Feat question for druid monk build

[Rush007]

Currently playing a pure hybrid druid right now and with the changes to animal form casting not requiring 20 druid levels, splashing 2 monk seems like a no brainer. Here is what I am thinking for feats with the 18/2 split :

9 normal feats - 2 monk 1 human extra
Stance feats x3 - adept, master, grand master
Maximize
Empower
Quicken
Spell focus evocation - for ED Twists
Stunning Fist - monk feat
Precision - monk feat
Dodge - for knockdown prevention and 3% more dodge in nature warrior

3 Epic Feats
Empower Healing
Heighten
Improved Critical

2 Epic destiny feats
spell power cold or tactician
elusive target or guardian angel

(These are not in leveling order)

Question is are the stance feats worth more than say natural fighting x3 or two weapon fighting x3. Should I gut the Spell power feats + heighten to get either one of these? Melee damage will be much higher with the 2 levels of monk having the wolf form actually scale with unarmed progression from epic wraps and centered bonuses from EDs.

Enhancements 32 Nature warrior, 31 Natures herald and 17 to fill out healing amp in human or a mix of first tier of amp and getting fist of iron from a monk tree.

Goal is to stay a pure hybrid, be able to melee, cast, heal and CC.

[Charononus]

Natural fighting is 100% required to have all 3 feats for a wolf build.

Honestly I think you're trying to fit too much in, you might be better off staying in ele form with this build and fighting punchie style.

[Panzermeyer]

Honestly I think you're trying to fit too much in, you might be better off staying in ele form with this build and fighting punchie style.

I echo this statement. You are trying to make an uber melee and caster. You will likely be meh in both. Decide too go caster or go melee.

If you go melee, natural fighting is a must for the double strike in wolf form. That is alot of what you are basing your damage on.

If you go caster take heighten and empower heal soon. And Take on some of the Mental Toughness feats.

And since when does Dodge offer knockdown immunity? I thought it only offered dodge and access to further feats that would increase the value of a mobile fighting style.

[AzB]

And since when does Dodge offer knockdown immunity? I thought it only offered dodge and access to further feats that would increase the value of a mobile fighting style.

It offers a path to "four legs good" which is an enhancement that prevents knockdown. However, it is temporary and if your build isn't planning on using dodge, I don't think it's worth taking dodge just for that enhancement.

When druids are in animal form, they are considered to be animals. They should have the same knockdown resistance that the wolves in the Vale of Twilight have. But take your druid out there in wolf form and even with juiced up strength and tactics, you will find it hard to knock down any four legged creature... unless it's a druid in animal form. And for that matter, druids in animal form should not be outrun by monks. The fastest man in the world ran 27 mph. A wolf can run 40 mph, and a bear can hit that speed as well in short bursts. It is dumb that druids aren't faster than monks, and can be knocked down constantly by regular wolves while only having a small chance of ever tripping them.

Just myonionheadedopinion

[Rush007]

Adding some random thoughts and responses.

Four good legs is a beast form stance that you can only have one active at the time. It is bugged tho and you can have multiple. You don't get a buff icon so I questioned if it was even working but it does prevent some knockdowns. Example - drow priestess have comet fall and it is a balance check to remain standing, never fall down. Dragon's also I do not fall over either. Driders have that web line snare, strength check and it doesn't stop that. It is a stance and is always up as long as you are in animal form. Dodge feat gets me to 25% cap if I find a +10% item. 6 (dodge + enhance) + 10 item + 4 monk + 5 water stance = 25%

I never liked the natural fighting feats because they are so form specific. My playstyle I use every form for different situations. Water elemental if I want to do range magic dot damage and CC. Fire elemental for body of sun and undead or weak to fire enemies. It isn't so shabby either vs fall of truth dragon. Wolf form dps vs that dragon tanks, what 25 blunt DR, fortification for even less sneak attacks? Wall of fire, body of sun and swing that pure blade of flame. Wolf, dps for anything sneakable, bear rarely used for tanking. So natural fighting is a waste of a feat if I go elemental form.

