Massive Nerf to ranger DwS positive energy

[Archangel_666]

I am decidedly...not happy.

My Pure Ranger Arcane Archer that I've been working on for the last three years was already suffering since U19. Her heals are lower than they were before even with a 90 Devotion item and points spent in the Heal Skill at every level.

I think I'm going to refrain from further comments on this subject for the moment because I'm likely to say something that would earn me a ban, and I like my mule account.

[thegreatneil]

I do like the change.
sure the devotion is more spread out, but its still there.

[Shorlong]

Anyone who knows me that I usually defend Turbine...this one though...this is terrible. I splashed Ranger on my Druid archer, not for the spell power, but for other reasons. I was excited, because maybe now he could even do some healing when need be. That 75 spell power saved us in some tight spots...

And now it's all gone, for no good reason? If I could get positive SP in Druid (you know, a class that does a lot of healing) I could understand it (unless we do get positive SP in druid and I'm just dumb, in which case, ignore everything I am saying...)

[SerPounce]

The real problem is that ranger (and paladin) healing spells are too weak. They should get cure light/moderate/serious/critical at spell lvls 1/2/3/4, AND the maximum caster level should be removed (or at least increased to 10/15/20/25). ranger/pally heal spells are just pitiful and expensive (when metad) compared to cocoon/heal/reconstruct (even with an uncapped cure crit they will be way, way behind divines and WF arcanes/arties).

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

There is a reason for this: it's over-powered on splash builds. I have it on a 12/6/2/ fighter for cocoon and yes, it's insanely stupid how wonderful it is.

But it's not OP on actual rangers. Mostly-Rangers sacrifice a bunch of DPS for their ability to heal. Forcing you to spend 30 AP in a worthless tree to get the devotion we now get is unacceptable.

If I need to go back to heal-scrolls there is no point being a ranger in the first place.

Cocoon on splash-builds is the problem, nerf that instead.

What about caccoon on pure builds with no devotion, no way to get metamagics? Nerf them all the way to China?

[Psiandron]

Not at all happy about the nerf. I could see some restructuring, as has been suggested above, but what has been done is just too much.

anyone know why the devs coded Handwraps differently than every other weapon in the game?

Funny you should ask.
A couple weeks ago a friend and I were talking about wraps and their problems and their status as both a weapon and a not-weapon, when it occurred to me that they are the only single item weapon that applies to both hands independently.

It's kind of stupid I know, but I really think that that's at the root of the handwraps issue. The goofy station they hold, i.e. a sinlge item weapon that applies to both hands independently and a weapon that does not actually fit in the weapon classification (ever see a set that actually lists all the normal weapon properties as any other weapon would have?).

Imo, the recent changes to equipment would seem to indicate Turbine is moving (has moved) away from equipment that is an object toward equipment which is a locus of pointers, which is the way it should have always been. However, as handwraps seem to be borked at the very core, I doubt that will help them out at all.

The reasons for the differences and independent classification are fairly obvious, but it's also pretty obvious that the implementation wasn't done correctly. It's probably not even truely fixable, but then that hasn't really stopped monks from becoming uber-powered and one of the dominant classes in the game. Besides, now that they can use weapons more freely, the handwraps issues slide in importance.

[FestusHood]

I am decidedly...not happy.

My Pure Ranger Arcane Archer that I've been working on for the last three years was already suffering since U19. Her heals are lower than they were before even with a 90 Devotion item and points spent in the Heal Skill at every level.

I think I'm going to refrain from further comments on this subject for the moment because I'm likely to say something that would earn me a ban, and I like my mule account.

I don't see how this is possible in the CURRENT system. You could only get 80 devotion before, now you can get 75, and anything from the heal skill is gravy.

[FestusHood]

The real problem is that ranger (and paladin) healing spells are too weak. They should get cure light/moderate/serious/critical at spell lvls 1/2/3/4, AND the maximum caster level should be removed (or at least increased to 10/15/20/25). ranger/pally heal spells are just pitiful and expensive (when metad) compared to cocoon/heal/reconstruct (even with an uncapped cure crit they will be way, way behind divines and WF arcanes/arties).

They are martial classes. They are supposed to be behind divines and casters. You can still heal yourself pretty well with a ranger, it just takes heal amp and metamagics.

[Teh_Troll]

Stupid change is stupid.

Don't forced us to invest in the lousy Deepwood tree.

[FestusHood]

First off, i like deepwood, so i don't think it's a completely junk tree.

That being said, i do believe any class that has the ability to cast cure spells should have some way to get devotion spellpower, regardless of which tree they choose to specialize in.

