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  1. #21
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I am all for casual gamming but I am sorry I just don't see the need for this type of feature in DDO. For me having the optional XP earned on the spot helps groups continue to move forward even if they don't have time now to complete the whole quest.


    And I'm one that spent 5 hours in a ELITE VON3 back long ago my first time through when XP death penalty existed and shrines could only be used once, even the raise shrines. It took us 45 minutes to get to the end fight, and the rest of the time to beat the boss - no TR, no TWINK and even then after I completed I walked out 1 level lower then when I started. Sure we should of just quit after the 3rd attempt but boy was it fun .

  2. #22
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Were you taking five min breaks after killing each mob? Seriously I don't know how that quest could take that long and it's one of the longer quests I can think of.

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    There is no need for this because the longest quests in ddo can be done in under two hours by a flower sniffing group as long as they aren't literally taking a 5 minute break after each kill.
    Solo at level elite chains of flame. I was on a AA elf fighter back in 2010, when the devs still really hated ranged combat... it sometimes took me five minutes just to kill a mob. I picked up every collectible, did every optional. I rescued every slave, even the extra ones. When you don't have spells helping you out, to get some of them I had to drop down and re-cover ground I had already cleared... I had to do this many times. The map was unfamiliar (and I won't look at the wiki on my first time through a dungeon) to me and I got turned around in this process several times. I had to examine all the ledges to see if they went anywhere. I had to figure out why there were portals way down in the lava. I had no blindness ward item and no remove blindness pots until I looted the ogre magi chest. That fight took a long time. I had no speed boosts as I was not the best player at keeping, or even sometimes getting, consumables, and it was my first life. Now days I can complete it a lot faster than that first run (average 30 minutes solo, same archer a few lives later). Coalescence chamber took me longer on my first run though... also solo. Shadow crypt took me about four hours the first time through, no wiki, no guide, solo, same archer.

    I do have to point out to you, that while any group CAN complete any quest in a fairly short amount of time, very few quests have time limits, and no one is bound by forum instituted time limits on their quests unless they want to be.

    What I am wondering is, since this would have no impact on your gameplay at all, and it would improve the gameplay of others, why are you opposed to the idea? I know alot of solo players who would love this feature. I know a lot of players that are parents or spouses that would love this feature. I know a lot of horny guys with willing girlfriends-that-need-it-now-not-later that would love this feature. I know drunken people who fall asleep at the keyboard that would love this feature. So again, why would you be opposed to a feature that would have no impact on you at all, but would help many others enjoy the game more?
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 09-17-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    and don't expect them to implement a special mechanic
    My expectations of turbine are low.... pretty much non-existant. I would expect an ant colony under my house to start cooking me twelve course meals on silver, before I would actually expect turbine to do anything I want. That won't stop me from wanting turbine to do things. I hope you can appreciate the difference between wanting and expecting.
    Matt Walsh:
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  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    What I am wondering is, since this would have no impact on your gameplay at all, and it would improve the gameplay of others, why are you opposed to the idea? I know alot of solo players who would love this feature. I know a lot of players that are parents or spouses that would love this feature. I know a lot of horny guys with willing girlfriends-that-need-it-now-not-later that would love this feature. I know drunken people who fall asleep at the keyboard that would love this feature. So again, why would you be opposed to a feature that would have no impact on you at all, but would help many others enjoy the game more?
    1) Dev time is limited, doing this would take dev's off of other things whether it be new content or bug fixes.

    2) I have zero confidence that it would go well, I think it would have the potential to break quests for a significant amount of time before it was fixed.

    3) Someone would find a griefing method to do it.

    It fails risk/reward is my basic reasoning.

