update 19 tank 8 monk 6 paladin 6 ranger

[maddmatt70]

It is a fact that tanks are not needed or efficient in the current content. This character is built with the raid coming next year in mind. The hope is that next year will have more tank friendly content. Here is to also hoping that features of this character will not be nerfed because the tank is the character I have remade the most in my time of playing compared to any other character type. Turbine has constantly changed the best tank builds repeatedly throughout DDO's history forcing players to change and alter their tanks many times. Sorry for the confusion, but actually this character will have to be an 8 ranger 6 paladin 6 monk in order to fit the below feats in.

This character dual wields shortswords (celestia)and is in earth stance and sacred stance at all times. It has superior saves, 100 intimidate + high hate + intolerant blow, over 1k hit points, 140 prr, 32% dodge, cocoon and endless lay on hands for self healing with high positive spell power and healing amp. Suggestions are welcome.

Halfling
8 ranger 6 monk 6 paladin
18 str = 6 str +8 str + 4 tome
43 dex = 18 dex (10) + 7 levels ups +4 tome + 10 item +3 insight dex +1 racial enhancement +2 ship -2 mountain
44 con = 17 con (13) +4 (tome) + 10 (item) +3 (insight) +4 (Mountain stance) +2 ship +3 destiny +1 exceptional
15 int = 10 int (2) +4 tome
30 wis = 13 wis (6) + 4 tome + 10 wisdom + 1 exceptional +2 ship
31 cha = 14 cha (6) + 10 charisma + 1 exceptional + 4 tome + 2 ship

Feats:
1 Toughness
3 Two Weapon Defense
6 Spring Attack
9 Empower Healing
12 Master of Forms
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 grand master of forms
Monk 1 dodge
Monk 2 mobility
Monk 6 Combat Expertise
21 epic toughness
24 bulwark of defense
26 epic skill focus intimidate
27 epic reflexes
28 epic mage armor


Physical Resistance: 134 = 25 (sacred defense) + 15 (grandmaster forms) + 10 (improved parry tempest) + 15 (iron skin) +5 (two weapon defense) +24 (ring from new quests) +15 (artifact) +10 (Heed no Pain passive) +15 (standing with stone)

Dodge: 32 dodge% = 7 (spring Attack) + 9 (enhancements) + 10 (item) + 6 (monk)

AC: 138 = 20% mountain stance + 10% combat expertise feat + 106 = 10 wisdom + 16 dexterity + 20 armor bonus (epic mage armor) + 8 shield + 8 protection + 9 natural armor + 4 parry insight + 6 Bulwark Aura +9 Hardened epic destiny + 5 sacred bonus unyielding sentinal +4 bulwark defense feat + 6 monk ac +1 halfling ac

Hit Points:
1083 = 20 (Heroic) + 10 (GH Favor) + 172 (base) + 80 (epic levels) + 70 (toughness feats) +50 gfl + 20 vitality +448 (con) +19 sacred defender +50 unyielding + 50 vigor + 15 standing with stone +50 white dragon armor set

Skill: Intimidate
98 = 23 Ranks + 5 enhancement + 20 competence +2 good luck +2 coin lord favor +10 charisma +5 unyielding +3 skill tome +6 exceptional cha skills +4 gh +8 epic skills levels +5 epic skill focus intimidate +6 draconic presence +3 exemplar -4 intimidate halfling
Intolerant Blow
Hate : 405% = 100% + 125 sacred +70 insight +100 divine righteousness +10% Exemplar

Healing Amp: 1.3 (30% item) * 1.2 (20% item) * 1.15 (shintao core 3) * 1.10(2 past lifes) * 1.10 (ship) * 1.10 (vigor stance)
Positive Spell Power: 298 = 114 devotion item? + 105 spell power (30 shintao+ 60 deepwood sniper + 19 sacred defender) + 75 empower healing.
Cocoon and regenerating lay on hands.

