Kensei Warpriest for new players (Human 12/8 Fighter/Cleric)

[Choopak]

How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?

[Vellrad]

How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?

Probably good.

Human is an extra feat, so you would have to resign from one of feats.

[unbongwah]

How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?

The main drawback would be losing heal amp; obviously, it's a bigger drawback for WF than HO. This build relies on Ameliorating Strike and Cure spells for most of its self-heals, so heal amp is pretty important for getting the most bang outta every heal. You also lose the Passage DMs and Dmg Boost, though you gain other racial enhs in their place.

[Ungood]

I did a 12/8 Fighter/Cleric for my Fighter life, I admit, the class splits are amazing when it comes to surviving, but really, you're better off going 1 fighter, 9 cleric, then 11 fighter, to get the healing power in at the early levels, and then worry about the DPS at the later levels when it starts to really matter.

Also, I did my build before the Enhancement pass, when feats were still tied to PRE's, so when it came to feats, I took the feats to allow for both Kensei and SD, because a 12/8 Fighter/Cleric also made a great self healing tank.

I am not sure how that sets now with the new pass, so, I'll not comment on that.

Note: You should fit quicken in there as you will be casting while in combat, it's just a very handy feat to have.

[Choopak]

... Yeah it's a fun easy build for heroic leveling, that's for sure. I see no issue rolling up a half-orc version. As I posted later on in the thread, I also abandoned the stalwart defender tree entirely in favor of the tier 4 warpriest ability that adds aoe heals to smite foe...

You said you scrap the SD tree, but your OP, doesn't show that... could you elaborate please (rather have more self healing, cause it the purpose of the build)
Also, you mention many times that the 8th level of cleric is pretty much useless, any advice (from your experience) to replace it with? Was thinking rogue at low level... But open to suggestions (a la pro vs con)
1 level of rogue opens up UMD, 1d6 SA, but mostly: open lock! If i remember, 1 rank in OL was all you need to open pretty much all the doors/ chests! which are plentiful at lower level.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom, and build!

One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...

p.s: just TRed 3 days ago (3rd life), 4th level already, enjoying the build, very simple and like you said: pally like style...

[Jasparion]

One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...

A good point. You could chug Wisdom pots, or hope to get a ship invite with a +1/+2 shrine and look for a +1/+2 Wisdom item, but neither of these are brand new player friendly. For a new player I would say start with 10 Wisdom. Then you only need a +1 item early on, and can start saving for a +1 tome and move up to +2 items and beyond.

Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role, but Im thinking 10 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 2 Rogue. Extra skills and Evasion will go nicely. I wont be spending much time at 20, so I dont need 12 levels of Fighter (because I wouldnt be getting my final Fighter level probably until level 20).

I created a test case with an Iconic to level to 15 and am wondering about the best use of my AP. Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first? Rogue looks pretty good with Acrobat, and staves (which I am planning on going - possibly using my GS Falchion against mobs which have DR against Bludgeoning). Early on do I go for Divine Might but then ignore Warpriest until much later in the game?

2 levels of Rogue gets me some nice things, but am I maybe better off going for 4 or 5? That tier in Acrobat is still giving some very nice things, but means I need to cut back on my Cleric levels (its a Fighter life so I need the most levels here).

[unbongwah]

One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...

Look at it this way: base WIS 8 + 6 item = 14, which is enough to cast all your spells; OTOH, the only way to retroactively give yourself more skill pts is to LR with higher INT. So while using Owl's WIS wands or the like until you have a +WIS item is annoying, it's merely a temporary inconvenience.

[Choopak]

A good point. You could chug Wisdom pots, or hope to get a ship invite with a +1/+2 shrine and look for a +1/+2 Wisdom item, but neither of these are brand new player friendly. For a new player I would say start with 10 Wisdom. Then you only need a +1 item early on, and can start saving for a +1 tome and move up to +2 items and beyond.

Well i ain't exactly a new palyer, i'm a come back player So my toon have a full set of +2 tomes (only available at level 7), minor inconvinient for me (was saying for a new player)

Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role, but Im thinking 10 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 2 Rogue. Extra skills and Evasion will go nicely. I wont be spending much time at 20, so I dont need 12 levels of Fighter (because I wouldnt be getting my final Fighter level probably until level 20).

I'm not to familiar with new enchancements, but as i remember, kensasi 12 (figter 12) was worth getting,... it's the 8th level of cleric i'm wondering what to replace with (might keep it)

I created a test case with an Iconic to level to 15 and am wondering about the best use of my AP. Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first? Rogue looks pretty good with Acrobat, and staves (which I am planning on going - possibly using my GS Falchion against mobs which have DR against Bludgeoning). Early on do I go for Divine Might but then ignore Warpriest until much later in the game?