With the two monk splash I could see using sireth and fire elemental form. To hit is not an issue, accuracy item, flank. Fury of wild can give THF feats and it is a solid ED all around for a druid.

What I am gaining for damage with 2 monk is 5d10 weapon dmg (EE knuckles, tier 1 twist) vs 1d10+2+2d6 sneak from not taking nature warrior capstone. About 3 weapon dice which can be multiplied from crits.

I guess I made up my mind - stances for the versatility. I do less damage melee than deep splashed melees or feat specific melees but magic damage shouldn't be discounted. A stunned foe hit with a maxxed empowered word of balance is solid.

[SerPounce]

I'm skeptical of a elemental/wolf hybrid. Seems like you want to be a caster that can stun stuff. I'd just embrace that and forget about animal forms. Without more specialization the DPS just isn't worth it.

Drop dodge, precision, and IC for the 2wf feats for 80% doublestrike with stunning fist. Or for more spell focus + mental toughness.

I just don't think you're going to find wolf/bear to be worth it. If you're not willing to invest in the feats, why invest the AP to make it work. Move those points to SH/ or monk.

But I'm biased, as that's what I do http://calamitousguild.forumotion.co...nken-master-v2

[Oldraven]

And for that matter, druids in animal form should not be outrun by monks. The fastest man in the world ran 27 mph. A wolf can run 40 mph, and a bear can hit that speed as well in short bursts. It is dumb that druids aren't faster than monks, and can be knocked down constantly by regular wolves while only having a small chance of ever tripping them.

Just myonionheadedopinion

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective on speed vs. a Monk.

A level 20 monk moves at a base of 90 feet per round, which calculates out to 15 feet per second, at a walk. At a full run, with the Run Feat, it's 75 feet per second. That's 450 feet a round. That's 4,500 feet a minute. 270,000 feet an hour. That's 51.1363636363636... etc Miles per Hour. It's supernaturally fast. It can be even faster with gear, like the Boots of Striding and Springing, which add 10 feet to the base calculation, Feats like Dash, which add another 5, Psionic feats like Speed of Thought for another 10, etc. etc. Not to mention spells like Expeditious retreat...


Basically, you're complaining that a Druid transformed into a wolf isn't faster than someone who has a landspeed capable of hustling on Interstates. The Monk ain't fully mortal after a certain point, and a lot of their powers are blatantly supernatural, one of the most visible being the fact that their jogging speed makes Usain Bolt look like a slowpoke.

[AzB]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective on speed vs. a Monk.

A level 20 monk moves at a base of 90 feet per round, which calculates out to 15 feet per second, at a walk. At a full run, with the Run Feat, it's 75 feet per second. That's 450 feet a round. That's 4,500 feet a minute. 270,000 feet an hour. That's 51.1363636363636... etc Miles per Hour. It's supernaturally fast. It can be even faster with gear, like the Boots of Striding and Springing, which add 10 feet to the base calculation, Feats like Dash, which add another 5, Psionic feats like Speed of Thought for another 10, etc. etc. Not to mention spells like Expeditious retreat...


Basically, you're complaining that a Druid transformed into a wolf isn't faster than someone who has a landspeed capable of hustling on Interstates. The Monk ain't fully mortal after a certain point, and a lot of their powers are blatantly supernatural, one of the most visible being the fact that their jogging speed makes Usain Bolt look like a slowpoke.

I see what you're saying, but I think your logic is a bit clouded by your monk love.

First off, in my point I'm clearly talking about base speed. Secondly, you mention gear. Everyone can get the same or very similar gear for moving quickly, including spells like expeditious retreat. So that's not really an issue in a side by side comparison. Lastly, your claim that a monk is supernatural so there's no comparison does not take into consideration that a man turning into a wolf is also supernatural. Now clearly once we get into supernatural issues, everything goes out the window because... well, it's "magic".

But the point is that the base speed of a natural human is typically about half the base speed of a wolf. Or even a bear, although the bear's speed and the human's speed are short sprints while the wolf can sustain fairly significant speeds for quite a while. Sure you can put magic boots on them and cast haste and other quickening spells on them, but they will both get the same degree of advantage from those boosts. The base speed is where the issue lies.