FYI: Big Hint as to identity of next Sorc Prestige from Feather_of_Sun

[Failedlegend]

Just in case you missed it

Internal development on a new enhancement tree was completed last week. It's currently getting an Alpha pass from our Quality Assurance team, and an Alpha Preview pass by a select group of players on the Mournlands Preview Server.

It'll be available for public consumption on Lamannia (our Public Preview Server) some time before Update 20, and will go live with Update 20.

Hint: It's in the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5

Also here's my opinion

Oooo you devilish bastard ;P

Time for some process of elimination

So the prestige classes that are contained within the DMG are Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Archmage, Assassin, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, Shadowdancer, Red Wizard and Thaumaturgist

To start we remove the existing prestiges/epic destinies bringing it to Arcane Trickster, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, Red Wizard and Thaumaturgist.

Than I'd say we can easily remove any Prestiges which a clearly linked to specific classes and /or races so we lose Blackguard & Dwarven Defender.

There's a few divine or hybrid only prestige in there so Mystic Theurge (might be a cool idea for an ED), Hierophant & Thaumaturgists.

Next we remove the obviously melee prestige duelist

Now starts with opinions/guessing to start I doubt its going to be Horizon walker...first off its a very weak and boring presrtige class and frankly has nothing to do with spellcasters so thats gone. Next I'd say Arcane Trickster & Loremaster are Iconically Wizard Prestiges (my wizard would love me some Arcane Trickster) so again removed due to opinion.

Red Wizards is an iconic Wizard prestige as well but it's connection to the generic realms makes me think the devs might try to shoehorn it in (on WBs orders) so I can't remove it because of that but I'm prbably just being paranoid, also it is a Human only prestige so that probably disqualified it (although Amaunator is a god primarily worshipped by Humans and Aasimar and the devs saw fit to make the Iconic Morninglord an elf so who knows)

Now all that remains is Dragon Disciple, Eldritch Knight & Red Wizard my personal hope is of course Dragon disciple although I wouldn't really complain if it was Eldritch knight,...but I really do hope and frankly imo is most likely going to be Dragon Disciple.

So yeah my guess is Dragon Disciple (to be fair it always was, this just cemented that guess)...any chance we can get Kobolds why you guys are at it....Kobold Dragon Disciple -> Draconic Incarnation FTW...TRIPLE DRAGON!!! :P

Sidenote: Hey dev types making DD (if that is what happening) consider throwing in some abilities from the swift blade prestige class they'd fit nicely in the the Gish angle of DD.

[sephiroth1084]

My money is on Dragon Disciple with some bits from Eldritch Knight: bonuses to Str, Con and Cha, full BAB somehow, proficiency and reduced penalty for wearing armor, some improvement to weapon-based attacks (maybe unarmed/natural attacks), an Abundant Step-like ability to simulate wings, bonus to natural armor and PRR, and some breath weapon spell-like abilities, along with resistance based on dragon color selected and some bonuses against things like sleep and poison.

My assumption is that, other than for the battlesorc players, the tree will be used for picking up some survivability bonuses on casting-focused sorcerers more heavily invested in a Savant tree.

[Failedlegend]

I wouldn't mind a few abilities from Swiftblade to flesh the tree out a bit.

Mind you if Wizard ever gets Arcane Trickster than Swiftblade might fit better within that Tree as a supplemental. Mind you I'd be ok with Arcane Trickster as an ED instead (stick it in arcane sphere linking to Shadowdancer with Magister to the right and draconic incarnation to left...fatesinger can be the bottom of the diamond)

Actually forget that...devs give DD a sprinkling of Eldritch Knight abilities to flesh it out than give Wizards Wild Mage with a sprinkling of Arcane Trickster and Swiftblade as their 3rd prestige, that will give both casters a different way to play and some interesting unique abilities

[voodoogroves]

The only one that screams sorc is Dragon Disciple. It classically requires the ability to cast arcane spells w/o preparation right?

Sadly, this pegs them more down the elemental-only route.

I hope it's something different, like Thaumaturgist - and if so, Wizards should get access.



One of these days they need to implement the joint trees. EK, Arcane Trickster, etc.

[Failedlegend]

Sadly, this pegs them more down the elemental-only route.

If they include Gem dragons as an option Sorcs could finally have a force option as well as Light & Sonic. Although I'd like to see Force Savant made as well.

One of these days they need to implement the joint trees. EK, Arcane Trickster, etc.

Hybrid Prestige trees would be glorious I've tried to bring up the idea several time actually, especially during the "Let's Talk" Enhancement thread. Obviously its a bit out of date since a bunch of things got changed from the initial design but the idea would still work.

Thats why I think they should add in "Hybrid" PrEs to give a place to PrEs that don't fit with just one class..Eldritch Knight require levels in both an arcane and martial class...Sacred Fist requires Monk + Cleric...Arcane Trickster requires Wizard + Rogue Mech...????? requires Rogue Mech + Arty Master Maker (this just needs to be done)....Corrupt Avenger requires Palemaster+Divine Avenger....etc.