Fortification: 146%

Can not Fail Reflex on 1.
Saves: F: 82 = 17 (base) + 4 epic levels + 17 (con) + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 brace for impact
Saves R: 83 = 14 base + 4 epic levels + 16 (dex) + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 epic reflexes feat +3 improved reaction +2 brace for impact
Saves W: 69 = 11 base +4 epic levels + 10 wis + 10 resistance bonus + 3 Halflings saves and enhance +4 gh +4 insight +2 good luck + 10 charisma +3 saves for resilient defense +4 resistance aura +2 bulwark defense +2 brace for impact

Pally Defender
1 Holy Bastion
1 Divine Righteousness
1 Sacred Defense
3 Durable Defense
3 Inciting Defense
3 Resilient Defense
3 Bulwark Aura
3 Resistance Aura
-----
18

Halfling:
2: Halfling Saves
2: halfling dex.
3: Acrobatic
3: Nimble Reactions +3 dodge cap and max dex bonus
3: Improved Dodge +3 dodge

----
13

Ninja spy
1 ninja training
1 faster sneaking
3 acrobatic
3 agility
1 Ninja Training
1 stealthy
1 Shadow Veil
---
11

Tempest
1 Shield of whirling Steel
1 Tempest
1 Graceful Death
3 Improved Reaction
6 Improved Parry
3 Improved Dodge
3 Improved Mobility
----
18


Shintao
1 Bastion of Purity
1 Protection of Tainted Creatures
1 Iron Hand
3 Exemplar
1 Reed in the Wind
2 Fists of Iron
6 Iron Skin
----
15

Deepwood Sniper
1 Far shot
3 increased empathy
1 versatile empathy
----
5

Epic Destiny
4 Brace for Impact
6 Con +3
3 Endless Lay on Hands
3 Block Energy
3 Hardened
2 Intolerant Blows
2 Purify Weapons
1 Endless Turning

Twists
Cacoon
Draconic Presence
Standing With Stone

Gear:
Goggles: charisma +10 of Resistance +10 (green slot: +9 natural armor)
Helmet:: White Dragon +3 insight constitution (green slot: vitality +20)
Trinket: Prowress +3 insight dexterity
Armor: White Dragon Robe (blue slot: good luck)
Cloak: shroud triple air +6 charisma skills +300 spell points.
Bracer: parry VII and +20% healing amp
Gloves: Epic Gloves of Claw
Belt: +10 dexterity and +50 greater false life
Ring 1: Guardians ring +8 strength +24 sheltering yellow slot (imperial blood)
Ring 2: intimidate +20 of wisdom +10:
Boots: +10 con of dodge 10%
Celestia x2 one with devotion 114 slotted in red slot.

[kuro_zero]

1) EDIT: Ninja spy should still stay centered with celestia. - was thinking of the DEX to hit/dmg ability.

2) Fully upgraded celestia get a green slot, not red since slotting a dmg type (alighnment or metal type) would break its innate DR breaking properties. Thus you can not slot spellpower gem into one.

3) Deft Strikes doesn't appear to work with tempest. Tested with PDK kensai centered with khopeshes and 6 rgr and was not getting 100% off hand with tempest core 2 and deft strikes. WAI or bug dunno - submitted a bug report anyway.

[maddmatt70]

1) EDIT: Ninja spy should still stay centered with celestia. - was thinking of the DEX to hit/dmg ability.

2) Fully upgraded celestia get a green slot, not red since slotting a dmg type (alighnment or metal type) would break its innate DR breaking properties. Thus you can not slot spellpower gem into one.

3) Deft Strikes doesn't appear to work with tempest. Tested with PDK kensai centered with khopeshes and 6 rgr and was not getting 100% off hand with tempest core 2 and deft strikes. WAI or bug dunno - submitted a bug report anyway.

I quite probably will have to drop deft strikes for something else - I had a feeling that would not work - tempest core 3 costs 1 pt and deft costs 6 so core 3 wins. The 114 positive spell power will probably have to wait for another short sword I am surprised that the new short sword elemental fury does not have a red slot - that hardly makes sense. I could have gone with celestia and elemental fury perhaps.

Made several other errors in here. Tanks are so complex now - you have a zillion things to keep track of.

[Krelar]

46 dex (10) + 7 levels ups +4 tome + 3 insight + 10 item +3 insight dex +1 racial enhancement +2 ship -2 mountain

This only adds up to 38 and you have insight listed twice.

[kuro_zero]

Actually looking closer at your build, yes my original point about ninja spy applies. Celestia has no pierce/slash damage component and therefore does not work with ninja spy's ability to add DEX to-hit and DMG with it.

Possible alternative is taking weapon finesse and getting Improved Weapon Finesse in one of the ranger trees (DWS I think).

[maddmatt70]

Actually looking closer at your build, yes my original point about ninja spy applies. Celestia has no pierce/slash damage component and therefore does not work with ninja spy's ability to add DEX to-hit and DMG with it.

