Gingerspyce's caster/healer/quasi-tank build

[Vooduspyce]

Not necessarily - I'd just like to be able to swing and hit things while the storm is raging, basically, so I'd still want to have good enough DC for earthquake and enough power for the spells to do a bit more than tickle. I'm not sure if the best route to take is to keep with the shield mastery feats, raise STR a bit, and then switch forms and beat on things or stay in perma wolf with the NW T5s and just cast the storms from there, and then beat on things.

I'm still trying to figure out how to stay a viable AoE/DoT/Earthquake CC caster while still being able to melee effectively and heal well. Druid seems to be the closest thing possible but I'm still struggling to build it.

I am reminded of the conversation from about a week ago in Greyheartt's "Pure Druid HELP!!" post. I think that you can achieve all of this and be very effective in epic and legendary normal and hard questing. But if you are wanting to do epic and legendary elites and want to be more than a party support role, then you will probably end up being frustrated because I think trying to do all these things is spreading a druid's resources too thin. I personally love the versatility of druid and the fact that I can effectively perform a variety of roles. But I know that I'm not going to be the best and the fastest at any one of those roles when I build this way. If you're wanting to do epic and legendary elites then I think you're going to have to make a more distinctive choice between melee and caster. If you're mostly doing epic and legendary normal and hard questing then you will have a lot more wiggle room to play with and diversify.

[Maelodic]

I am reminded of the conversation from about a week ago in Greyheartt's "Pure Druid HELP!!" post. I think that you can achieve all of this and be very effective in epic and legendary normal and hard questing. But if you are wanting to do epic and legendary elites and want to be more than a party support role, then you will probably end up being frustrated because I think trying to do all these things is spreading a druid's resources too thin. I personally love the versatility of druid and the fact that I can effectively perform a variety of roles. But I know that I'm not going to be the best and the fastest at any one of those roles when I build this way. If you're wanting to do epic and legendary elites then I think you're going to have to make a more distinctive choice between melee and caster. If you're mostly doing epic and legendary normal and hard questing then you will have a lot more wiggle room to play with and diversify.

Thank you for your advice. I think if I'm going to be doing LE stuff, I'll need to meta a bit more and build something similar to what you have. I think being okay with not being min maxed is something that I shouldn't stress over.

[Vooduspyce]

Thank you for your advice. I think if I'm going to be doing LE stuff, I'll need to meta a bit more and build something similar to what you have. I think being okay with not being min maxed is something that I shouldn't stress over.

I should also add that Ginger does really well in Legendary Elites with a party, but struggles with them solo. We only have 2 legendary elite quests atm, but just want to make sure that you don't have false expectations. I was able to solo LE Creeping Death on Ginger, but it took me an hour and all my sp clickies to do so. I could not solo LE To Curse the Sky in my regular destiny because the abishai are highly immune or resistant to a druid's primary damage types. I was able to switch to Exalted Angel and solo it but it took a long time because I had to perpetually wait for Sun Bolt and Divine Wrath to come off timer. I am very much hoping for an abishai-free 2016 :P

[unbongwah]

I'm still trying to figure out how to stay a viable AoE/DoT/Earthquake CC caster while still being able to melee effectively and heal well.

Define "effective melee DPS." As we've discussed ad nauseam in other threads, trying to have good melee DPS and good caster DPS is pulling your build in two separate directions. [At least Harper Wizards get to make INT into their caster DC, melee dmg, and Reflex stat all in one; plus get up to 5 bonus feats to help out there. Druids aren't so lucky. ] In the good ol' days, unarmed Drunks were solid: subpar melee DPS, but high Stunning Fist DCs to complement your caster DPS; i.e., stun a foe, drop your spells on it, enjoy your bonus helpless dmg. But I haven't seen anyone play an unarmed Drunk in a long time, if only because exploit-y wolf builds stole their thunder.

Of course, this is not to say it's impossible to combine the two, even on a pure druid; just that you need to be aware of the tradeoffs you're making in order to have a more versatile build. So let's take a look at a modified version of a druid build I had been using, updated for U29. It's a SWF wolf build focused on spellcasting: first-life friendly, if not EE/LE viable.

