The Evil alignment.

[TheDigerati]

Firstly, let us make this fact clear:
Think of a poll as taking a spoon of soup from a pot and tasting it.. Now, think of a forum as a strainer spoon with very big holes. If you're posting on this forum, you are a carrot or an onion and will taste like a carrot or onion and your flavor will NOT be indicative of what the soup actually tastes like.. If you've followed this metaphor, you understand that a poll cannot be conducted on this forum, EVER. I am not posting to garner or gauge support. Please do not post a +1 or -1. I believe the intent of this forum is to discuss PvP concepts and ideas, not to bicker about whether or not PvP is desirable. If you're here to shoot holes in PvP ideas simply to do it or just to tell people you do not want PvP, you're here for the wrong reasons. Turbine can never get a valid sample of their audience from the forums and I think they're smart enough to realize this and are not swayed by the handful of people who troll this forum just to "-1" PvP.

Now, we can talk. I desire true end-game. Epic destinies and higher-tier content is good but truly only push the end-game further away and do nothing for the actual end-game. If "running raids until you can do it blindfolded to collect ingredients and/or get loot so that you can gear up so that you have an easier time running raids that you know well enough to do blindfolded" is valid end-game in your opinion, that's great, this is the perfect game for you, and I don't want to take that away from you.

As an old-timer, I've played a lot of PnP and I've DMed quite a lot. Once my parties get beyond the 4th circle, they're expected to take considerations for mind-control effects.. If they fail to take these considerations, they are subject to being dominated or confused. Confused players' actions are determined by dice rolls while dominated players are forced to perform at their maxim to end their party. This is PvP. I've also had quite a few occasions where the Lawful Good cleric and the Chaotic Evil assassin become at odds.. this is PvP. The evil alignment is not the only way for PvP to happen.. Imagine a Lawful Good paladin and a chaotic good barbarian: their differences will be vast and they will come into conflict that has a possibility of violence. PvP! To say Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did not have PvP is to say that alignments do not matter... Which is the apparent case with DDO.

DDO's alignment system is just the invisible wall preventing barbarians multiclassing into monks. It's absolutely meaningless without PvP.

So, how can we add value to alignments and thus facilitate true role-playing? I'm not sure but I know that allowing players to play the Evil alignment would be essential... We really could leave the 1-20 experience the very same... Adding a City of Villains-esque zone for those who want to participate in PvP... Give them an inefficient way to roam the zone, fighting and killing other players to progress thru their epic destinies? With some control points that Good/Evil can fight over... It could be a plane where the laws of physics are slightly different, which could explain why players have an exorbitant HP pool and why some spells do different damage.. Things could be tweaked exclusively on this zone to help balance PvP..

If you disregarded the first paragraph and want to argue that the developers should not spend any time on PvP I can tell you that I've given Turbine multiple thousands of dollars over the years and would give them thousands more if they created a PvP environment for a game with one of the best engines for PvP on the market. It's not about alienating their current audience nor attracting new players.. It's about fleshing out their game and making it truly full-featured.

[Memnir]

The only thing I like about this suggestion is giving PvP it's own area to exist, and get it out of the public zones. I don't PvP, and I'd also pay good money to never have to listen to the PvP chatter in the Harbor. Giving the PvP'ers their own space to do as they like, and engage in all the braggadocio blather they wish... I'm just tired of being an unwilling witness to it.


As for Evil in DDO... wouldn't really work, simple as that. There is zero reasons for an Evil character to be compelled to run the majority of quests in the game and retrofitting all the dialog to make it make sense for Evil alts to exist would be a massive overhaul that would likely not be worth it. Likewise, a CoV-like expansion would probably cost more then it would recoup. Not to mention the fact that the Devs have said repeatedly they don't want Evil in DDO because they want us to be the hero of the stories they are crafting.


Being Evil is not a stumbling block or impediment to either PvP or role-play. Role-play being evil. You don't need it on the character sheet to act evil...