Possible alternative is taking weapon finesse and getting Improved Weapon Finesse in one of the ranger trees (DWS I think).

This build has graceful death from the tempest tree which provides would provide dex to damage. I will probably have to swap out two weapon defense for weapon finesse which would put the prr at 135 which is worth it because the celestia overcomes the dr on dracoliches..

[Carpone]

Physical Resistance: 140 = 25 (sacred defense) + 15 (grandmaster forms) + 15 (improved parry tempest) + 15 (iron skin) +5 (two weapon defense) +26 (ring from new quests) +14 (artifact) +10 (Heed no Pain passive) +15 (standing with stone)

Guardian's Ring is 24 PRR (not 26). Improved Parry is 10 PRR (not 15). Planar Conflux is 15 PRR (not 14).

AC: 126

What does this translate to in terms of epic elite mobs missing you? I'm trying to understand where the tipping point is for AC in Shadowfell EE content.

Hit Points: 70 (toughness feats)

Toughness + Epic Toughness is 80 HP (not 70).

Healing Amp: 1.3 (30% item) * 1.2 (20% item) * 1.15 (shintao core 3) * 1.10(2 past lifes) * 1.05 (ship) * 1.10 (vigor stance)

Ship is 10% healing amp.

Ninja spy
1 ninja training
1 faster sneaking
3 acrobatic
3 agility
---
8

It deserves 3 more points for Shadow Veil. 25% Incorporeality is amazing survivability.

Gear:
Goggles: charisma +10 of Resistance +10 (color slot: imperial blood)
Belt: +10 dexterity and +45 greater false life
Ring 1: Guardians ring +8 strength +24 sheltering green slot (+9 natural armor)
Celestia x2 one with devotion 114 slotted in red slot.

From what I've seen so far, PREFIX 10 of SUFFIX 10 items must be ML28 wondrous crafting which cannot have a slot. If you can confirm seeing a 10 of 10 item with a slot, I'd love to know.

10 DEX of 50 HP is possible for the belt.

The ring has a yellow slot, not green.

There's no easy solution for slotting Devotion/Potency. You'd have to gear around Halcyon Boots for 80 Potency.

It's a pretty cool build, nice job.

[maddmatt70]

Guardian's Ring is 24 PRR (not 26). Improved Parry is 10 PRR (not 15). Planar Conflux is 15 PRR (not 14).


What does this translate to in terms of epic elite mobs missing you? I'm trying to understand where the tipping point is for AC in Shadowfell EE content.


Toughness + Epic Toughness is 80 HP (not 70).


Ship is 10% healing amp.


It deserves 3 more points for Shadow Veil. 25% Incorporeality is amazing survivability.


From what I've seen so far, PREFIX 10 of SUFFIX 10 items must be ML28 wondrous crafting which cannot have a slot. If you can confirm seeing a 10 of 10 item with a slot, I'd love to know.

10 DEX of 50 HP is possible for the belt.

The ring has a yellow slot, not green.

There's no easy solution for slotting Devotion/Potency. You'd have to gear around Halcyon Boots for 80 Potency.

It's a pretty cool build, nice job.

Thanks for the comments and yeah I made a gadzillion errors although hopefully people got the overall concept. Builds, especially tank builds have gotten so complicated with so many details. My old guildie Darkstaar when he was playing was very good at capturing all the details - too bad he is not playing.

I have seen a +10 stat and +10% dodge I think although I would have to verify, but otherwise gear needs tweaking. I am pretty sure I have a +10 charisma and +10 resistance item. I agree with the shadow veil. I am going to have to figure out a way to fit that in the two things I noticed is a: no incorpreality/blur and b: fitting in the healing power someway.

Edit: if I switch perfect two weapon fighting out and swap in epic mage armor I hit a 138 ac. hmm that probably would be a 30% to hit miss on ee or something like that. I have to rearrange the gear and test the dodge, but what have you will get to it. This character is currently 18 but will get to him in a week or two.

[Teh_Troll]

Edit: if I switch perfect two weapon fighting out and swap in epic mage armor I hit a 138 ac. hmm that probably would be a 30% to hit miss on ee or something like that. .

No way in hell that's a 30% miss unless the to-hits of the mobs drop significantly from GH.

[maddmatt70]

No way in hell that's a 30% miss unless the to-hits of the mobs drop significantly from GH.