  5. #25
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    1) Dev time is limited, doing this would take dev's off of other things whether it be new content or bug fixes.
    What if it takes dev time away from "Improving the UI" or some other thing that everyone despises? Devs are going to spend time on other things than new content and bug fixes. They do something other than those two in every update. This is a superior option to something that actually impacts your gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    2) I have zero confidence that it would go well, I think it would have the potential to break quests for a significant amount of time before it was fixed.
    I agree, turbine is great at breaking things and mediocre at everything else. New content and Bug Fixes have proven to have the highest chance of breaking things though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    3) Someone would find a griefing method to do it.
    With enough imagination, you can find a greifing method to do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It fails risk/reward is my basic reasoning.
    By your statements and my basic reasoning, anything turbine could ever do fails risk/reward. I would rather them attempt something that some would want and others not care, than attempt something most despise and a few not care about. Whatever they attempt, something will break.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    If I were designing this feature, this is what I would do:

    I would have it be a permanent character item in the DDO store (they have to make money somehow, and I would be willing to spend TP on this). It would be an item in your inventory that sets up a tent. Only you could enter it. You go in, log off and when you log back in you leave the tent and are back in the dungeon exactly where you left it. Other party members would not be able to use it, they would need there own. You could group in tent only with people who were in your party when you entered the tent.

    It may need refining, but that is the basics of what I would do.
    Matt Walsh:
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  7. #27
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    What if it takes dev time away from "Improving the UI" or some other thing that everyone despises? Devs are going to spend time on other things than new content and bug fixes. They do something other than those two in every update. This is a superior option to something that actually impacts your gameplay.
    Most of those have been getting a framework ready for other money grab type things, they'll shut the servers off before they take people off of those projects.
    I agree, turbine is great at breaking things and mediocre at everything else. New content and Bug Fixes have proven to have the highest chance of breaking things though.
    Actually I think a major mechanic and data storage change like this would have far far higher risk than any new content. It'd be similar to the physics engine update and that broke soooooooo many things.
    With enough imagination, you can find a greifing method to do anything.
    True enough but the goal should be to not make it easy.

  8. #28
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Most of those have been getting a framework ready for other money grab type things, they'll shut the servers off before they take people off of those projects.
    If you make it a DDO store item, it IS one of those things and by default would take those people. Heck you could make it a DDO store item like my one post suggests, and then make it take astral shards to set the tent up each time.
    Matt Walsh:
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaniac View Post
    Lots of multi-player games allow saving (in some older ones it was fundamental), and the developers really have all the things they need. As I said before, it's a suggestion, not a design document, and it might not make sense in pick-up-groups.
    Name one MMO that has this and what multiplayer games other than RTS games have this? I cant think of any multiplayer rpg's that might have it single player ones yes but this is a pretty much a completely unworkable idea for a MMO plus pretty pointless given the time it takes to complete a quest here, if you cant finish one come back and do it the next time if you have a static group.


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  10. #30
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Name one MMO that has this and what multiplayer games other than RTS games have this? I cant think of any multiplayer rpg's that might have it single player ones yes but this is a pretty much a completely unworkable idea for a MMO plus pretty pointless given the time it takes to complete a quest here, if you cant finish one come back and do it the next time if you have a static group.
    WoW currently allows you to save your progress in raids. I despise wow almost as much as I despise the forgotten realms (its really close), but sometimes they have a good idea.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    WoW currently allows you to save your progress in raids. I despise wow almost as much as I despise the forgotten realms (its really close), but sometimes they have a good idea.
    Back when I played wow it was also a major pita.

  12. #32
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Default Yes please, but ...

    I'm all for the general principle. The hard part is how to implement, and how hard depends on what's under the covers.

    Key points to how I see it might work:
    * It could only be done when no encounters are under way - perhaps only at rest shrines.
    * Some sort of object save / restore framework for dungeon instances and all the contents.
    * Leader hits the save button. Assuming it's "safe" to do so, all timers within the dungeons and on the characters are paused, the dungeon instance saves everything, toons have the option to log out and appear in a "running quest X" state at the login screen, or leave the dungeon.
    * The instance closes when everyone is out - logged out or left the dungeon.
    * On first reentry, the dungeon object is restored in its entirety. All item use is locked out, all timers on all buffs / debuffs are paused. Characters cannot move (but can talk, emote and/or choose to leave the dungeon). If characters leave the dungeon, the instance will re-save unless everyone who was in it at the save has left, in which case it would reset.
    * There's a resume button that appears to the leader after everyone is in or nobody has entered for 2 minutes (Sorry George, we're running without you). Hit the button, plug in how many seconds to count down (say allow from 5 seconds to 20).
    * Everyone gets the countdown to dungeon resume. Then all timers are resumed and all gameplay returns to normal.
    * Late returners are treated as if they had DCed and returned. If the dungeon has completed, they find themselves outside the entrance or explorer area when they enter.