SWF Druid
Druid 20
True Neutral Human


Stats
               28pt     32pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        14       14       4: WIS
Dexterity        8        8       8: WIS
Constitution    14       16      12: WIS
Intelligence     8        8      16: WIS
Wisdom          18       18      20: WIS
Charisma         8        8      24: WIS
                                 28: WIS

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Heal                                             2     2     2     2   8
Balance   1  1     1     1     1     1     1                           7
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         16  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4


Feats

 1        : Maximize Spell
 1 Human  : Empower Spell
 2 Druid  : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
 3        : Single Weapon Fighting
 5 Druid  : Wild Shape 1: Bear
 6        : Quicken Spell
 8 Druid  : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
 9        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
11 Druid  : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
12        : Heighten Spell OR Power Attack
13 Druid  : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental
15        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
17 Druid  : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental
18        : Spell Focus: Evocation
21 Epic   : Wellspring of Power OR Empower Healing Spell
24 Epic   : Intensify Spell OR Master of Wilds
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Ruin OR Burst of Glacial Wrath
28 Destiny: Mass Frog OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Arcane Pulse
30 Epic   : Greater Ruin OR Embolden Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air OR Fire


Enhancements (80 AP)

Season's Herald (49 AP)

Seasoned, Time, Tide, Sunburst, Storm of Vengeance, Heirophant
Season's Greetings: Winter III, Beguile III, Wax and Wane
Efficient Maximize III, Produce Flame III, Wax and Wane, Spellpower Boost III
Creeping Cold III, Wax and Wane
Call Lightning III, Wax and Wane
Crown of Summer, Winter's Heart, Word of Balance III, Time and Tide, Strength of the Solstice

Nature's Warrior (23 AP)

Nature's Warrior, Instinctive Fighting, Instinctive Fighting II, Instinctive Fighting III
Extra Wild Empathy III, Athletic I
Flight III, Vengeful Hunter I, Double Strike Boost III
Fight III, Fatal Harrier III
Essence of the Shrike II

Human (8 AP)

Damage Boost, Wisdom
Improved Recovery
Traditionalist Caster III


Destiny (24 AP)

Shiradi Champion

Wild Shots III, Healing Spring III, Illusion of Well Being I, Wisdom
Prism, Fey Spring I, Fey Form I
Rainbow
Double Rainbow
Nerve Venom III
Audience with the Queen, Rain of Arrows

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Empyrean Magic (Tier 3 Crusader)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
School Specialist: Evocation (Tier 2 Magister)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

A few comments about my build decisions:

• This build avoids the TWF exploits to use SWF instead; the +30% atk speed from GSWF stacks with the +30% atk speed from wolf form. This lets me equip an orb in my offhand, which in turn enables me to take Traditionalist Caster for an extra +10 Spellpower. Drawback is druids can't use metal orbs, so Thunderforged orbs are a no-go, as is Golden Orb of Death.
• Why no Improved Crit:Blunt + Overwhelming Crit? Partly because if you equip an Impact weapon, the effect carries over to wolf form; partly because of U28.2 balance pass, wolf form only goes to 18-20/x3 w/IC:B instead of 17-20/x3 (so it's not as big of a DPS increase as it used to be, unfortunately); and partly because this build will have relatively low base dmg, which means it won't get as much oomph from crit bonuses as other builds. Staying pure for capstone means being feat-starved; something had to give and I decided to focus my feats on the caster side of things. Your melee DPS will instead focus on proc-on-hit effects like sneak atks (6d6 in wolf form) and weapon effects to take advantage of your high atk speed.
• That being said, the real goal of wolf form here isn't the melee DPS; it's the temp SPs from EotShrike which will help fuel your spells. Unfortunately, without Natural Adept, your spells suffer from 2.5x cooldown penalty; fortunately, your SLAs are not effected by this penalty.
• Of course, this doesn't mean you have to stay in winter wolf form all of the time. Sometimes it will simply be more effective to switch to elemental form and focus on spellcasting; fire elem + Body of the Sun will still work great in a lot of heroic content, after all. And since you're using SWF, you can still melee in elem form, though your melee DPS won't be as good.
• Gearing this build is tricky, since apart from the usual survivability bonuses (+HPs, Resistance, etc.), you want both caster gear and melee DPS gear, which is tough to squeeze in. My view is you want to focus on caster gear first (i.e., Spellpower / Lore / Focus items), then squeeze in whatever melee DPS doodads you can (i.e., Deadly item, decent mainhand weapon).
• EDIT: based on Ginger's analysis here, I think Master of Wilds is only worth considering on pure caster druids who plan to sticking within the Primal Sphere; you can't even come close to the new MCL limits without the +5 CLs from Primal EDs.
• EDIT: I was trying to keep my Twists first-life-doable, but just remembered a first-life build without any EPLs or Tome of Fate has a max of 25 Fate pts, not 26. Oops!

[Panzermeyer]

My first pass through Legendary Content and a final build has me with Scion of Fire.

I am seeing pretty frequent Energy Bursts (Cold) of 10-15K in damage now. Which I am throughly enjoying.

And honestly in LH content I can push my earthquake DC's to about 63-64 and I am finding that quite adequate. Next Epic past life retweak I might try going Earth, which would push me just past 200 PRR.