I disagree with yeah here. I need to test, but I do think a 138 ac is about a 30% miss chance. One thing that should be pointed out about AC is I think that dodge and incorpeality get checked first and ac is the third progression check.
What I mean is mob attacks:
1. missed due to incorpreality.
2. if mob does not miss due to incorpeality it then could miss due to dodge.
3. if mob does not miss due to dodge or incorpeality it then could miss due to ac.
4. mob hits.

I have not tested the above either but it can be tested by removing dodge and incorpeality gear and then wearing them and taking data measures.

[Therigar]

I think that dodge and incorpeality get checked first and ac is the third progression check.

First, thanks for previous answers.

Second, the order that hit/miss gets checked should have no impact on whether the final result is a hit or a miss. I'm pretty sure that mathematically it does not matter.

Just a simple example. Say 50% miss due to AC, 20% due to concealment, 25% due to dodge comparing 100 attacks.

100*(1-.5)=50*(1-.2)=40*(1-.25)=30 (AC check first, then concealment, then dodge).

100*(1-.25)=75*(1-.5)=37.5*(1-.2)=30 (dodge check first, then AC, then concealment).

As long as the attack measures a hit it gets checked against whatever is next in queue but it doesn't matter what the order is in the queue.

Lastly, I'm not sure that non-stacking dodge is an error. There are many things in DDO that do stack and many that do not. However, I haven't checked it closely so it could be that this is worry over nothing at all. It just seemed to me from previous characters when playing around on Lamannia that the different improved dodges did not stack.

[rimble]

and b: fitting in the healing power someway.

Epic Mask of Comedy was pretty strong pre-U19...haven't checked mine after (I'm on a life for which it doesn't matter).

[Therigar]

A couple of questions.

1) Why 8 monk and not 8 paladin? What are you getting from the extra monk levels? It looks like Shadow Veil which is pretty useful I'll admit. But, after that I can't see what it is you are getting.

2) Why DEX based? Losing the 7 stat increases costs 3 AC and 3 reflex save. Dropping 2 build points in DEX costs another 1 in each. Doing so lets you go STR focused instead and allows possible inclusion of Power Attack. Does the character really need the 4 AC?

I realize that this build is focused on epic content and anticipates a new raid. On a somewhat similar build I was only able to raise maximum dodge to 31%. I believe Willan is correct that different sources of improved dodge do not stack.

[maddmatt70]

A couple of questions.

1) Why 8 monk and not 8 paladin? What are you getting from the extra monk levels? It looks like Shadow Veil which is pretty useful I'll admit. But, after that I can't see what it is you are getting.

Well I am not sure what you get from 8 paladin. 8 monk does give +2 to all saves which is nice for the will save, but I believe I might have to reduce this character's save gear in order to fit in some of the above gear regardless my suspicions for the new raid is saves potentially in the low 80s might be the threshold for it. Another nice feature of having super saves is if I need to chug silver flame pots having a higher save is advantageous because you can still succeed on the saves despite teh stats being lowered. I did this in ee gianthold tor on the blue dragon fight on a previous build. I could keep myself up while tanking the blue dragon in the electrical fields with silver flame pots.

2) Why DEX based? Losing the 7 stat increases costs 3 AC and 3 reflex save. Dropping 2 build points in DEX costs another 1 in each. Doing so lets you go STR focused instead and allows possible inclusion of Power Attack. Does the character really need the 4 AC?

Power attack is another feat that I would have to spend which adds only a little dps and would prevent me from having combat expertise equipped. See above for reflex saves. To be honest I do not see much advantage to strength based on a tank build other then if the tank had a high tactics score for sunder and stunning blow or for qualitfying for momentum swing/lay waste on S& B build (would need power attack/cleave/great cleave for that). On twf or unarmed tank should always go dex basd.

I realize that this build is focused on epic content and anticipates a new raid. On a somewhat similar build I was only able to raise maximum dodge to 31%. I believe Willan is correct that different sources of improved dodge do not stack.

Well it is a bug. It is no different then if Human healing amp did not stack with the shintao or the pally amp. I do wonder though about the text in the halfling dodge cap (it almost implies only for armor or something like that).

[jjflanigan]

I'm not seeing how your feat progression is possible.

In order to get Two Weapon Defense at 3, you have to have 2 levels of ranger taken
In order to get Spring Attack at 6, you had to have taken at least 2 of your monk levels already for Dodge + mobility
In order to get Empower Healing at 9, you have to have taken at least 4 of your paladin levels

All is fine to that point, but then to take master of forms at 12, you need to have 6 monk levels and for GTWF at 15 you need 6 ranger levels.

