Natural Evolution, a simplified wolf dps build

[Cetus]

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One question I do have is if anyone's tested the new single weapon fighting feats with druid form on test server? They work with THF,

huh?

[Eth]

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One question I do have is if anyone's tested the new single weapon fighting feats with druid form on test server?

They do. If it makes it to live servers that would be hilariously broken in their current form.

[Nayus]

If so, would mind keeping this build here for reference and maybe linking it in your new thread?

[Blackheartox]

So I had this really elegant SWF TWF build designed in my head a few weeks ago for FoTW with balanced attack knockdowns and adrenaline recharges on 19-20 super fast due to attack speed. It was going to be ... entertaining. I had some notes above on my thinking. I had to take it out of my head just to see if it would have even been possible. Here goes:

Druid Overlord

4 ranger 2 barb 2 Druid 3 Barb 9 Druid

1 SWF
2 TWF Autogrant
3 PA
6 ISWF Need BaB 6 Balance 4 trained ranks
9 ITWF Need Dex 17 Bab 6 (+2 tomes kicked in @ 7)
12 GTWF Need BaB 11 Dex 17
15 GSWF Need BaB 11 Balance 7
18 IC:B Need BaB 8
21 NF
24 NF#2
26 PSWF (TWF locks this out on live, can’t get on my bf tactical fighter build, unlisted prerequisite of GSWF?)
27 Haste
28 PTWF

Enhancements
4 FB extra rages
34 Rav Crit Rage
13 NW Fatal harrier
23 DWS Killer
6 Tempest Offhand

Balanced Attacks/Consecrate/Sacred Ground twisted in Fury

But apparently taking SWF and TWF at the same time is a bug, that the ranger first TWF autogrant feat creates. Apparently the feat list of what you can take is supposed to be limited by what you have already selected or have, and lock out options you don't have. So if you take SWF, TWF and THF are supposed to dissappear from the feat list. But since ranger autogrants TWF, if you already have SWF they both show up on the feat list and only THF is locked out.

SWF is only partially effective for wolf form. The haste is a stance bonus, but strangely stacks with beast stance. The damage bonus improves the weapon profile, which is not used in animal form. Honestly the build is a themed build but not as good as any of the Big Bad Wolf builds, since it is lacking the shield stats (wall of wood HAMP stacked with bracers) as well as shield deflection 30% elemental damage reduction, and the burst healing and restoration of Ameliorating Strikes so it doesn't survive well, and also lacks AoE CC from cleaves and on-hit CC or quickened sleet storm. See posts 64-65 as to necessity of AoE on hit CC and insufficiency of just Consecrate-Sacred ground for healing. But it would have been pokey pokey funzors, up until you ran across EE damage or HE traps and got chewed up yourself due to a lack of every single defensive stat, AoE CC, and healing/restoration.

Perfect single weapon focus ep destiny feat does not work in wolf or bear form. Aka the 19-20 vorpal is not working

[Nodoze]

Oh, I forgot to update my experience with the tactical build. It worked decently. I didn't have a dun'robar stunning ring or antipodes, so I was limited to weak cormyrian stunning handwraps. The main problem is that without a dun'robar stunning ring or antipodes, you can't use high end weapons and have high enough stunning DC to make it worthwhile. I hit Dun'Robar Matron 40x without seeing a ring, and it was just a past life so only did CITW 4x or so.

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Meh, whole build isn't that good anyways. I guess back to making unkillable TF shuriken builds. Strangely, there's really no penalty for making an unkillable character. You would think the penalty would be dps, but it really isn't when you account for AoE damage mechanics for say twisting energy burst, or being able use Pin by tanking hits, or better IPS usage due to not needing to kite in circles. Having played with others using the shuricannon and meteor swarm builds, I can say that outside of huge areas to kite like Twin Peaks, unkillable dps > theoretical max dps build that needs to kite.

Have you posted any fully fleshed out builds?

[Nayus]

I've come to the conclusion after testing and playing a lot of other builds that I somehow got lucky by picking druid to learn how to deal melee dps.

And that I got lucky for using this thread (and you) as my DPS model, I only started playing Epics (and went straight to Epic Elites) a few months ago, I'm having an incredible progress so far and much of it is thanks to you, I read all your walls-of-text and stopped to analyze your build decisions and philosophy in-depth, it was really helpful and I can now trace my own straight path to min-maxing.
It saddened me when I read you were putting your Druid on-hold to try some P2W pre-made build but I wish the best of luck to you =D

[IshmaylFading]

I know I'm necromancing this thread, but I just have a question. I've been looking everywhere for a pure druid (Druid 20) melee build that is actually good. I don't need it to be able to solo EE, I don't play that style, and I don't even get uber gear, but I would like to be able to run w/ a group or raid and not just immediately get vaporized by the first abishai that pops up. Any advice on a pure druid melee wolf build?