2 levels of Rogue gets me some nice things, but am I maybe better off going for 4 or 5? That tier in Acrobat is still giving some very nice things, but means I need to cut back on my Cleric levels (its a Fighter life so I need the most levels here).

Ya 2 levels rogue or monk are nice for evasion and other goodies... i don't wanna strech thin, just making the most of the build: so 1 level only... but wich class?

BTW i took the VIP package so i have acces to all races/ classes...

[EllisDee37]

Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role
[...]
Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first?

Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

[Choopak]

Look at it this way: base WIS 8 + 6 item = 14, which is enough to cast all your spells; OTOH, the only way to retroactively give yourself more skill pts is to LR with higher INT. So while using Owl's WIS wands or the like until you have a +WIS item is annoying, it's merely a temporary inconvenience.

Wich bring the quetion again: are skills that immportant? beside concentration, heal...

[Choopak]

Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

Do you need 8 level of cleric to get tier 4 warpriest enchancements?

[EllisDee37]

Do you need 8 level of cleric to get tier 4 warpriest enchancements?

Nope, just level 4.

[Jasparion]

Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

I was planning on 16 Str, 14 Dex (I have all +4 tomes too). Ive got a level 88 ship, plenty of + Dex items to choose from, and Planar Girds, so my saves should be pretty good. I also have a guy playing pure Rogue in my group so he will take care of traps and the tricky bits on Elite runs. The Evasion really is just the nice little extra for me. I figure with reasonable saves it will help me sometimes in Elite runs, and often in Hard and Normal repeat runs.

I also really like the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Acrobat enhancements for Staves. 15% swing increase, and 25% doublestrike (which is up 90% of the time).

I will keep an eye on our group healing requirements to see how things are going. If I need to get to Tier 4 of Warpriest quickly I will respend my AP.

Thanks.

[Choopak]

Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

Thanks for input, i'm getting better at understanding those **** new enchancements... Now i know i want my toon to be 12 figther, 7-8 cleric (still debating for swapping last level cleric), THF, human (for the reasons you gave earlier) and with the same starting stats as yours...
Enhancements wise still the tricky part, quick question: the figther SD tree don't seems to bring to much (little more AC, some saves, etc...) was wandering if the cleric radiant servant tree wouldn't works better? (for even more healing and "unkillability") Or even more warpriest or kensai?

[EllisDee37]

the figther SD tree don't seems to bring to much (little more AC, some saves, etc...) was wandering if the cleric radiant servant tree wouldn't works better? (for even more healing and "unkillability") Or even more warpriest or kensai?

Well, the SD tree gives +3 saves and +25 PRR which is nice, but, well, I kind of came to the same conclusion as you.

So I ditched the SD tree altogether and put those points...actually looking back at the OP I'm not entirely sure where those 13 points went. I'll have to check in game and post the differences.

[Choopak]

Well, the SD tree gives +3 saves and +25 PRR which is nice, but, well, I kind of came to the same conclusion as you.

So I ditched the SD tree altogether and put those points...actually looking back at the OP I'm not entirely sure where those 13 points went. I'll have to check in game and post the differences.

Thanks again, really appreciate you take the time to help a noobish like me, lol!
From radiant servant:
Core: healing domain, pacifism (it's a toggle, so no worries for pen), and positive energy burst (healing sucks, but cure a lot of conditions)
Tier 1: wand mastery (II or III), altruism (again II or III depending of wand mastery)
Tier 2: divine healing (II), efficient empower healing (III)
Tier 3: unyielding sovereignty (OMG!!!) and +1 CHA
These are the one that seems the best, but you might know better (from gaming experience)

[Panzermeyer]

\
Tier 3: unyielding sovereignty (OMG!!!)

This is currently bugged, don't take it. It only appears that the death penalty goes away, but it in fact makes the death penalty permanent.

[EllisDee37]

This is currently bugged, don't take it. It only appears that the death penalty goes away, but it in fact makes the death penalty permanent.

The enhancement works correctly, it's the free feat at level 6 (for clerics and pallies) that is bugged in the way you describe.

[Choopak]

The enhancement works correctly, it's the free feat at level 6 (for clerics and pallies) that is bugged in the way you describe.

KK i only want the "get out of troubles/ heal me up/ cure all" easy button
So your taughs?
And you know what you took instead of SD enhancement?