Evil would have needed to be in the game from the get-go, and would be problematic (at best) to try and wedge it in now. But yes, by all means give PvP it's own area. Please.

[TheDigerati]

I did suggest that the 1-20 experience would remain the same... My idea was that there could be a turning point for epic characters.. They could go evil and experience an alternative epic setting..

Regardless, who says evil characters can't be heroes? I think a true neutral character would be the hardest to explain.. What could motivate a true neutral to go out of their way to become heroes?

[Charononus]

Ignoring the fact that I hate pvp I'll just address the alignment issue.

Evil alignments would need most likely a faction system and entirely different quest lists for 1-28. Otherwise it would be poorly done, and if it can't be done well it shouldn't be done. This can't be done well, in ddo at this point in it's life.

[Memnir]

Regardless, who says evil characters can't be heroes?

In this case - that'd be the Devs.
It's been an occasionally requested addition that has been steadfastly told No or just ignored (which is another word for No in Dev-Speak).


I think that our characters suddenly deciding to go evil in Epics makes not one iota of sense, but that's just me. If the Devs can find a way to add it in a way that makes sense I'd not mind... I'd just caution against getting hopes up.

[TheDigerati]

In this case - that'd be the Devs.
It's been an occasionally requested addition that has been steadfastly told No or just ignored (which is another word for No in Dev-Speak).


I think that our characters suddenly deciding to go evil in Epics makes not one iota of sense, but that's just me. If the Devs can find a way to add it in a way that makes sense I'd not mind... I'd just caution against getting hopes up.

Here ya go... An epic raid at the end of the IQ series that pits you against your own egos.. Players decide through action whether they become good or evil in the dream plane where PvP would flourish in the CoV-esque scenario.. complete with control/conflict points and epic-tier encounters and rewards (that would be easier to obtain through normal content). You could always repeat the initial raid to change your alignment.. PvP would not be required for the raid itself.. Since it's the dream plane, it could easily exist without having any real impact on the "real" game, but still create a challenging environment for those who desire a real end-game.

[96th_Malice]

Sounds WoWish ..... Or Star Wars Galaxies ish

However .... Factions might be something to consider

[Dawnsfire]

I have not heard from him in a while but I thought Eladrin put this to bed a long time ago:

"The first six alignments, lawful good through chaotic neutral, are the standard alignments for player characters. The three evil alignments are for monsters and villains." - PHB, p104.

While not every character strives to be a hero, the majority of the quests and storylines in DDO make the assumption that the parties involved are not actively villainous in nature. (There are some exceptions, such as Purging the Heretics, but even Running With the Devils involves an unfortunate situation forced upon the party through duplicity.)

Until I hear different, I will assume that is still the way Turbine feels about it.

[lyrecono]

no
no no
and no

you have no idea what kind of problems you're invoking here.
Ever played in an evil table top party?
Ever played a open pvp realm game?
have you payed attention to the turbine track record of screwing things up?

waste of time and effort

pvp can not and will not work in any d&d setting class balance is non existent.
the problem lays at the roots of the class/role's in any mmo.

pvp should stay as it is, a tacked on feature, hidden away in bars.

[GolemTheDarkBeing]

Here ya go... An epic raid at the end of the IQ series that pits you against your own egos.. Players decide through action whether they become good or evil in the dream plane where PvP would flourish in the CoV-esque scenario.. complete with control/conflict points and epic-tier encounters and rewards (that would be easier to obtain through normal content). You could always repeat the initial raid to change your alignment.. PvP would not be required for the raid itself.. Since it's the dream plane, it could easily exist without having any real impact on the "real" game, but still create a challenging environment for those who desire a real end-game.

This idea wouldn't work because everyone in the game would be evil. I haven't met one paladin that was lawful good irl alignment is fake in this game role play your alignment on your own having it say "evil" on your char screen doesn't mean a **** thing

on a side note evil can indeed be a hero a lot more than a neutral one can at least they have incentive ....the end reward