With your feat progression you need to have 6 monk levels, 6 ranger levels and 4 paladin levels (16 total) by the time you hit 15

Not sure if you would drop empower healing or how you'd need to shift your feats around to fit in all of the ones you want.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding something though, I'm not the greatest at builds.

-JJ

[Therigar]

I'm not seeing how your feat progression is possible.

Level progression can be ranger, ranger, monk, monk. Now take paladin, paladin, paladin, paladin. You are L8 with the following character 2 ranger/2 monk/4 paladin. So, it is easy to get the progression in.

Master and Grandmaster only require a single monk level. They are otherwise based on total character level. Again, no problem. To get in the 6 ranger levels at L15 becomes a trivial effort.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding something though, I'm not the greatest at builds.

You were.

[jjflanigan]

Level progression can be ranger, ranger, monk, monk. Now take paladin, paladin, paladin, paladin. You are L8 with the following character 2 ranger/2 monk/4 paladin. So, it is easy to get the progression in.

Master and Grandmaster only require a single monk level. They are otherwise based on total character level. Again, no problem. To get in the 6 ranger levels at L15 becomes a trivial effort.



You were.

That would be true, except that in order to take Master Stances, you have to already have Adept Stances -- and you only get that for free with 6 monk levels. That leads us back to needing 16 total levels by level 15, doesn't it?

-JJ

[HolyHamGrenade]

That would be true, except that in order to take Master Stances, you have to already have Adept Stances -- and you only get that for free with 6 monk levels. That leads us back to needing 16 total levels by level 15, doesn't it?

-JJ

The only way I've been able to fit in the feats properly was to go 8 levels of ranger rather than monk.

Should look something like this, I think:

Ranger - Dodge
Monk - Mobility
Ranger - Two Weapon Defense
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger - Spring Attack
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger - Empower Heal
Monk - Toughness (Could swap a Pally level here to have a chance to get more points into Intim)
Monk
Monk - Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Should get to +11 BAB by now to meet the BAB requirement)
Monk
Monk - Combat Expertise
Paladin - Master of Forms
Paladin
Paladin
Paladin - Grandmaster of Forms
Paladin
Paladin

[maddmatt70]

The only way I've been able to fit in the feats properly was to go 8 levels of ranger rather than monk.

Should look something like this, I think:

Ranger - Dodge
Monk - Mobility
Ranger - Two Weapon Defense
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger - Spring Attack
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger - Empower Heal
Monk - Toughness (Could swap a Pally level here to have a chance to get more points into Intim)
Monk
Monk - Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Should get to +11 BAB by now to meet the BAB requirement)
Monk
Monk - Combat Expertise
Paladin - Master of Forms
Paladin
Paladin
Paladin - Grandmaster of Forms
Paladin
Paladin

Yeah I think you got me. Ranger level 4 does not get cure light wounds but rather level 8 ranger so this character would have to go 8 ranger 6 paladin 6 monk which means a little less will save unfortunately.

[maddmatt70]

I'm not seeing how your feat progression is possible.

In order to get Two Weapon Defense at 3, you have to have 2 levels of ranger taken
In order to get Spring Attack at 6, you had to have taken at least 2 of your monk levels already for Dodge + mobility
In order to get Empower Healing at 9, you have to have taken at least 4 of your paladin levels

All is fine to that point, but then to take master of forms at 12, you need to have 6 monk levels and for GTWF at 15 you need 6 ranger levels.

With your feat progression you need to have 6 monk levels, 6 ranger levels and 4 paladin levels (16 total) by the time you hit 15

Not sure if you would drop empower healing or how you'd need to shift your feats around to fit in all of the ones you want.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding something though, I'm not the greatest at builds.

-JJ

Rangers and monk levels first and pally levels last basically. Ranger level 4 also qualifies for empower healing.
Level 1 ranger
Level 2 paladin (for intimidate)
Level 3 ranger
Level 4 monk
Level 5 monk
Level 6 Ranger
Level 7 Monk
Level 8 Ranger
Level 9 Monk
Level 10 Monk
Level 11 Monk
Level 12 Ranger
Level 13 Paladin
Level 14 Ranger
Level 15 Paladin
Level 16 Monk
Level 17 Paladin
Level 18 Paladin
Level 19 Monk
Level 20 Paladin