Paradigm Shift : how we are looking at Epic Reincarnation

[Braegan]

Plz make so only WF can TR into bladeforged, Only humans into shader kai, only elves into morning lords, humans into purple dragon knights. Come up with other iconics that only dwraves, drow, and hobbits can TR in to.

While a nice idea for Flavor, completely disregards the whole point and mechanic of a TR. It is a chance to completely change everything about you save your name and gender. No. Anyone, of any race should be able to TR into a new Race/Iconic.

[EllisDee37]

...and also change your gender.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Aww and here I was hoping that the points in each sphere would be listed in some kind of square-shaped layout and be called the ED Sphere Grid...

square-shaped sphere... i like it.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Oh, and pretty please all Completionist Feat(s)= auto granted.

And stacks three times, pretty please with sugar on top.

[Rubbinns]

Really liking the new changes to everything. Keeps things alive and interesting. Breaking them in slowly is the hard part.

[Satyriasys]

If we TR from 28 to 20 quests will need to reset like they do during heroic TR so we can get first time bonuses again.

[Atremus]

<snip>

DDO highfive for this greatest news

Our current plan for Epic Past Life feats is to tie a few of these feats to each Sphere, instead of tying each Past Life to a specific Epic Destiny.

Varg this is pretty nice to read. Looking forward to seeing the final implementation

[maddong]

Sounds cool so far!

[sirgog]

Much better than the original idea.

I don't think it would be an issue at all if you lost XP in a destiny of your choice in the sphere you are reincarnating in. The original idea's problem was that you lost the XP in the horrible destinies (Exalted Angel on a rogue, etc).

Example: You are playing a Wizard that is level 28, capped on Draconic Incarnation and Magister (let's call capped level 6 even though technically it is 5; level 5 without max possible XP would remain level 5), and at level 4 in Fatesinger. Your only out-of-sphere ED is level 2 in Shadowdancer. You Epic TR as a Draconic Incarnation.

Now you return as a level 20 Wizard. You gain 6 arcane karma (as you sacrificed a max level DI), lose all your DI XP, but remain capped in Magister, and keep your XP in Fatesinger and Shadowdancer. Relevelling to 28 will cap you in DI again easily, and you'll also have enough XP by the time you hit 28 to cap Fatesinger and Shadowdancer if you want.


Whatever happens, don't let epic TR benefits stack as high as heroic TR benefits. The 9 spellpen and 4 to (some) DCs you get for running the caster lives (5 to DCs if you go to the point of completionist) are gamebreaking to the point that first life DC casters are not even remotely close to viable in endgame content. Further insane stacking bonuses will widen the gap between those with time to grind and those without.



Finally, what is the mechanism for undergoing epic TR going to be? It should be similar to heroic TR (available in the store but also in-game via a modest grind that is not luck based). I don't mind a one-month store only period but after that it should be reasonably accessible to players. (Not a rare EE only drop).

[Mystera]

Well let's not confuse why there are not LFMs for the new content on EE as to why folks would rather run old epics for XP. The new quests are not that good at XP/Min and the Loot is nothing to write home about. It has nothing to do with the power of our characters, I could easily join/form groups for new EE Content. Truth is, it's not worth my time because there is nothing I really want from it (loot wise) and the XP sucks for the time invested.

Tell me about it. It took our group 2 hours and 15 mins to run EE What Goes Up last night, with the main problem being that the final fight cost the 3 casters, myself included, an average of 40 pots each. I mean respawning groups of 20-30 EE mobs with a boss that has 250k hit points and is hard to hit since he teleports all over the map? Common, get real, I will never set foot in the quest again. The XP and loot are terrible and not worth that amount of effort and resources. I lost track of how many threads we made on Lammania telling them the named loot was terrible and the XP per minute was bad. But they never did listen, so they shouldn't be surprised when nobody is running the new content (our server is now down to only 10-15 LFMs, and a lot of times there are none for lvl 20+ content). A shame too, I think the Stormhorns area is absolutely gorgeous, but I'm not going to waste my time and resources for a chance to pull **** loot and for **** XP.

