Mr Sticky Buddy (13Rog/6M/1druid Halfling) concept for comparison to H-ORC STR build

[Inoukchuk]

stats (halfling 13Rog/6M/1druid):
STR 14 (needed: PA:13 at 2, THF:15 at 5, ITHF:17 at 15)
DEX 20
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 8
on 34pt build lower str to 13 if you have +4 tome, on 32 lower wis to 8 also
Easily swaps to elf if you prefer shadow (displacement) to healing/saves

progression/feats:
1 - R - dragonmark (healing)
2 - M - PA
3 - R - cleave
4 - R
5 - M - THF
6 - R - GC
7 - D
8 - M
9 - R - empower heal
10 - M
11 - R
12 - M - IC: Bludgeon
13 - M - dodge (adept of forms)
14 - R
15 - R - ITF
16 - R
17 - R - (imp evasion)
18 - R - GTF
19 - R
20 - R - (opportunist)
21 - master of forms
24 - imp sneak att
27 - blinding speed ? PTHF ? Tactician ?


Enhancements:
Halfling (18):
3 - Luck
4 - Dex II
3 - dragonmark focus
2 - lesser (healing)
2 - break out the leeches
2 - greater (healing)
2 - dodge

Acrobat(39):

1 - staff control
1 - stick fighting
1 - tumbler
1 - kip up
2 - staff training
3 - theif acrobatics
2 - staff training
6 - quick strikes
6 - haste boost
4 - dex II

2 - staff training
6 - sweeping strikes
2 - staff training
2 - staff specialization

Henshin(12):

1 - riddle of fire
2 - staff training
2 - animal form (tortoise?)
2 - staff training
2 - fists of iron
1 - contemplation
2 - staff training

Ninja(11):
1 - basic ninja training
3 - acrobatic
2 - sneak att training -2
2 - sneak att training -2
1 - Agility - 1
1 - advanced ninja training - 1
1 - Shadow Veil - 1

DEX(48) - 20 base + 4 enh + 4 tome + 2 ship + 6 level up + 8 item + 3 insightful +1 exceptional = 48 (+19)

Damage:
+28 - DEX*1.5
+6 - acrobat tree
+4 - henshin tree

+2 - ship buff (bugbear)
+2 - ram's might

+6 - deadly VI item
+10 - power attack
=58
Stout Oak:
+41 - base dice 6+5[2d6] (1.5 dance of flowers, .5 imp PA, 1 shillelagh)
=99 17-20/x5, 19-20/x7 + fracturing (7) + felling the oak

Sireth:
+31.5 - base dice 7+4.5[1d10] (1.5 dance of flowers, .5 imp PA)
=89.5 13-20/x3, 19-20/x5 + Sup Good (10.5) + Lit (9.15) + Clouburst (8.75) + FoM

Gains (over Carry a Big Stick H-Orc STR build):
+6(7) dodge
+12 reflex
+4 will
+3 fort
healing (dragon mark + druid level 1 + emp healing) + neg level removal
+2 SA dice

[Caprice]

It is a minor point since this is a proof of concept build for endgame, but if anyone tries to make one like I did there is a hitch in the early Feat vs. BAB progression. GC is listed at level 6 but it requires BAB +4, which you do not get until level 7 with the published class progression. Pushing the Druid level down to 7 (i.e. R M R M R M D) lets you take all the Feats as listed, or you can stay with the posted class progression and take Emp Healing at 6 and wait until 9 for GC. Both options have their merits.

[Inoukchuk]

It is a minor point since this is a proof of concept build for endgame, but if anyone tries to make one like I did there is a hitch in the early Feat vs. BAB progression. GC is listed at level 6 but it requires BAB +4, which you do not get until level 7 with the published class progression. Pushing the Druid level down to 7 (i.e. R M R M R M D) lets you take all the Feats as listed, or you can stay with the posted class progression and take Emp Healing at 6 and wait until 9 for GC. Both options have their merits.

Good catch. Any feedback on the build itself?

[Caprice]

Good catch. Any feedback on the build itself?

Probably not anything useful. I am such a terrible altoholic that I have yet to get a character into epic progression so there is not much point in having me speculate on end game optimization, and it seems like a pretty tight build to me already. I was excited enough to make a compromised version of the build the same day, so it is safe to say I like what I see.

I am not 100% sure but think your stat buys may be slightly off - for a halfling with 14/20/14/12/10/8 I count 38 points spent. If you happened to have reincarnated with a +4 STR tome and are willing to swap when you pick up your THF and Dodge feats, then you can get away with dropping STR to 13. You'd have STR15 at level 7 and STR17 at level 15, which works out for picking up THF at Monk 6 (level 13) and ITHF at 15. I consider the THFs to be a bit unimportant while leveling anyway; I rarely stand still when I am fighting so I do not see that as a problem, but YMMV. If you only have the implied +3 you can easily drop WIS a couple points instead and rely on items and/or tomes to see you through. You are only casting level 1 spells anyway, and +1 Will saves probably is not going to make or break anything, but since you do not need the STR for anything else but the Feat requirements you might as well make it as low as you can. Taking a +4 this life will not help much, since you can't use it until after you would have needed it, but you could always move Master of Forms up to level 15 and push I/GTHF back to 18 and 21.

For leveling I would also be tempted to squeeze down the Monk levels a bit sooner. I feel like you get a lot out of Monk 6 between Shadow Veil and Adept (plus a little runspeed and better earlier saves). You want Rogue 3 ASAP for the DEX to attacks with staves, but also want to spread the Rogue levels out to keep up skills, but I think you can probably move up Monk 6 at least one level more without making skills lag too much. Maybe R M R M R M D R M M R M R ... R?

