I need a "Save" function

[Charononus]

Most of the content has already been shaped for that, many raids require a quick drop from the airship (or teleporter/wayfinder if you don't have a ship) to get right in the middle of the action.
some exceptions do exist and the effectiveness of you and your party can have a large impact on the speed, but then again, these are just raids.
every time the game is made easier the res of us suffer.
The last loot gen change (creating ghost bane for newbies that leave the game?) made our other loot pre/suffixes disappear. I'm not so sure about their excuse, stating it was unintentional, i recall people reporting this on Lamania back then.
We complained about the terrible loot up there, after days of posting we get the message that the intern(s) working on said loot hadn't been given access to the item part of the Lamania forums, ok, a slight oversight to say the least, but then the loot wasn't properly fixed anyway.
The exp stone meant that a lot of casual players that hang around in the harbor/market place, that never had a toon over lv 8 suddenly began running lv 16+ stuff. They were under geared and unprepared for what lied ahead. not always a fun experience for them and the rest of their party members.
It's bad enough that they exact changes without telling us,
It's bad enough that they exact changes without us asking for them,
It's bad enough that they exact changes without cleaning up the mess they create and if they do, it's more downtime...
I don't trust those butterfingers with the loot tables, let alone implementing a system with potential for a heavy impact on game play.
Should we honestly be spending resources on this system.
Yes i said the game is on life support, adding incentive for 10 min players won't directly make things work, the fact that turbine actually bothered to spend ,money on it to create it might damage the goodwill of the rest of the player base, let alone all the bugs it will bring (just imagine this update would permanently delete all the pinions in the game....)
I wasn't trying to make you feel guilty (trust me, you would have noticed the difference), i was trying to make you understand how incredibly alien the request looks when you zoom out of this picture. You're asking for something that would be far easier to remedy, but you don't seem to understand that A, a MMO isn't a casual game B, all those situations you mentioned aren't suitable for an MMO.

Anyone who has had a mom interrupt their gaming would use this. Do as your told, when your chores are done go play short quests/wilderness area's or a totally different type of game.
Anyone who has had wife aggro would use this. Make deals, spend time on day 1, game 3 hours without interruption on day 2, communication is an important key to a successful relationship.
Anyone who has an on call job would use this. should know better then to play a MMO, go slayer area/solo short quest or play other more casual games, you're basicly paid to wait, don't complain about a MMO
Anyone who only has a few minutes in small blocks would be able to use this. Do you really want me to repeat this?

I apologize if i hurt to many bleeding hearts, the strong emphasis in the posts are there to wake ya up.

a little wot but well said

[Hoglum]

So it would seem both you and that Charon fellow both used...

tinkerbell like guides

How precious.

[Charononus]

So it would seem both you and that Charon fellow both used...

tinkerbell like guides

How precious.

Yes because talking to people in a social game is the same as following the glowing line in your world got it. Please go play a console game, it's what you seem to want to do anyways.

[Hoglum]

All teasing aside, don't you guys think something like this might help us get BIGGER dungeons maybe? Or more people playing (even if they are people with jobs)?

I think things as they are are fine but imagine some seriously huge dungeon crawls. It might be cool. I doubt we'll ever see them with no method of saving the dungeon somehow. It could also be a nice way for Dungeons and Dragons to set itself apart from other MMO's. People might like -> IF there was a sound way to implement it. There are some good concerns here but perhaps they could be overcome.

Think of the possible future, not the small dungeons we already have & you'll see where I'm coming from. I'm talking 10 crucibles piled on top of each other. If you recall, you start over - BUT there are places you can stop to log out somehow.

[Hoglum]

Yes because talking to people in a social game is the same as following the glowing line in your world got it.

This is an absolutely amazing sentence. What on earth are you talking about?

[Charononus]

All teasing aside, don't you guys think something like this might help us get BIGGER dungeons maybe?

No because it will likely break the game so badly that they will close the servers immediately after because no one will be left. Even if it doesn't one of the things I liked about this game is that all quests can be done in under an hour.

Or more people playing (even if they are people with jobs)?

if I was their boss they would be fired, not accomediating them on this will likely help keep them employed. I'm just trying to help =P

I think things as they are are fine but imagine some seriously huge dungeon crawls. It might be cool. I doubt we'll ever see them with no method of saving the dungeon somehow.

Not really wow has always had this for raids and it just caused issues because you never got all the people back, and then you tried picking up a pug or an alternate, and it's always a pita.

It could also be a nice way for Dungeons and Dragons to set itself apart from other MMO's.

set it's self apart by incorporating a feature wow has had for a long time, umm.......

People might like -> IF there was a sound way to implement it.

There isn't even, even with no bugs the system causes problems.

There are some good concerns here but perhaps they could be overcome.

They can't be.

Think of the possible future,

I am, I think this is such a major change that the engine would have to have a total rewrite or it would completely break and kill the game.

not the small dungeons we already have & you'll see where I'm coming from. I'm talking 10 crucibles piled on top of each other. If you recall, you start over - BUT there are places you can stop to log out somehow.