[EllisDee37]

And you know what you took instead of SD enhancement?

1 sec, my leveling plan changed after a Mabar tome made my str odd. Here's what I currently have on live:

Human (24 AP) - 12 more AP compared to OP
Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Core: Human Versatility: Skills Boost
Core: Greater Adaptability: Constitution
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Tier 2: Fighting Style: Great Weapon Aptitude III
Tier 3: Heroism
Tier 3: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Greater Heroism

Kensei (32 AP) - unchanged
Core: Kensei Focus
Core: Spiritual Bond
Core: Strike With No Thought
Core: Power Surge
Tier 1: Extra Action Boost III
Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Tier 1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Tactics III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 3: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Strength
Tier 5: Keen Edge

Warpriest (24 AP) - 1 more AP compared to OP
Core: Smite Foe
Tier 1: Divine Might III
Tier 1: Toughness III
Tier 2: Smite Weakness
Tier 2: Wall of Steel III
Tier 2: Inflame III
Tier 3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 4: Ameliorating Strike
Tier 4: Strength


Looks like I dropped the second warpriest core since my Knight's Loyalty commendation set gives DR 5/-, and added tier 4 strength to offset the lost strength from SD. For human I added enough AP to get max amp and GH, and then when all was said and done I was left with 3 extra AP so I tossed those into human fighting style.

The odd strength from the Mabar tome meant that I could move a destiny str over to con, and then I added a second con with greater adaptability.

Here is the actual leveling plan I used this life, which is my second life in this build, the first since the enhancement pass. I was level 18 when Mabar went live, so the above "final" list of enhancements deviates a little bit, like adding greater adapatability. As you can see, I was pretty fed up not having a planar gird so I rushed the human tree to GH by level 10.

Order   Enhancement                Tier    Tree
1.1     Human Versatility: Damage    0     Human
1.2     Dragonmark Focus I           1     Human
1.3     Kensei Focus                 0     Kensei
1.4     Haste Boost I                1     Kensei

2.1     Weapon Group Specialization  1     Kensei
2.2     Haste Boost II               1     Kensei
2.3     Haste Boost III              1     Kensei

3.1     Smite Foe                    0     Warpriest
3.2     Divine Might I               1     Warpriest
3.3     Divine Might II              1     Warpriest
3.4     Divine Might III             1     Warpriest

4.1     Weapon Group Specialization  2     Kensei
4.2     Spiritual Bond               0     Kensei
4.3     Toughness I                  1     Warpriest

5.1     Improved Recovery            1     Human
5.2     Dragonmark Focus II          1     Human
5.3     Dragonmark Focus III         1     Human

6.1     Tactics I                    2     Kensei
6.2     Weapon Group Specialization  3     Kensei

7.1     Human Adaptability: Str      0     Human
7.2     Toughness II                 1     Warpriest
7.3     Toughness III                1     Warpriest

8.1     Strength                     3     Kensei
8.2     Lesser Dragonmark            2     Human

9.1     Human Versatility: Skills    0     Human
9.2     Improved Recovery            3     Human
9.3     Strike with No Thought       0     Kensei

10.1    Heroism                      3     Human
10.2    Greater Heroism              4     Human

11.1    Tactics II                   2     Kensei
11.2    Tactics III                  2     Kensei

12.1    Strength                     4     Kensei
12.2    Extra Action Boost I         1     Kensei

13.1    Extra Action Boost II        1     Kensei
13.2    Extra Action Boost III       1     Kensei

14.1    Weapon Group Specialization  4     Kensei
14.2    Keen Edge                    5     Kensei
14.3    Inflame I                    2     Warpriest

15.1    Improved Recovery            4     Human
15.2    Resilience of Battle         0     Warpriest
15.3    Inflame II                   2     Warpriest

16.1    Strength                     3     Warpriest
16.2    Inflame III                  2     Warpriest
16.3    Wall of Steel I              2     Warpriest

17.1    Smite Weakness               2     Warpriest
17.2    Wall of Steel II             2     Warpriest
17.3    Wall of Steel III            2     Warpriest

18.1    Inflame: Absorption I        3     Warpriest
18.2    Inflame: Absorption II       3     Warpriest
18.3    Ameliorating Strike          4     Warpriest

19.1    Power Surge                  0     Kensei
19.2    Fighting Style I             2     Human
19.3    Fighting Style II            2     Human
19.4    Fighting Style III           2     Human

20.1    Inflame: Absorption III      3     Warpriest
20.2    Inflame: Saving Throws I     2     Warpriest
20.3    Strength                     4     Warpriest