Here's a quick example using Swiftblade (and using the Tempest Template)

The Requirements:

Core 1: Arcane1/Martial1 Character Level 3
Core 2: Arcane2/Martial2 CL 6
Core 3: Arcane4/Martial4 CL 9
Core 4: Arcane5/Martial5 CL 12
Core 5: Arcane6/Martial6 CL 15
Core 6: Arcane7/Martial7 CL 18
Capstone: Arcane8/Martial8 CL 20

Note: This means a Arcane18/Martial2 would only have access to tier 2

The "Free Bonuses"

5 Points Spent: Gain Spring Attack
10 Points Spent: Swiftblade I, 10% Blur Effect, +1 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save
15 Points Spent: Haste Lasts 50% Longer
20 Points Spent: Swiftblade II, 20% Blur Effect, +2 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save, All Hits deal an extra 1d6 Untyped Damage
25 Points Spent: Haste Lasts 100% Longer & Cannot be Dispelled
30 Points Spent: Swiftblade III, 30% Blur Effect, +4 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save, All Hits deal an extra 2d6 Untyped Damage
41 Points Spent: Perpetual Celerity - When any Haste effect is on you it lasts until Rest/Death

The PrE Tree itself would likely have a bunch of movement related things like increased run speed, immunity to knockdown, freedom of movement, balance, jump, tumble,etc.

[Sokól]

I am going to use your word, this news is glorious

[Failedlegend]

I am going to use your word, this news is glorious

Agreed...now the only 2 questions remain

1. What does everyone think the DD Tree should look like feel free to think outside of the original prestige classes box

2. When is U20 coming.

[HatsuharuZ]

What should it look like? Well, whatever it is, it should give universal spellpower per point spent in the tree. Also, some spellpower enhancements similar to the ones in the Divine Disciple tree wouldn't go amiss. The point (for me) is to give a viable alternative to being a Savant, which focuses on one element exclusively, at the cost of being able to use another. Well, that and providing some more survivability. Survivability is not to be underestimated, especially with a sorcerer's poor saves.

[voodoogroves]

claw / claw / bite / wings


BTW "force" savant is "Argent Savant" in CA.

[HatsuharuZ]

It just occured to me... sorcs get bluff as a class skill. However, there is little point in this currently since sorcs do damage with spells and not sneak attacks. So what if... just what if... the devs are putting in Arcane Trickster instead of DD? They could combine AT with Eldritch Knight and potentially make a melee combatant that can do sneak attacks and thus make use of this. I know that it would be unpopular, but with Feather's purposefully vague comments, it's entirely possible.

After all, DD is all about gaining power from having a dragon in ones' lineage, and gaining benefits that match the color of that dragon. We already have something like that in the form of the elemental Savants and the Draconic Incarnation ED. So it's entirely possible that the developers have decided to go for something completely different and make a tree that doesn't rely on gameplay elements that already exist in the game.

I know, it's not what people have been asking for, but I'm just putting it out there. It's entirely feasible, though it would be unpopular at first.

[Failedlegend]

claw / claw / bite / wings


btw "force" savant is "argent savant" in ca.

ca?

[Sokól]

Agreed...now the only 2 questions remain

1. What does everyone think the DD Tree should look like feel free to think outside of the original prestige classes box

2. When is U20 coming.

Well I stopped playing pnp 20 years ago so I do not know what the DD looks like there but I am assuming that the Draconic ED was based on it.

I can see some draconic skin thing adding prr and maybe something else.

Some form of wings or levitation would be fun.

but my gut feeling tells me it is some combo of force savant and DD...

[voodoogroves]

ca?

Complete Arcane, D&D 3.5 expansion book. You may see people playing games with "everything", "core" (PHB, DMG, MM) ... or more often "core+completes". It's were lots of the other prestiges are from (Occult Slayer, Thief Acrobat, Ravager, Knight of the Chalice, etc.) - from those Complete (*) books.

Also sometimes called "splat" books, in reference to the asterisk as a wildcard.

[voodoogroves]

Well I stopped playing pnp 20 years ago so I do not know what the DD looks like there but I am assuming that the Draconic ED was based on it.

I can see some draconic skin thing adding prr and maybe something else.

Some form of wings or levitation would be fun.

but my gut feeling tells me it is some combo of force savant and DD...

Here's the Dragon Disciple: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeCl...onDisciple.htm

[Havok.cry]

If they give them claw attacks and do not give them access to the natural fighting feat without taking druid levels, then I will question their intelligence more than I already do.

To be honest though I really really hope that it is eldritch knight or something else other than dragon disciple. Red wizard would be cool, but that one should be the third wizard tree, not sorc.

[Failedlegend]

If they give them claw attacks and do not give them access to the natural fighting feat without taking druid levels, then I will question their intelligence more than I already do.

Don't tell them that the TWF line is much superior. :P

[HatsuharuZ]

Think about it... it's possible in PnP, and Turbine is (hopefully) aware that bards need another tree, as sorcs do. Furthermore, bards get spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that spellcraft applies to. Don't forget that Turbine has already decided to save time by having clerics and fvs share a tree. It's not impossible.

[whereispowderedsilve]

Think about it... it's possible in PnP, and Turbine is (hopefully) aware that bards need another tree, as sorcs do. Furthermore, bards get spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that spellcraft applies to. Don't forget that Turbine has already decided to save time by having clerics and fvs share a tree. It's not impossible.

Insert Picard meme cos I am busy studying(or lazy take your pick) MAKE IT SO! :P! ! !

[Deathdefy]

Well given Sorcs already have 4 prestiges, however similar they may be, I sincerely hope it's Thaumaturgist and Wizards get access too.

Forcing all of us who don't want to be Shiradis into taking Pale Master is lame and has turned 'Wizard' into 'Necromancer'.

[Failedlegend]

Well given Sorcs already have 4 prestiges, however similar they may be, I sincerely hope it's Thaumaturgist and Wizards get access too.

Forcing all of us who don't want to be Shiradis into taking Pale Master is lame and has turned 'Wizard' into 'Necromancer'.

Sorcs only have 1 PrE it just happens to have different versions for each element, its still only one PrE