[Deadlock]

I'm slightly confused by a post saying that you have new stuff to tell us which only tells us some thing that you seemingly won't be doing without giving us the details that we need to voice an informed decision on your proposal.

I'm not usually one to ask for less communication, but in this instance I'll make an exception.

Why say anything until you have something to tell us? Did you think that a teaser announcement would generate a positive vibe among the forum community?

Right now you've told us nothing apart from the fact that there will be something to tell us soonish. The fact we won't lose all ED XP as the stupidily naive initial proposal stated isn't new news.

You don't really expect us to believe that all decisions are currently in a state of flux and it will be at least 7 or 14 days before a producer has an announcement to make, and this is just a pre-announcement of a an announcement still to come - especially when there is no proposal for us to respond to.

So just cut to the chase - tell us what the current proposal is and we'll give you proper feedback.

[Mystera]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

Anyone else smell another blatant money grab here? Epic reincarnation points in the store anyone?

Also, there is no way I'm going to grind out another 6.6million xp per epic TR x 3 lives x 4 spheres = 79.2 million XP. In fact given the significant decline in LFMs for epic content, the poor XP per minute, and the requirement to earn ~3/4 of this XP in an off destiny, there is no way in hell I would do more than 1-2 epic TRs. Heck, I can't even stand to run a single quest in an off destiny...not to mention people will grief you or not let you into their group if you do.

[Deadlock]

A shift in such paradigm is when something you thought to be true is actually false... at least for my intended usage. We thought the world was flat, then we learned it is round. Or... we thought the Epic loop had to take you to Lv 1 and at great cost (and there were valid design reasons to do so). When that limitation was lifted a new pattern emerged.

So if you Epic TR at level 28 at 20 Sorc/8 Epic then you gain a Sorcerer Past Life Feat just like you would have done at 20, plus an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat?

If not, there's no point Epic TRing until you've exhausted the Heroic TR option.

If you do gain a Sorcerer PL Feat and start again at 20 on your way to your next Epic TR at 28, which class do you start off in? Do you get a free reincarnate with enough XP to go all the way to 20 or are you stuck in a repetition of the previous life you have just done with only your Epic XP to regain to shape your next Epic TR?

[Braegan]

Tell me about it. It took our group 2 hours and 15 mins to run EE What Goes Up last night, with the main problem being that the final fight cost the 3 casters, myself included, an average of 40 pots each. I mean respawning groups of 20-30 EE mobs with a boss that has 250k hit points and is hard to hit since he teleports all over the map? Common, get real, I will never set foot in the quest again. The XP and loot are terrible and not worth that amount of effort and resources. I lost track of how many threads we made on Lammania telling them the named loot was terrible and the XP per minute was bad. But they never did listen, so they shouldn't be surprised when nobody is running the new content (our server is now down to only 10-15 LFMs, and a lot of times there are none for lvl 20+ content). A shame too, I think the Stormhorns area is absolutely gorgeous, but I'm not going to waste my time and resources for a chance to pull **** loot and for **** XP.

Yeah, that is a tough one for sure. And, I am sure I am not the only one that would eat that kind of time-sink, resource intensiveness if it was worth it. It is a fun quest to run a couple times. But it ( like most of the xpac) has little re-playability, poor xp, and meh loot.

I like DDO. I would like to be a happy hamster at the wheel. But, this xpac is terrible for keeping any interest. I run older epics because they are better designed and are more fun and more xp. It has nothing to do with the power we have achieved. The reason LFMs for the newer quests are not more abundant is because they pale in comparison to the superior design of older content. What Goes Up is the most fun quest in the Xpac, but it's not worth running more then a few times.

[Silverleafeon]

...EE What Goes Up last night...

That is a Quaid (6 man raid) and as such it will provide future challenge to players when the level cap is 30 and ed are 10...
Maybe we will see more Quaids in the future?

There are tricks you can learn, but still that is a new creature in the lineup...