[toaftoaf]

"Before the enhancement update both Paladin and Ranger had the option for 80 devotion in their class enhancement trees with no requirements"

wrong. im sure there was something like a lv 10 ranger needed for last step on the devotion 100% sure im right i remember my rangerficer not being able to get full devotion when i changed my mix up abit

[Archangel_666]

I don't see how this is possible in the CURRENT system. You could only get 80 devotion before, now you can get 75, and anything from the heal skill is gravy.

Quite simple. Because due to the stupid Points Spent in Tree mechanic and the obscene cost of Healing Amp Enhancements I simply can no-longer justify spending all those points on Human Healing Amp. I took it to 20% and that hurt my build a lot. I used to have 30% pre U19.

Before U19, I used a combination of Healing Amp and Devotion to get the most out of my Ranger's curative Spells.

I was getting between 280 to 320 ish with a Maximized Cure Serious.

Now that same Maximized Cure Serious heals for 240-280.

[EllisDee37]

wrong. im sure there was something like a lv 10 ranger needed for last step on the devotion 100% sure im right i remember my rangerficer not being able to get full devotion when i changed my mix up abit

The "no prereqs" refers to no feat or enhancement prereqs. ANY level 10 ranger could get the full 80 devotion for 10 AP, whether they were tempest, arcane archer or deepwood sniper.

[Archangel_666]

Well, since the primary reason for being a pure Ranger (Self Healing) is getting ****ed, anyone got a good Monkcher build?

I've resisted doing it because I still hate that 10k Stars works for bows. There should have been other options for bow combat, but since there aren't, I'm too tired of all this **** to fight the system anymore.

[Dawnsfire]

ummm...shintao monks got a massive nerfs, ninja spy abilities are almost all bugged and hensin mystic "spells" do so little damage it pointless....oh yea clear favoritism to the pay class.

When you put it that way I would almost agree with you. However, it is a sad fact that if you want to twf melee or range you almost have to have monk levels. That kinda makes me think it is a bit OP. Unless of course you think one of those things is going to start driving off the splashers all of the sudden . . .

[eris2323]

It is funny how the devs realize there is a problem... WITH COCOON, WITH EPIC DESTINIES, WITH EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM HAVING IT, TWISTING IT, MUST HAVE IT, ITS SO AWESOME, OMG, GIMME COCOOOOOOOOOOOOOON... and yet decide to nerf the whole class of rangers.

Well done, devs. Well done.

How about nerfing the stupid epic destiny abilities instead of the whole heroic GAME?

[Dawnsfire]

It is funny how the devs realize there is a problem... WITH COCOON, WITH EPIC DESTINIES, WITH EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM HAVING IT, TWISTING IT, MUST HAVE IT, ITS SO AWESOME, OMG, GIMME COCOOOOOOOOOOOOOON... and yet decide to nerf the whole class of rangers.

Well done, devs. Well done.

How about nerfing the stupid epic destiny abilities instead of the whole heroic GAME?

People have to pay for EDs not for rangers. There may be some sort of connection in all this . . .

[eris2323]

People have to pay for EDs not for rangers. There may be some sort of connection in all this . . .

Sometimes I like to think the problem is the old 'devs aren't even PLAYING this game' problem.

Sometimes I like to think of conspiracies.

Either way, this sucks, and the devs made a huge mistake, yet again.

I'm not even playing epic game any more, and yet every ranger-ish character I have has lost out because COCOON was too powerful?

Thank you Turbine; nicely thought out, there. Destroy my characters simply because you can't be bothered to re-visit your epic destiny system and get rid of some overpowered garbage.

[Failedlegend]

When you put it that way I would almost agree with you. However, it is a sad fact that if you want to twf melee or range you almost have to have monk levels. That kinda makes me think it is a bit OP. Unless of course you think one of those things is going to start driving off the splashers all of the sudden . . .

No I doubt it will affect the splashers pre-u19 the main reason to splash Monk was for evasion + 2 feats, rogue being the alternative coming w/ trap skills and UMD so whether or not they take any of the enhancements is irrelevant but that doesnt really make rogue or monk OP almost every class has something nice that with the right build can be fit into a splash.

[dlsidhe]

Two Solutions:

1: Give Tempest and DwS 1 positive spellpower per point spent. Why not AA? Because of option 2, where AA has plentiful spell power anyway.

2: Treat Tempest and DWS like AA and let them treat their weapon as an implement, and give a few +10USP bonuses throughout the tree. Between the bow-as-implement and the USP bonuses, I'm quite content with my devotion power on my AA.