Paradigm Shift : how we are looking at Epic Reincarnation

[Tevain]

Any thoughts on heroic past lives? Some aren't even worth the effort to TR for them and considered pretty meh. They could really use a pass.

Don't you dare touch my 3 Ranger PL's on my AA!

except if you boost them ofc, and no doubleshot with the current aftereffects from Manyshot/10k Stars is NOT an option

[Dmnqwk]

When it comes to heroic past lives, some of them are good (+1 all skills, +1 dc), some are situational (+2 ranged damage, +1 turn attempt) and some are... yeah (+1 damage to sneak attacks)

Just what is your goal with the power level of these?

Would we see for example:
Arcane Sphere - Puppet Master. Your voice hums with a magical overture, confusing and disorienting all around you. Enemies without 30ft are subject to a Mass Charm Monster spell (DC 10+level+ highest int/cha). Cooldown 3 minutes.
Martial Sphere - Put some welly into it. When wielding a two-handed weapon, you add twice your attribute modifier to damage instead of 1.5 times. When dual wielding, you add your full bonus to offhand attacks.

Or would we be more in line to expect
Divine - Piety. Your cure spells are 10% more effective and your smites deal 10% more damage.
Martial - Blind Fighting. You can reroll the miss chance for invisible or concealed foes.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Well,,, it is nice that you're providing some early info on the direction you're looking at, however, I will dissent from the chorus and state a concern on one point mentioned.

If ED's will largely retained for epic TR, and you drop from level cap to level 20, it seems to me that there is... too easy. There is not a lot of difference between levels 20 and 28. Skill and hit points aside, not to mention the epic feats are cute, but the power is in the EDs (and their twists). Getting from level 20-28 is no great feat with capped EDs.

TR of any flavor should mean something a bit more, it should be a mark of accomplishment.

I suggest all TRing start a character over at level 1. Yes I recognize than many will claim that's not what they want, but remember we love this game and love to play it. Follow the advice from this excellent article on game design http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...om/daily/mr253 and don't break rule #5 from this preceding article http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...com/daily/mr68

[EllisDee37]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

Awesome. My only worry has evaporated.

[maddmatt70]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)
.

So we still have to spend time in Destinies which are ill fitting our character in order to both earn twist points and to earn points in a sphere which is not our character's main destiny for the purposes of true reincarnation. Sounds very unfun. I am little bit more onboard with this in terms of epic reincarnation, but not at all for twisted fate points despite that being the current way that things are done. Make DDO more fun by providing incentives for fun things instead of unfun things. As I posted in a thread in the general discussion provide incentives to my fighter for playing the most recent released quests in his favorite destiny at whatever quest difficulty he chooses to play instead of providing incentives for running 1-3 year old quests in a poor destiny for his build on epic normal/hard.

[Silverleafeon]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)

Nice, looking forward to earning Spear Points...

We are leaning towards not doing this in the same way as Heroic Past Lives. We'd rather spend time making the granted Past Lives better. However, we are considering having activated, granted Past Lives, so activated abilities are still a possibility.

Past Life abilities that cost a feat = not popular.

Iconic Heroes are essentially a separate system with their own design.

It is unlikely that Epic Completionist would involve Iconic Past Lives.
Iconic Heroes can perform Epic Reincarnations like any other character.
We don't currently intend for the existing Heroic Completionist to be affected by Epic or Iconic Past Lives.

We'll discuss more Iconic Hero details later on.

Perfect.

More Iconics plus Iconic Completionist someday.

Oh, and pretty please all Completionist Feat(s)= auto granted.

[Braegan]

If you have amazing ideas for possible Epic Past Lives, now is a good time to try to squeak those ideas into our ears!

Just some off the top of the head ideas...

Divine

Choose one of:

Emissary of the Heavens

10% increase to Positive and Light Spell Power and 2% increase to generate Criticals when casting Positive and Light Spells. This can stack up to 3 times for 30% increase in Spell Power ( Light and Positive) and 6% Chance to Crit.

Sovereign Defender

10% Increase to generate Hate, 5% Healing Amp, 5 PRR. This can stack up to 3 times for 30% Hate, 15% Heal Amp, 15 PRR

Martial

Choose one of:

One with All

3% Stacking Elemental Absorbtion, .5(W) Damage when centered, 5% Run Speed. This can stack 3 times for 9% Stacking Elemental Absorbtion, 1.5(W) Damage when centered, 15% Run Speed.