Also for this time around I gave the Cone of Cold a shot for one of the Legendary Feats. I am surprised at how well it is working. It's damage is a bit disappointing, however freezing the enemies following up by an energy burst is proving quite devastating.

The simple answer is because of the PRR since this is a tanky build. I also really like the +2 to DCs of all spells.

This is a good opportunity to discuss the decision further and the other Scion feats as they relate to druid casters. I pasted the wiki entry on some of the Scion feats for reference below.

On a caster druid, I think Earth, Air, Fire and Water are the obvious choices. Generally speaking, I don't feel the +10 spell power to one element vs. any other is that big of a selling point, especially considering that all of them get +30 universal spell power. The weapon damage is also generally irrelevant to a caster. So we're left with the first 2 bullet points in each feat as the crux of our decision.

A traditional cold druid caster will probably want to go with Scion of Air because of the big +4 to evocation and the dodge bonus is nice too. A fire+light caster druid like the Helios build or Slarden's Herald of Light build, may go with Scion of Fire because the dps from crit chances and the PRR/MRR bonus is nice too, but Air is also a solid option, especially for those that want to do legendary elites since a viable Earthquake DC is significantly higher now with u29 legendary elite content. Overall I think Water Scion is pretty weak compared to the others, but could be a nice option for a more casual player that isn't interested in doing epic elites and legendary elites.

Hope that helps!

	Scion of the Plane of Earth		+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells +20 PRR +10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)	Level 30
	Scion of the Plane of Air		+4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap +10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)	Level 30
	Scion of the Plane of Fire		+25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells +10 PRR, +10 MRR +10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)	Level 30
	Scion of the Plane of Water		+200 Maximum Spell Points +20 MRR +10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)	Level 30

[Panzermeyer]

I should also add that Ginger does really well in Legendary Elites with a party, but struggles with them solo. We only have 2 legendary elite quests atm, but just want to make sure that you don't have false expectations. I was able to solo LE Creeping Death on Ginger, but it took me an hour and all my sp clickies to do so. I could not solo LE To Curse the Sky in my regular destiny because the abishai are highly immune or resistant to a druid's primary damage types. I was able to switch to Exalted Angel and solo it but it took a long time because I had to perpetually wait for Sun Bolt and Divine Wrath to come off timer. I am very much hoping for an abishai-free 2016 :P

I have not tried LE soloing anything yet at this point. Particularly the flagging quests. The resistances of the creatures in there I have no interest in spending that much time in the quest just to do it.

However running in a party my build works out great in the party. Great survivability, CC, healing and added DPS works great.

I have tanked Izzy in some hound runs to date just fine.

My current version of the build is sitting at 1400hp, 155 AC, 190 PRR. Cold mainly though I should play around with Fire though as it has kept up easily enough. Just shy of 500 spell power for both Cold and Fire with 44% chance crit with Cold and 39% crit chance with Fire. I lucked out and found a +18 Intim helm with +9 insightful Intim and can get my Intim up to 97 when needed. Just yesterday I was running a LH shroud and hit it at the wrong time and ended up pulling the aggro of three of the bosses after people had been beating the **** out of them for a long time, and ended up having to let myself get killed to get rid of he aggro =)

I love the build and am on last life with this build. I am in it from here on out. Only thing I will be doing is casually doing more Epic PL just to keep things interesting.

[Vooduspyce]

I have not tried LE soloing anything yet at this point. Particularly the flagging quests. The resistances of the creatures in there I have no interest in spending that much time in the quest just to do it.

However running in a party my build works out great in the party. Great survivability, CC, healing and added DPS works great.

This was the intent of the build, it's nice to hear that other people enjoy playing as part of a team

I have tanked Izzy in some hound runs to date just fine.

We just started experimenting with LE HOX in my guild. I can stay with LE Xyzzy no prob, but sadly I can't intim her on LE, even on a roll of 20! And my new standing intim is 112! So that was discouraging. Ginger can no-fail intim Xyzzy on LH.

My current version of the build is sitting at 1400hp, 155 AC, 190 PRR. Cold mainly though I should play around with Fire though as it has kept up easily enough. Just shy of 500 spell power for both Cold and Fire with 44% chance crit with Cold and 39% crit chance with Fire. I lucked out and found a +18 Intim helm with +9 insightful Intim and can get my Intim up to 97 when needed. Just yesterday I was running a LH shroud and hit it at the wrong time and ended up pulling the aggro of three of the bosses after people had been beating the **** out of them for a long time, and ended up having to let myself get killed to get rid of he aggro =)

Displomacy bro, diplomacy. Or just stand there and shield block. I know this build can take it

I love the build and am on last life with this build. I am in it from here on out. Only thing I will be doing is casually doing more Epic PL just to keep things interesting.