[Gavroshe]

Just to get this out of the way, I love the idea of calling the "sphere points" "Karma" (Rinnaldo you are a genius)


Ok, so the idea that current triple completionists are getting screwed by having to do more TR's than someone just starting the game is incorrect. A new player will need to do 36 full epic TRs ( so break it down as 36 1-20s, and 36 20-28), whereas a triple completionist has done 36 1-20s, and now only has to do 36 20-28s. The math was flawed in considering 1-28 and 20-28 both as an equal TR.

As to the whining (yes, you are) about leveling in off destinies just stop. It hurts my head. I would LOVE to level up a fighter while simultaneously getting the benefits for leveling every other class in the game...But that would be silly. The idea that you can glean additional knowledge from activities outside your main focus is both realistic and an awesome game dynamic. Just because I hated geography doesn't mean I'm not better for sitting through the lectures.

When I play games I'm a 1 toon guy, I want to focus my time on my main only, and Until DDO I only played dwarf barbarian (or the closest to it the game would allow) but with DDO's unique TR system, I branched out and played a fighter, then a paladin, then I got crazy and rocked a bard and cleric life. The last two are VERY counter to my normal play style, it was more difficult and I had a steep learning curve to overcome and that made some things perhaps "less fun" but I have such a better understanding of those classes, what they can do and where they can be utilized I am PERSONALLY a better DDO player for it, and low and behold my toon receives past life's and steps toward completionist that make HIM a better toon for the learning experience. This is brilliant, period.

(*note, in this paragraph "class" means school, not DDO classes) Nobody requires you to TR, nobody asks you to run off destinies, but if you want the "knowledge and experience" from bard school, you have to GO to bard school. If you want the twists you have to be a scholar in more than 1 class. Even if you take nothing from that class (I.E. a twists from that ED) just the act of taking the class makes you a smarter person.

Now I can finally address Glin's post. Mildly disappointed... i mean, here I am, all doomed up with nowhere to go! For the sanity of the forums perhaps you could throw a little spark? ya know, "Truest druidic hearts of wood, only available in Otto's irresistableist box, CC sales only." My torch is starting to flicker!

I did want to suggest that if you add twists or fate points for eTR you may want to have them separate from our existing twists and FP. I say this only because if there became crazy unforseen overpower combinations you could adjust the new line restrictions instead of trying to rebalance the whole ED world around the now possible 142 fate points (hyperbole)


-Codence of Cannith
All doomed up with nowhere to go!

[Silverleafeon]

Just to get this out of the way, I love the idea of calling the "sphere points" "Karma" (Rinnaldo you are a genius)

Sounds like fun to me.

[PermaBanned]

So if you Epic TR at level 28 at 20 Sorc/8 Epic then you gain a Sorcerer Past Life Feat just like you would have done at 20, plus an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat?

If not, there's no point Epic TRing until you've exhausted the Heroic TR option.

If you do gain a Sorcerer PL Feat and start again at 20 on your way to your next Epic TR at 28, which class do you start off in? Do you get a free reincarnate with enough XP to go all the way to 20 or are you stuck in a repetition of the previous life you have just done with only your Epic XP to regain to shape your next Epic TR?

Here's the short version:
ETR from 28 down to 20 = Destiny past life.
ETR from 28 down to 1 = Heroic and Destiny past lives.

No specific word yet about whether only dropping down to 20 will allow all the changes (class, race etc) TRing back to level one allows. (As it's a reincarnation I am assuming so until contradicted)

[Delacroix21]

The whole beauty of TRing is that you get a FREE feat (no one really cares about the purchaseable ones). The problem is the "master achievement" of TRing offers nothing.... UNLESS you spend a feat slot.


This needs to be changed....


I would also like to see a 2nd and 3rd completionist feat for double and triple completionists as well. Am I a completionist? Nope... I am a first lifer sitting on 14 ottos boxes. Make these changes and you will expect even more ottos boxes to be purchased by me. =)

[kierg10]

Are the devs gonna say anything on whether you keep the same build or auto level to 20 a new build?

Would really like some input here :P