The Shadow in the Dark

3% Dodge, 2% Dodge Cap increase. This can stack 3 times for 9% Dodge, 6% Dodge Cap inrease.

The Blade and I

+2 to Tactical Feats DCs, Each time you Vorpal 10% Chance to regain 2 uses of Action Boosts. This can stack 3 times for +6 to Tactical Feat DCs and 30% Chance to regain 2 uses of Action Boosts.

Arcane

Choose one of

The Wyrm

10% increase to damage with Elemental Spell Power, 2% chance to generate Crits with Elemental Spells. This can stack up to 3 times for 30% increase to Elemental Spell Power and 6% chance to generate Crits.

Master of the Weave

+2 DCs to all spells, 5% Increase to Force and Untyped Spell Power. This can stack up to 3 times for +6 to DCs and 15% increase to Force and Untyped Spell Power.

Master of Ceremonies

+1 use of Bardic Songs, +2 to Perform Skill, Inspire Courage grants additional +1hit/+1damage, 5% Increase to Sonic Spell Power. This can stack up to 3 times for +3 uses of Bardic Songs, +6 to Perform, Inspire Courage +3 hit/+3 Damage and 15% Sonic Spell Power.

Primal

Choose one of

The Blood Boils

2% stacking Doublestrike/Doubleshot, +2 Damage. This can stack up to 3 times for 6% Doublestrike/Doubleshot and +6 to Damage.

Chosen of the Fey

+2 Damage with Ranged Weapon, +5% Ranged Arlacity, +10% Universal Spell Power. This can stack up to 3 times for +6 to Ranged Damage, +15% Ranged Arlacity, +30% Universal Spell Power.

The Harvester

+3% Attack Speed while TWF, +2 to all Stats of Summoned Creatures, +5% Elemental Spell Power. This can stack up to 3 times for +9% Attack Speed while TWF, +6 to all stats of Summoned Creatures, +15% Elemental Spell Power.



Well that's my off the top of head thoughts.

/cheers.

[BOgre]

Heroic lives require more XP to level. I'm hoping that Epic lives do not require inflated 'sphere points' with each reincarnation.

[Candela90]

TR of any flavor should mean something a bit more, it should be a mark of accomplishment.

I suggest all TRing start a character over at level 1. Yes I recognize than many will claim that's not what they want, but remember we love this game and love to play it. Follow the advice from this excellent article on game design http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...om/daily/mr253 and don't break rule #5 from this preceding article http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...com/daily/mr68

Yes... it should feel accomplishment not boredom and feeling of time waste.
Well... Why time waste?
Imagine youre a player who did at least completionist or triple completionist - and yet has to go thro it AGAIN to get epic TR PL. So basically with your system - someone who starts playing now and TRing with ETRs would have to do 39 TRs to be triple completionist with all Epic PLs and Heroic PLs while the player who did triple completionist before would have to do (depends on how many PLs from EDs we will have, but lets assume its 9 stackable 3 times like many ppl are suggesting). So this player to get the same as player 1 would have to do 66 lifes.
66 lifes? Are you crazy? :P Its not love for game - ppl planning on it should be hospitalized :P. Well.. if theyre planning on PLAYING it not buying with pots and otto boxes.

Now completionist. Just normal example - not crazy like above. with your system player with completionist now would have to do (sll together) 22 lifes, while the other starting player only 13.
Its a big difference making players who spend X years improving their characters feel like they throw away their time.
Bcs yeah... Playing game is fun. grinding XP for 22 times is not :P. Its not fun for 6+ for me to be honest.


Also - going from lvl 20 to 28 for me is long time. From 20 to 25 takes me around 3 weeks. From 25 to 28 around the same time. Yeah - Im not hardcore player. I play 2-3 hours a day max - well sometimes longer but 2-3 hours is when i do quests. Other times im just chatting with some friends while beeing bored or waiting for group.
So with 30 lvls soon coming I think 2 months for leveling a character is enough accomplishment. 1-20 takes me around 1,5 month so its pretty comparable.