    If it's done right, there would be no exploit opportunity, though it does take away the immersion while it's happening. The keys though are:
    * That you can step away from the quest if you want
    * That you can choose to continue the quest if you want
    * That it's a genuine pause / save facility for those who want it, with no do-over functionality.

    Darn tricky to pull off, but if it happened I'd be most impressed. I'd be guessing almost every dungeon would need a rewrite to support it though, even if relatively minor.
    Last edited by Meetch1972; 09-18-2013 at 06:00 AM. Reason: typo... yeah, I'm fussy
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    WoW currently allows you to save your progress in raids. I despise wow almost as much as I despise the forgotten realms (its really close), but sometimes they have a good idea.
    Personallly I dont call that a good idea but thats me and yah FR is much worse than WoW


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  14. #34
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    While the save function might be useful for some, i still find it a bad idea.

    I could have used it a few times when i have been called away in the middle of a quest for an emergency or other, but still i dont like the idea at all.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  15. #35
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    As an alternative method to copy all the information, close it down, and then reload it when you return, how about an item that logs you off, but still keeps your presence active in the dungeon? Much like how if you get disconnected, if you log back on within a certain time you're still in the dungeon - when you use the item, you suspend the DC timer until you log back in again. This way, the dungeon is preserved, and I think a timer suspension would be a bit easier to implement then entire dungeon copy/paste system. The downside is that if your party continues without you, you return to an empty dungeon and possibly lose out on chest contents. But, if you're playing with a regular group or soloing, the risk of that is minimal.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

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  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    WoW currently allows you to save your progress in raids. I despise wow almost as much as I despise the forgotten realms (its really close), but sometimes they have a good idea.
    Lets put things in perspective as well.

    While I've not played WoW once, I've a few friends that played it for a long long time. Heck a few got married to the folks they met through WoW. And back then... a raid could take a few days. So in order to take breaks they had saves. Heck, I think LoTRO has something similar now that I think back for the same reason.

    So... what quests do we have that can take days?

  17. #37
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Lets put things in perspective as well.

    While I've not played WoW once, I've a few friends that played it for a long long time. Heck a few got married to the folks they met through WoW. And back then... a raid could take a few days. So in order to take breaks they had saves. Heck, I think LoTRO has something similar now that I think back for the same reason.

    So... what quests do we have that can take days?
    Personally, I gave up on Everquest many years ago when I could never guarantee sitting at the PC for more than a few hours (and I was single back then!), and WoW is of course much worse if it takes days... DDO is a godsend for my sporadic ability to commit to play.

    The static group who have never seen the quest will take hours at least to run some stuff, especially running no spoilers at level. How long might it take such a group to get through their first Shroud ? Granted this group is on the fringe of users, but they do exist. I joined one for lols, carefully avoiding showing or telling them how the quests they were running were done, and they were learning, but rushing anything usually meant death somewhere - even me rushing ahead, despite knowing what to expect. We had fun, even if for completely different reasons. Our play window was 3 hours - enough to run 1 or 2 reasonable length quests, and revisit a quest for higher favor toward the end if they were pretty sure they could do it based on past experience.

    Now if a casual group only gets a 1 or 2 hour window to play say once a week, I can imagine them getting deterred by a quest entrance saying "Duration: Very Long". It would be a waste running things like Crucible, Von 5 (+6), quests you can get lost in or have to figure out puzzles or lead rats through a maze...