Why would this be better? Now you get series of quests on a story line called gianthold, you do each quest and take a break, putting all of gianthold as one big quest would just be a headache.

[Charononus]

This is an absolutely amazing sentence. What on earth are you talking about?

you know the tinkerbell like guide statement you made? Aparently you don't understand what the other poster was referencing with it. Here's a picture from neverwinter so you can understand.

[lyrecono]

All teasing aside, don't you guys think something like this might help us get BIGGER dungeons maybe? Or more people playing (even if they are people with jobs)?

I think things as they are are fine but imagine some seriously huge dungeon crawls. It might be cool. I doubt we'll ever see them with no method of saving the dungeon somehow. It could also be a nice way for Dungeons and Dragons to set itself apart from other MMO's. People might like -> IF there was a sound way to implement it. There are some good concerns here but perhaps they could be overcome.

Think of the possible future, not the small dungeons we already have & you'll see where I'm coming from. I'm talking 10 crucibles piled on top of each other. If you recall, you start over - BUT there are places you can stop to log out somehow.

uhmmmm, i have a 40 hours a week job (though 50-60 comes closer)
I have a rich family live
i have friends who i spend time with
i teach/learn martial arts...
i don't mind people with jobs playing DDO

I wouldn't mind world largest dungeon type of thing either. (it could even have a prize for those who complete it first)
to hard to implement in ddo, but a separate engine and server....transferring your toon there (like Lamania), anly being able to save at certain (obtainable points) that actually looks like a nice idea
nobody would log back into the DDO servers though XD

[lyrecono]

[QUOTE=Charononus;5105858]you know the tinkerbell like guide statement you made? Aparently you don't understand what the other poster was referencing with it. Here's a picture from neverwinter so you can understand.

yep, thats the one

[RedHost]

just like people say no quest in ddo should take more than an hour, no dungeon in WoW ever took a few days unless you count all the time waiting for the group to fill, and all the retries after repeated wipe. Seriously even in the original WoW before the first expansions, actual time in dungeon for a single succesful run was only a matter of hours not days.

I really don't know how to even react to this. Either you have no experience with what you are talking about and just trying to make something up, or you honestly believe that the first people going into Molten Core were clearing it in one evening. Let alone another pre-expansion WoW dungeon like Nax, which has several dozen bosses, each of which could take an experienced group an hour each. Saying something just to say something is sounding far more likely....

DDO has absolutely nothing in the game like this. Nothing even close. DDO is an extremely casual game as it is, and has no reason to divert resources into something that would be a major change that nearly no one would have any reason to use.

This has nothing to do with hardcore players verses casual players. Since it was mentioned before, the very first time that I ever ran Chains of Flame, I did so in a PermaDeath group. We scouted out the encounters before we engaged them. We did not have the layout memorized. We worked out way through it extremely slowly. And still, the run was just over an hour and a half. It's hard to argue anything being more casual than a bunch of at-level players with sub-par gear playing extremely cautiously. I honestly can not see how it could take any longer than that without excessive amounts of AFKing.

Quests are intentionally kept to manageable chunks. This is why we have chains, such as Sorrowdusk, rather than simply making it two massive dungeon crawls as it would be in a published D&D module. If there is a problem with not being able to accomplish things in a two hour block, then perhaps time usage needs to be examined. Rather than wasting 40 minutes of that time getting everyone together, getting everyone ship buffs, realizing that you need to go back and sell off vendor trash, etc..... try getting that type of thing done before your group logs on. If everyone is ready to play, two hours should be enough to accomplish whatever you want to do.

[Havok.cry]

I have said my piece. I think it would be a good idea. I also don't think I will convince any of you of that. I know for sure none of you will ever convince me that it is not.

For clarity, I was not claiming it was needed, nor that it was deserved. Only that it would be useful, and helpful.

There are good reasons for it. Yes, there are ways around it so it is not needed. We all use those ways now, as the feature is not part of the game now, so I would assume no one needs to be told about them. There are some reasons not to have it, some intelligent (this is my opinion), and several that are not (again my opinion). More could be said, but I think I would be wasting my (figurative) breath. So I am calling it quits here.

[Missing_Minds]

I have said my piece. I think it would be a good idea. I also don't think I will convince any of you of that. I know for sure none of you will ever convince me that it is not.

I don't think many of us think that it is a bad idea.

But when you consider Turbine history, players taking advantage of bugs, etc. It would do more harm than good I fear, esp at this point in the game's life.

[Daine]

Anyway, something like that would be huge for us. It would allow people with only a couple hours (or less) at a time to fully enjoy the game.

/not signed

I'm not interested in playing a game that has some God like ability to stop time whenever you want. The challenge of playing in a persistent world makes it more immersive for me; I don't control all of time and space and were I to dissappear the world would roll on just fine without me.

