when not considering off-hand attacks.

6 wizard/6 monk/8 fighter?

There already my friend, running Ranger 12 / Sorcerer 6 / Fighter 2 Half-Elf on my current Stormbringer.

I'm feeling pretty good about swapping my 34AP from Air Savant to Eldritch Knight right about now Although my Energy Burst will lose a little in terms of explosiveness, I'll actually gain more in terms of Defenses, Doublestrike and of ocurse, MOAR Electric Damage (Eldritch Strike with Electric Spellsword!). Eldritch Storm looks pretty interesting too...

I'm just working out how to get Force, Electric and Devotion spell power onto my accessories, as my weapons are ear-marked out purely for DPS... Flawless Blue, EE Belt of the Seven Ideals and Halcyon Boots are my starting points but seeing downsides to all three over what I already have...

[RavenStormclaw]

This is just a theory but consider PDK 16/2/2 sorcerer/paladin/rogue or monk. Rogue gives you evasion and UMD. 2 paladin gives you divine grace and LOH. 16 sorcerer...well that's obvious. PDK gives charisma to hit and damage with select weapons. So you can go full charisma and get decent dcs, decent to hit and damage, and with divine grace insane saves. Thru the roof umd. Evasion. PRR will be an issue as well as AC.However displacement will help. For feats assume rogue for the umd. That gives 7 heroic feats.

PA
Cleave
Great cleave
IC slashing
maximize
empower
extend
drop great cleave and pick up quicken or heighten as a possibility.

[Vellrad]

This is just a theory but consider PDK 16/2/2 sorcerer/paladin/rogue or monk. Rogue gives you evasion and UMD. 2 paladin gives you divine grace and LOH. 16 sorcerer...well that's obvious. PDK gives charisma to hit and damage with select weapons. So you can go full charisma and get decent dcs, decent to hit and damage, and with divine grace insane saves. Thru the roof umd. Evasion. PRR will be an issue as well as AC.However displacement will help. For feats assume rogue for the umd. That gives 7 heroic feats.

PA
Cleave
Great cleave
IC slashing
maximize
empower
extend
drop great cleave and pick up quicken or heighten as a possibility.

That's assuming you can get rid of 1 ftr level.

[RavenStormclaw]

That's assuming you can get rid of 1 ftr level.

I think you can if you reincarnate into an iconic.

[Vellrad]

I think you can if you reincarnate into an iconic.

You will start at lvl15.

[Failedlegend]

Here's what I'm thinking

Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent
Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG(multi-selector to try avoiding bugs of only one working)
Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
Core 12 Tensers Toggle
Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof & Tower Shield Prof
Core 20 Immunity to ASF, +25 Force SP, +2 Int or Cha

Tier 1

- Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and ASF Reduction
- Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
- Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
- Battlemage: +1 Concen/Intim/Balance



Tier 2

- Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and ASF Reduction
- TWF, THF, Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (bonus when using 1-handed weapon and wizard orb) multi-selector choose one
- Martial Weapon Prof & 3/6/10% Doublestrike
- Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC

Tier 3

- +1 Any Stat
- Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)
- Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)

Tier 4

- ITWF, ITHF, Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
- + 1 Any Stats
- Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect)
- Still Spell (-5/10/15% Spell Failure)

Tier 5

- GTWF, GTHF, Improved Shield Bash or Perfect Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
- Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
- Improved Tenser's Toggle (reduces penalties and increase benefits)
- Eldritch Tempest

Not really sure what to do with the Eldritch Combatant but following other prestige classes would work.

Maybe something like this

EC: +X to enhancement bonus for the Wizard Orb and your 1-handed weapon
IEC: +1 to Crit range, Any 1-handed weapon is treated as a implement
PEC: Allow Spellpower to apply to your weapon effects.

X= no idea, any suggestions...maybe 1/4 character level?

Maybe limit to 1-h "Sword-like" weapons?? (Longsword,Shortsword, B-Sword, and Scimitar)