    Also, having a save/restore mechanism of sorts might provide for the ability to create epic length quests - even if you're soloing, a real dungeon crawl could be spread over several hours played across many days. I believe it has potential if thought through and done properly. So I'm for the idea.

    But... it won't be easy to implement. Of that I'm pretty sure.
    Goe ahed... korekt mah spelin'.

  18. #38
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    As an alternative method to copy all the information, close it down, and then reload it when you return, how about an item that logs you off, but still keeps your presence active in the dungeon?
    Maintaining an instance for a character that isn't logged in would at the least consume significantly more memory. Multiply that by the number of characters each user has and we'd have the potential to grief Turbine. Hence I wouldn't consider keeping anything open (but disk is relatively cheap in comparison to save everything needed by an instance or even save the instance as a memory dump to disk for loading back later like some kind of quasi Virtual Machine).
    Goe ahed... korekt mah spelin'.

  19. #39
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Default flabergasted

    i...i...i don't believe it, so long for a quest???

    how about taking half competent people with you?
    Trie shorter quest?
    Use the lfm to ask for a guide?
    Learn to play faster (striding boots, haste clickies, not being drunk, stoned or both resulting in falling asleep every 5 minutes?)
    Go to a medical specialist and get your Narcileptic tendencies looked at?

    anyway,

    /NOT SIGNED!

    I rather have the dev's create new raids, new packs, create real named loot (instead of a lazy random named loot generator).
    To much time and effort has already been spend to cater to the lowest denominator
    why waste the dev's time for something that could be easely remedied in game?

    i realy wished i could use this beautifull qoute
    Well, what I want you to do is pull up your frilly stockings, tighten your thong, and stop being such ...

    but i'm afraid some one might get offended, so i'll put it like this:

    Please stop wasting the forum's time, before some one at Turbine reads this and thinks this is a good idea and pull's resources away.

  20. #40
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meetch1972 View Post
    Personally, I gave up on Everquest many years ago when I could never guarantee sitting at the PC for more than a few hours (and I was single back then!), and WoW is of course much worse if it takes days... DDO is a godsend for my sporadic ability to commit to play.

    The static group who have never seen the quest will take hours at least to run some stuff, especially running no spoilers at level. How long might it take such a group to get through their first Shroud ? Granted this group is on the fringe of users, but they do exist. I joined one for lols, carefully avoiding showing or telling them how the quests they were running were done, and they were learning, but rushing anything usually meant death somewhere - even me rushing ahead, despite knowing what to expect. We had fun, even if for completely different reasons. Our play window was 3 hours - enough to run 1 or 2 reasonable length quests, and revisit a quest for higher favor toward the end if they were pretty sure they could do it based on past experience.

    Now if a casual group only gets a 1 or 2 hour window to play say once a week, I can imagine them getting deterred by a quest entrance saying "Duration: Very Long". It would be a waste running things like Crucible, Von 5 (+6), quests you can get lost in or have to figure out puzzles or lead rats through a maze...

    Also, having a save/restore mechanism of sorts might provide for the ability to create epic length quests - even if you're soloing, a real dungeon crawl could be spread over several hours played across many days. I believe it has potential if thought through and done properly. So I'm for the idea.

    But... it won't be easy to implement. Of that I'm pretty sure.
    Von 5/6 are raids, not quests, they are meant to last longer but honnestly? 20 min each should suffice.
    Also, it can't be solo'd due to game mechanics.
    If you want to learn how to play them fast, send a in game email/tell or make a forum post resembling this:

    Hi, i would like to learn how to do von 5-6 in a fast manner, i do however have a limited window of oppertunity to play: <insert game time/date>
    Could a patient group of vets take me along for the ride and explain how it works?
    these are my toons <insert names>
    i bet some one will help you in no time.

    Remember, this is an MMO, the quest are designed to cater to 4-6 people with different class abilities, if you can't do lengthy quests in time on your own, strongly consider grouping up. Otherwise, i recomend playing something like Skyrim or Oblivion, i think it has co-op mods.

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