For the OP:

I do have one character that has been in persistent party for 3 years now, we play once a week, start at 8pm and finish around 10:30pm. Sometimes work runs over and people are late, sometimes its a restless child at home that needs some attention and sometimes a player's wife "forgets" that we've been running a mid-week gaming session for years and schedules a dinner out with friends. Our 2 1/2 hours a week sometimes gets knocked down to about 90mins with a full party. When we have content that might take some time, we organise it the week before, we make sure that either at the end of the last session, or sometime during the week players:

-Have all their spell components, potions, scrolls, wands, etc
-Have emptied their backpacks of trash loot
-Have double checked availability with spouses
-Log on sometime before 8pm on the night to download any updates
-Are logged out fully buffed on the guild ship
-We use emails during the game day to remind each other that the session is on and what we're doing and how we need to start at 8pm.
-Finally we all make sure we're on at 8pm, fully buffed and ready to go, all knowing where we are going.

Frankly it's amazing how much you can get done with about 5 minutes of preparation.

It's not a military operation, we joke about hopelessly, we're all old friends of over 20 years acquaintance and in the normal week we're managers, engineers and an accountant (the thief in our party) but the difference between getting everyone online 20 minutes after our 'start time' then discussing what we're going to do and being prepared is a massive difference. Of course in the end we just use DDO as a vehicle to spend time together joking about and sharing what's happened in our lifes, but you can get any content in the game done in 2&1/2 hours with a little prep and still enjoy your time with friends.

[lyrecono]

/not signed

an accountant (the thief in our party)

a case of art imitating life? LOL XD

+1 for the rest of the post btw

[Meetch1972]

There's quite a bit of both going on, some seeming to be one while actually being the other and vice-versa.

Despite being extremely unlikely to be possible any time this year or the next or even the next, I still support the idea of the OP. DDO has been diverging from the system many pen and paper gamers have been using for decades, but wouldn't it be great if we could harness more of the spirit of D&D in this MMO?

How often would this happen in the pen and paper version?

Dungeon Master: "... and the thief gets 150XP extra for that amazing dance which allowed the rest of the party to escape. Ok folks, I'm off to the in-laws. See you next week." Adventure complete - yay!

Far more likely:

DM: "... and the kobold dies, shrieking something about "shoulda stayed in the waterworks". Dang, we're outta time - in-laws waiting and all that. I've got the order of initiative, and we'll see how the rest of the battle goes next week." Save here, resume next time.

There's also the difference between being shown how to run a quest and figuring it out for yourself. There are a significant number of people out there who would really appreciate the "no spoilers" approach, while others seem on a rush to get to the end. Part of TR / completionist life I guess (life 6 on my main here), but I still try to appreciate the new or even just learn something new, before trying to dominate it. What if the DM had said to himself "Darn, only an hour left and there's a lot to do." ... and then proceeds to hand the players a summary of the rest of the quest, the players choose one of the top 5 completion methods, and they finish the xp then and there. Or how about I make you read the walkthrough to your next single player adventure game? It took me somewhere under a full day to play my way through all of Portal when I first got it. Now it's a few hours - still rewarding to finish but the first time will always have been the best completion. And it has a save function which is far more forgiving than what was asked for in the OP.

Some people are more than happy just to watch a movie, others prefer to read the book first. That's probably the difference between a high powered team running a quest (even if they don't know it) and a social group who know they're under geared and are there for some atmosphere. But whether it's a book or a movie, I know most people hate it when someone finds out what they're about to watch, or sees the book in their hand, and tell them how it ends. "Oh yeah that's a good one, especially how you find out she's a man." What The ???

Those who want others to learn how the quest works before they can figure it out for themselves IMNSHO probably prefer to have the book or movie ending spelled out to them before they get to experience it for themselves, just so they can get to the next one quicker. If that's false, then they should avoid telling everyone who WANTS to sniff flowers to look up guides or just tell them do it, please! Of course these people shouldn't be joining zerg or "know it" groups if they want the new experience. A save / restore mechanism would allow those who want to appreciate all the detail that was hand crafted into quests to do so, without the need for spoilers in order to guarantee completion before dinner. Some people just don't care about XP/min - they're in it for the adventure, at least until they know the quest forwards, backwards and sideways.

I'd be reluctant to tell the devs to drop everything and get on it, because I've a fair idea that it would be a difficult and lengthy task - even before considering bugs, but if it could be done... awesome! (A proper object oriented code base might just allow for the proper saving / restoring of the states of all objects within a dungeon, but who am I to say this is actually how it is?) Those who know how to do every quest in under an hour - surely you've appreciated them when they were new and fresh, and XP wasn't as important ?

(And yeah Havok.cry - that idea to store save files on the PC was awful - I think it's been sufficiently explained as to why )

Chillax and enjoy the game, and please stop trying to make newbies, who just want to run at their own pace, feel like noobs. If they want to learn, teach them how to play - and if they don't, it still doesn't hurt to offer advice. If they want to know a short cut, by all means show them, but please don't alienate them if they want a chance to figure it all out for themselves. You don't HAVE to stand and watch, you know.

I've said more than enough on this. Happy hunting all...