Thanks

[AzB]

Time to go new-old school!

20 Elf Druid (For displacement dragonmark) (assumes +3 tomes)

Str 16
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 16
Chr 8

Feats:
1 TWF
3 Maximize
6 Empower
9 ITWF
12 IC:B
15 GTWF
18 Quicken
21 Least Dragonmark of Shadow
24 Shield Deflection
26 PTWF
27 Haste
28 Forced Escape

Skills: Concentration, Heal, Spellcraft, Spot

ED: Primal Avatar for tougher pet, summons, dryad, and balanced attacks helpless status on knockdown, and attack bonus.

Enhancements, some of both trees, with more in what you feel you like. Displacement dragonmark in epics. I don't see a use for harper tree here.

Fill out some of both trees, and level with TWF and spending spell points on maximized/empowered SLAs when their timers are ready.

In epic levels take the first dragonmark feat for displacement, followed by shield deflection to greatly reduce incoming damage. You generally won't need this reduction in heroic settings with the amount of healing you have available. You will also need quicken by epic levels since mobs hitting for 100s makes concentration checks impossible. If you find yourself taking too much damage and need Shield Deflection or Displacement earlier based on your available gear, feat swap them in for Maximize/Empower as needed, then take maximize/empower again in epics. Also, if this isn't enough displacement, swap Empower for Extend.

Since this build doesn't have AoE on hit CC or face melting dps you will need to do things like quickened sleet storm + FoM in EE, with improved deception for bosses. I was able to solo with a melee hire thorugh the High Roads EE like this a year ago, but Stormhorns mobs have too much hp. Splitting damage between yourself, a wolf, a dryad elder, and a hireling fighter all buffed by primal avatar and healing with mass regen while fighting in a sleet storm = good times.

Is there no advantage to Natural fighting for this kind of build?

And would level ups be in str or wis? Or split?

[unbongwah]

Is there no advantage to Natural fighting for this kind of build?

Sure, the problem is: what feats would you drop to add it? Pure wolf druids are pretty feat-starved; not enough room for everything, so you pick what you think provides the most bang-for-the-buck, depending on your intended playstyle.

[AzB]

Sure, the problem is: what feats would you drop to add it? Pure wolf druids are pretty feat-starved; not enough room for everything, so you pick what you think provides the most bang-for-the-buck, depending on your intended playstyle.

I can drop haste as I have epic gear that provides almost the same benefit.

[unbongwah]

I can drop haste as I have epic gear that provides almost the same benefit.

Honestly, I'd rather add another metamagic, like Extend or Emp Heal; or Power Atk / Precision, as I noticed Tilomere's build has neither. I also probably would've gone human for the extra feat and dropped DM feat.

[mezzorco]

Add everything into strength for to-hit primary, and damage secondary.

I'm pretty ignorant about druids, so my question is because I would like to understand

Shouldn't ability raises go on Wisdom instead?
It is used for Takedown DC, Howl of Terror DC, and spell DCs in general. While adding +2 STR means +1 damage, adding +2 WIS could mean full spell effect.
Doesn't most wolf damage come from its spells?

I'm asking because I know very little about it

[unbongwah]

Shouldn't ability raises go on Wisdom instead?
It is used for Takedown DC, Howl of Terror DC, and spell DCs in general. While adding +2 STR means +1 damage, adding +2 WIS could mean full spell effect.
Doesn't most wolf damage come from its spells?

It depends on how you play. Tilomere's build is STR-based to maximize his melee DPS; my pure wolf build went WIS-based to amp its DCs. In fact, my melee DPS is rather poor compared to max-DPS wolf builds; I'm using wolf form mostly for the temp SPs from Essence of the Shrike to help power my spells. Proc Shrike, drop an Earthquake; proc Shrike, drop an Ice Storm; proc Shrike, Cold Breath; etc. The way I see it, I'm not a "real" melee build, I'm a furry caster who bites people. In the long run, I'm planning to go Div Crusader or Exalted Angel, but I'm still ED-grinding (Arcane Sphere right now).

[AzB]

I know I'm necromancing this thread, but I just have a question. I've been looking everywhere for a pure druid (Druid 20) melee build that is actually good. I don't need it to be able to solo EE, I don't play that style, and I don't even get uber gear, but I would like to be able to run w/ a group or raid and not just immediately get vaporized by the first abishai that pops up. Any advice on a pure druid melee wolf build?