I'm glad to hear you're still liking it and I appreciate the feedback!

[Vooduspyce]

Also for this time around I gave the Cone of Cold a shot for one of the Legendary Feats. I am surprised at how well it is working. It's damage is a bit disappointing, however freezing the enemies following up by an energy burst is proving quite devastating.

I experimented with this a little. I too was disappointed in the dps. The freezing was cool but I didn't feel like I needed the added cc, lol. I also didn't feel like it fit my playstyle with Ginger because I usually stand in the middle of everything and AOEs, but the cone shoots outward, so if I want to hit the whole group I'd have to jump out, cast glacial wrath, then jump back in, so a little awkward. If the dps was higher it might've been more tempting for me to try to work it in.

[unbongwah]

The freezing was cool but I didn't feel like I needed the added cc, lol. I also didn't feel like it fit my playstyle with Ginger because I usually stand in the middle of everything and AOEs, but the cone shoots outward, so if I want to hit the whole group I'd have to jump out, cast glacial wrath, then jump back in, so a little awkward. If the dps was higher it might've been more tempting for me to try to work it in.

Doesn't it cause helplessness? Freeze effects usually do. If so, the extra dmg seems like it's worth the extra effort / SPs to use.

[Morroiel]

From my tests when it was on lamannia, the freezing did provide helpless state and therefore helpless damage.

I however disagree with you on its usefulness - the opportunity cost of a feat and the quite frankly ridiculous spell point cost of the spell makes it an extremely subpar choice except in very niche builds.

Fortunately, there are much better feats to pick!

[Vooduspyce]

Doesn't it cause helplessness? Freeze effects usually do. If so, the extra dmg seems like it's worth the extra effort / SPs to use.

Overall I just didn't care for it with my playstyle. Seems like something better for a more traditional caster as opposed to the tanky way that I like to play Gingerspyce.

[unbongwah]

How long does the freeze effect last? I know the spell CD is 10 secs, but that's not necessarily the spell duration. Wondering how big of a window of opportunity it creates...

[Vooduspyce]

How long does the freeze effect last? I know the spell CD is 10 secs, but that's not necessarily the spell duration. Wondering how big of a window of opportunity it creates...

I think it's the same as the freezing ice effect from Frozen Tunic, so 9 sec?

[Panzermeyer]

Displomacy bro, diplomacy. Or just stand there and shield block. I know this build can take it

Didn't have Diplo hot barred, and it wasn't a matter of survival that was not an issue.

It was a matter of not being able to split the bosses to kill them.

No one else seemed to be able to pull them off me. =)

[Panzermeyer]

How long does the freeze effect last? I know the spell CD is 10 secs, but that's not necessarily the spell duration. Wondering how big of a window of opportunity it creates...

Yes it does provide helplessness, which is why I make sure to wait to cast it till energy burst is off timer. Then do a one two, and usely clears mobs quite nicely.

Not sure the time exactly, not super long so the 9 sec might be right.

I will likely play with other feats as well during Epic PL, before I settle on a final feat. But though the initial DPS was a disappointment initially, the extra CC, helplessness with Energy burst, it is a possible option in the end.

[Vooduspyce]

Didn't have Diplo hot barred, and it wasn't a matter of survival that was not an issue.

It was a matter of not being able to split the bosses to kill them.

No one else seemed to be able to pull them off me. =)

Oh, I was thinking that you meant part 5. I hear ya, that can be annoying lol.

[LordFancyPants]

What are your LGS plans for Gingerspyce?


LFP

[Vooduspyce]

What are your LGS plans for Gingerspyce?


LFP

Right now I'm mostly in "wait and see" mode. I did replace my old GS bracers with LGS t1 hit points and t2 spells points and charisma skills, which got me up to 112 intimidate, woot! Still not enough for EE Xyzzy though

It's possible I may do a wisdom stick or multiple opposition items to get the +%HP set bonus. I am very curious to see what I'll be able to craft with the new cannith crafting system coming out soonish^TM.

In the mean time I am very much open to suggestions!

[LordFancyPants]

I agree, I'm just hording mats until the crafting update. It is a lot of resources to commit to building up the accessory set bonus.

I'm intrigued by a triple water (wisdom) scimitar though. Is the stacking cold dot affected by spell power?

LFP

[Vooduspyce]

I agree, I'm just hording mats until the crafting update. It is a lot of resources to commit to building up the accessory set bonus.

I'm intrigued by a triple water (wisdom) scimitar though. Is the stacking cold dot affected by spell power?

LFP

afaik they used to but was changed with patch 1, so no longer scales with spell power.