I hate it that some elitists come in and say like : make drop for +5 and +6 tomes lower, givre us 20 new past lifes to grind out - I mean TR 1-20 is only 1 week right? Zerg ppl.
From your change zergers and elitist would be actually more happy. Normal and casual players - not so much. Bcs sure - going for goal is fun. But not if the goal is 2+ years away from you and you know that in 2 years there will be ton of new stuff to keep up with.

[Trillea]

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)

Aww and here I was hoping that the points in each sphere would be listed in some kind of square-shaped layout and be called the ED Sphere Grid...

[Grosbeak07]

So we still have to spend time in Destinies which are ill fitting our character in order to both earn twist points and to earn points in a sphere which is not our character's main destiny for the purposes of true reincarnation. Sounds very unfun. I am little bit more onboard with this in terms of epic reincarnation, but not at all for twisted fate points despite that being the current way that things are done. Make DDO more fun by providing incentives for fun things instead of unfun things. As I posted in a thread in the general discussion provide incentives to my fighter for playing the most recent released quests in his favorite destiny at whatever quest difficulty he chooses to play instead of providing incentives for running 1-3 year old quests in a poor destiny for his build on epic normal/hard.

I could be reading this wrong, but V did say that you will continue to earn points, even if your destiny is capped. So unless you want to be a completionist, it does not appear you will have to run in spheres that area not good for your class/build.

If you do want to be a completionist, you may have to plan to do some of your least favorite destinies with classes who can at least use them, while you work towards heroic completionist as well.

If how I'm reading this is correct, then I think they are on the right road to a good system.

[SisAmethyst]

Very nice and looks promising!

...

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)

...

Somehow this"points in a Sphere" reminds me on the stars in the sphere background, like the stars in a nebula of galaxies... unfortunately we already have "stars" used for challenges.

[EllisDee37]

So we still have to spend time in Destinies which are ill fitting our character in order to both earn twist points and to earn points in a sphere which is not our character's main destiny for the purposes of true reincarnation. Sounds very unfun.

No matter how many times we explain it, the devs seem wholly unaware that running in off-destiny is actually unfun. A chore that we force ourselves to do.

They seem to have built almost all of epic play around running in an off destiny: Epic Feats from a sphere other than your primary one, Epic TR points from a sphere other than your primary one, and of course, fate points.

I like everything about this game, heck I even like Threnal, with one exception: Playing for even 1 minute outside of my chosen destiny. Much like my wizard would not like to be forced to use the barbarian enhancement trees, but instead prefers to use the wizard trees.

I truly do not think they are aware how unfun leveling off destinies is because the sum total of their personal experience with doing so involves talking to that trainer dude in the dojo.

[Qhualor]

if you hover over the destiny spheres and each destiny, there is a brief description. I think it would be a good idea for epic past lives to be associated with the core of the destiny. for example Fury of the Wild it says they defend nature by taking the fight to its enemies. they wield rage and destruction rolling over their foes like a deadly storm. the destiny allows characters to take a variety of personal defensive options to stand longer in the face of overwhelming odds also dealing huge amounts of damage. I would like to see a tie in to nature and dealing increased damage and/or increased survivability. I don't think these past lives should be over powering like the heroic versions were not intended to be, but with some imagination and creativity, I think the devs can build off these destiny descriptions. I just don't want to see a repeat of something like ranger past lives that give increased ranged damage which is more beneficial for ranged characters and less appealing for those that focus more on non ranged fighting. generalizing the past lives would attract more TRing.

edit: I understand that epic TR is not for specific destinies, I was just giving an example. primal destiny has a close association with nature.

[IronClan]

If you have amazing ideas for possible Epic Past Lives, now is a good time to try to squeak those ideas into our ears!

I have an "amazing idea"... Each Epic past life allows access to ONE TIER of ONE sphere's classes enhancement tree... up to 3 or maybe in the future 4.

1 primal past life lets you choose for example Frenzied Berserker tree tier 1
3 gets you up to tier 3...

Does not grant more AP's to spend, Can not choose more than one PrE tree from any class that is associated with that sphere. Does not grant core abilities (maybe look into the possibility of core grants up to core 3 or 4 in the future as an "uber epic completionist" carrot)

So your spending is still limited to AP spent in tree rules and you still have only 80 AP's to spread around.

Possible example result:
Pure bard with 3 Primal past lives (lets say he's THF and mostly warchanter) 20 AP's spent in Spell singer, 42 Spent in Warchanter for capstone, 18 AP's available to spend on Angry Arms, Mad munitions and maybe Supreme cleave.