You mention Elf as an alternate option but I think that Halfling is much better in the long run for the build as presented. The better saves, status removal, and the synergy of having Empower Healing for both DM self-heals and later on for Cocoon really stand out. As an elf you really want Extend for your displacement DMs, and I don't see anything expendable on the feat list to squeeze that in too. A Halfling can also drop the DMs and pick up the racial Sneak Attack enhancements to put out a bit more DPS. Elves get up to 6% more hit, and Skill is quite nice (3% doublestrike, dodge, and dodge bypass), but without having seen or done any math it just does not feel as powerful (but I may be wrong).

However, FWIW for my 32-pt 1st life vet2 experiment I did go Elf. Qualifying for the THF feats on a 32-pt DEX-based Halfling is just a bit too rough for me. I think I ended up with 15/18/12/14/10/8; that puts me just a +2 STR tome away from the I/GTHF feats, and the extra starting INT helps a lot with the skill points without having tomes to bolster those. I'm also trying a R M M R M M D R M M R ... R progression to get Monk 6 at level 10. The STR/DEX disparity isn't as wide so I am pretending to be STR-based for now, and I hope that my knowledge of the quests will help me get away with the lagging skills. However the feats are as you have laid out, except that I am picking Extend for now for the longer Displacement DMs. I will probably think about swapping to Empower Healing somewhere in the epic levels ... if a shiny new build doesn't distract me first. [Hint: One always does! ;-)]

[DareDelvis]

Howdy,

Something to consider is that the last update made it so enhancements of the same name from stacking e.g. Staff Training.

I have a halfling acrobat and have used a dex/str to get overwhelming crit and pure strength, did not notice much difference but that is because the spread of points was not significant .

Also, for the last week I went up Henshin since I don't find Vault or Staff Lunge helpful vs points spent. I have been using Every Light Casts a Shadow which is cool as long as you remember to have death ward going.

[Inoukchuk]

Probably not anything useful. I am such a terrible altoholic that I have yet to get a character into epic progression so there is not much point in having me speculate on end game optimization, and it seems like a pretty tight build to me already. I was excited enough to make a compromised version of the build the same day, so it is safe to say I like what I see.

I am not 100% sure but think your stat buys may be slightly off - for a halfling with 14/20/14/12/10/8 I count 38 points spent. If you happened to have reincarnated with a +4 STR tome and are willing to swap when you pick up your THF and Dodge feats, then you can get away with dropping STR to 13. You'd have STR15 at level 7 and STR17 at level 15, which works out for picking up THF at Monk 6 (level 13) and ITHF at 15. I consider the THFs to be a bit unimportant while leveling anyway; I rarely stand still when I am fighting so I do not see that as a problem, but YMMV. If you only have the implied +3 you can easily drop WIS a couple points instead and rely on items and/or tomes to see you through. You are only casting level 1 spells anyway, and +1 Will saves probably is not going to make or break anything, but since you do not need the STR for anything else but the Feat requirements you might as well make it as low as you can. Taking a +4 this life will not help much, since you can't use it until after you would have needed it, but you could always move Master of Forms up to level 15 and push I/GTHF back to 18 and 21.

For leveling I would also be tempted to squeeze down the Monk levels a bit sooner. I feel like you get a lot out of Monk 6 between Shadow Veil and Adept (plus a little runspeed and better earlier saves). You want Rogue 3 ASAP for the DEX to attacks with staves, but also want to spread the Rogue levels out to keep up skills, but I think you can probably move up Monk 6 at least one level more without making skills lag too much. Maybe R M R M R M D R M M R M R ... R?

You mention Elf as an alternate option but I think that Halfling is much better in the long run for the build as presented. The better saves, status removal, and the synergy of having Empower Healing for both DM self-heals and later on for Cocoon really stand out. As an elf you really want Extend for your displacement DMs, and I don't see anything expendable on the feat list to squeeze that in too. A Halfling can also drop the DMs and pick up the racial Sneak Attack enhancements to put out a bit more DPS. Elves get up to 6% more hit, and Skill is quite nice (3% doublestrike, dodge, and dodge bypass), but without having seen or done any math it just does not feel as powerful (but I may be wrong).

However, FWIW for my 32-pt 1st life vet2 experiment I did go Elf. Qualifying for the THF feats on a 32-pt DEX-based Halfling is just a bit too rough for me. I think I ended up with 15/18/12/14/10/8; that puts me just a +2 STR tome away from the I/GTHF feats, and the extra starting INT helps a lot with the skill points without having tomes to bolster those. I'm also trying a R M M R M M D R M M R ... R progression to get Monk 6 at level 10. The STR/DEX disparity isn't as wide so I am pretending to be STR-based for now, and I hope that my knowledge of the quests will help me get away with the lagging skills. However the feats are as you have laid out, except that I am picking Extend for now for the longer Displacement DMs. I will probably think about swapping to Empower Healing somewhere in the epic levels ... if a shiny new build doesn't distract me first. [Hint: One always does! ;-)]

What, you don't have 38 pt builds yet? Nice to know you made one from this build thread =)

Great feedback, I will probably implement most of it! I think at some point I realized going 14 str was a good idea for the progression but forgot to lower int to accommodate. As you point out, 13 str works if you push back THF, or you could lower int to 10 if you are okay with a touch fewer skills. Would love to get STR to 21 for OC, but it's just not practical on a halfling dex build (though I think I included OC in damage calculations, so they'll be a touch lower than anticipated).

Elf should be viable, but I agree not as good which is why I made the example build halfling. Displacement is a fairly strong replacement for healing you lose, especially getting cocoon at epic levels, but you lose saves and status removal which are important throughout.

*Edit - and yes I have +4 tomes for all stats but I prefer not to base the build on that in case others don't*

[Inoukchuk]

Modified OP with corrections based on feedback.