Thanks

I've tried a couple lives with a pure druid melee build. It's suboptimal. While the melee damage is ok if you use all the twf feats, it's still not that great. I used a Devourer's Reaping for a weapon as it had 2 slots, 14% doublestrike, vorpal, and hemorrhaging. I didn't bother making any thunder forged because I didn't think it was worth the investment just to play through the martial EDs. I ended up using spells a good bit to supplement dps, and came to the conclusion that caster is just far superior for pure.

Another major issue is defense. I can get pretty much the same AC, reflex, and hp in wolf or caster form but don't have to get into the fray as a caster. Dodge is better in melee form, but not by much. The lack of defenses makes for almost constant healing during melee, which seriously affects dps and really isn't that much fun.

Whereas with a caster, I can generally stand back and cast and rarely take any damage while providing a whole lot more damage.

[supott]

The big bad wolf build and elf solo big bad wolf build are about to become very strong as non-exploit druid builds. They were already buffed defensively due to the PRR/MRR changes, but now that barbarian is getting buffed, druid is being buffed due to being able to be powered by barbarian.

Hello. Pls excuse random question, but what do u mean by druids being powered by barbarian? Are they going to allow Barb and Druid to multi-class?


With regards to AzB and pure Druid,
I am doing 17 Druid 2 Monk 1 fighter now, and it has been the strongest DPS build i've done so far. (Haven't tried everything yet, though.)
I'm currently at lvl 24 with TWF feats. The 2 Monk for flurry of blows and the 1 fighter for haste boost for me is worth more than anything the 20 druid gives. That's about a 60% attack speed boost from flurry and haste boost? Damage boost and doublestrike boosts also for a total of 27 boosts with ship buffs. Have all points in Wis except enough to get Overwhelming Crit (Pre update). Nice option for someone who wants the flexibility in also being a caster.

The 17 Druid looking back though I think was not needed as I don't ever use 9th lvl spells. 16 Druid 2 Fighter 2 Monk might also work and still be a caster.

[Skavenaps]

Hello. Pls excuse random question, but what do u mean by druids being powered by barbarian? Are they going to allow Barb and Druid to multi-class?


With regards to AzB and pure Druid,
I am doing 17 Druid 2 Monk 1 fighter now, and it has been the strongest DPS build i've done so far. (Haven't tried everything yet, though.)
I'm currently at lvl 24 with TWF feats. The 2 Monk for flurry of blows and the 1 fighter for haste boost for me is worth more than anything the 20 druid gives. That's about a 60% attack speed boost from flurry and haste boost? Damage boost and doublestrike boosts also for a total of 27 boosts with ship buffs. Have all points in Wis except enough to get Overwhelming Crit (Pre update). Nice option for someone who wants the flexibility in also being a caster.

The 17 Druid looking back though I think was not needed as I don't ever use 9th lvl spells. 16 Druid 2 Fighter 2 Monk might also work and still be a caster.

try with a chaotic neutral or true neutral druid... you will be surprised.

[adrian69]

The big bad wolf build and elf solo big bad wolf build are about to become very strong as non-exploit druid builds. They were already buffed defensively due to the PRR/MRR changes, but now that barbarian is getting buffed, druid is being buffed due to being able to be powered by barbarian.

Mr. Tilomere, you seem to have the most knowledgable post on melee druids around here. I am looking for a melee build that can play in epics, but I am also wanting to do something different, like 5-6 lvls of barb and maybe 4 ftr different. I'm trying to find the big bad wolf build with barbarian levels in it and may have missed it. Can you point me to it? Otherwise, I like melees who can still cast, and I'll take suggestions.

[mezzorco]

Alpha Strike and Supreme Cleave and all other enhancement based attacks, as well as most? ED attacks are equipped main hand weapon/offhand weapon or shield attacks under your current fighting style(s). So they will attack with the Jeweled Hammer or whatever is actually equipped in your main hand, and shield bash(some attacks, not all?) with off hand, while two weapon fighting style as a wolf( So 2 main hand attacks, which may be 2 main hand 2 handed attacks, or 2 main hand swf attacks). It's confusing, but TWF, SWF, THF, and Shield Bashing all sorta 'bleed' into animal form.

Maybe an illustration is clearer,. This is one of the reasons SWF + TWF + Orb exploit druids kill so fast, although I don't think many have caught on as to why yet, and think it is only the attack speed bleeding over.

I can't understand what you're trying to show...I can see three hits, are those from main hand + off hand proc + shield bash?