Over powered? Not really you can't get tier 5's from it, and splashing 3 Barb gives the same possibility and is far easier to accomplish.

Massive new build possibilities... each tier must be earned with a 20-28 run soon to be 1-30 run... 80 AP limit keeps it from being overpowered. Gives pure classes a way to access one or more low tiers in other trees, and is inhernetly more useful for a pure class character, becuase they have more AP's they can free up because they have less trees. Gives multiclasses low level access to trees they couldn't otherwise get. but they are already spending most their AP's in their multiclass trees, so they would sacrifice points from one or more of their class trees to take a few in a class they don;t have... Self limiting but really expands build possibilities.

Of course if this is "too much too soon" you could make a much more grnidy version of it... Allow each past life to open up 2 AP's worth of possible spending in any single tree that is part of that sphere.

So one Primal past life = you can spend 2 points in Tempest tree
2 Primal = 4 points can be spent
8 primal = 16 points can be spent. cut this off where ever you feel you need to limit it. or leave it wide open throw caution to the wind and let someone grind out crazy past lives...

20 epic TR's in primal sphere = 40 points of access to a primal class tree.

Don't even really need to rule out tier 5's and cores, as the 80AP limit and AP spent in tree restrictions will make sure no one ever has more than about 4-ish trees they can effectively spend in.

[EllisDee37]

I could be reading this wrong, but V did say that you will continue to earn points, even if your destiny is capped. So unless you want to be a completionist, it does not appear you will have to run in spheres that area not good for your class/build.

Unless you want one of the past life feats from a different sphere.

[Arianka]

We'll discuss more Iconic Hero details later on.

Plz make so only WF can TR into bladeforged, Only humans into shader kai, only elves into morning lords, humans into purple dragon knights. Come up with other iconics that only dwraves, drow, and hobbits can TR in to.

[maddmatt70]

No matter how many times we explain it, the devs seem wholly unaware that running in off-destiny is actually unfun. A chore that we force ourselves to do.

They seem to have built almost all of epic play around running in an off destiny: Epic Feats from a sphere other than your primary one, Epic TR points from a sphere other than your primary one, and of course, fate points.

I like everything about this game, heck I even like Threnal, with one exception: Playing for even 1 minute outside of my chosen destiny. Much like my wizard would not like to be forced to use the barbarian enhancement trees, but instead prefers to use the wizard trees.

I truly do not think they are aware how unfun leveling off destinies is because the sum total of their personal experience with doing so involves talking to that trainer dude in the dojo.

It maybe just that - they made destinies too powerful and designed the game around less power. Nerf the destinies please devs recognize that your game is flawed. There are no lfms for the new content on epic elite - that is flawed. There are tons of lfms for Von 3 epic hard and if you nerf Von3 it will be another similiar quest on e hard wiz king for example. Really just make a better game. This epic reincarnation thing is going to be about people running old quests on epic hard in bad destinies. Admit your mistakes and do something about it.

[Braegan]

It maybe just that - they made destinies too powerful and designed the game around less power. Nerf the destinies please devs recognize that your game is flawed. There are no lfms for the new content on epic elite - that is flawed. There are tons of lfms for Von 3 epic hard and if you nerf Von3 it will be another similiar quest on e hard wiz king for example. Really just make a better game. This epic reincarnation thing is going to be about people running old quests on epic hard in bad destinies. Admit your mistakes and do something about it.

Well let's not confuse why there are not LFMs for the new content on EE as to why folks would rather run old epics for XP. The new quests are not that good at XP/Min and the Loot is nothing to write home about. It has nothing to do with the power of our characters, I could easily join/form groups for new EE Content. Truth is, it's not worth my time because there is nothing I really want from it (loot wise) and the XP sucks for the time invested.

You want folks to be a happy gerbil running the wheel, give us a better carrot. Because this XPac falls really short on delivering as to my repeat play of its quests for many reasons.

[Silverleafeon]

Nerf the destinies please devs recognize that your game is flawed.

Here is an idea, you reset all your epic destinies and don't use them, but let me have mine.

There are no lfms for the new content on epic elite - that is flawed.

You need a better server then.
We are tough cookies on Khyber.