Can divines PLEASE get better offensive spells?

[knightgf]

Unfortunately, it seems divine casters (Clerics and FvS., respectively) are getting the shaft when it comes to offensive spells. Sure, they got some great spells to use, like destruction, implosion, blade barrier, and maybe a few others at high levels, but what about low levels? There's little; Searing light is good vs. undead, as is Deific Vengeance, but otherwise, there's not much. Therefore, here are a few ideas I propose in order to make divines a bit more powerful, especially at lower levels:

• Change poison to deal 1d8 poison damage per caster level in addition to con damage, both of which can also be enhanced by spell power. The reason I suggest 1d8 is that quite a few monsters can be resistant or immune to poison damage.
• Change fire storm so it works like Acid Rain but dealing fire damage instead of acid. This will make it a unique spell with more value.
• Add a few new ways by which blade barrier can be cast. For example, you could create a wall of blades, a X of blades, or a mobile blade barrier that can move randomly or follow an enemy, similar to the blade barriers Queen Liliat casts in Against the Demon Queen.
• Uncap some of the maximum caster levels on spells. This can be done by either implementing a Tier 5 ability, working directly with the spells to remove the caps, or both. In particular, light spells and all the alignment spells at level 4 should have some method of having no maximum caster level.
• Add new spells. I suppose I can list a few brief examples:
  
  • Shatter, 2nd level cleric/fvs spell. Costs 8 SP, and deals 1d3+3 sonic damage per caster level vs. constructs only. A successful fortitude save halves the damage, immobile or thinkless constructs receive no saving throw.
  • Evil purge, 3rd level cleric/fvs spell. A wave of pure good energy centered on you bursts forth with the radius of a cure spell. All evil monsters caught in its blast are dealt 1d3+3 good damage per caster level. Neutral and good monsters take no damage. A successful will save halves the damage. Additionally, if a target fails a will save, it must make a fortitude save or be dazed until struck.
  • Tangent light, 3rd level cleric/fvs spell: A erratic vortex of light shoots from you, dealing 1d2+1 light damage and 1d2+1 untyped damage per 2 caster levels to enemies that are in reach of it. A successful reflex save halves the damage and prevents them from being flown back. Additionally, the vortex moves in a erratic direction, subjecting enemies to additional hits. The vortex dissipates after 30 seconds, if it strikes a wall or falls more than 10 ft. Enemies killed by the vortex have a 25% chance of spawning another vortex.

Thoughts?

[EnziteBob]

Since the x-pack I have no problems with my cleric's offensive spells. I'm able for the most part go in nuke things and can solo about anything. Now if they made it easier to DC cast that might help a bit. I would not mind if they added more spells from pnp spell lists (I would love to have all the wall spells).
Spells I would like to see added: (If you do not know the spells here they are http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm)
Storm of Vengeance
Earthquake
Dictum
Disrupting Weapon
Death Knell

[CE2JRH123]

I'm pretty pleased with my divine line up. It's a little light 5-10 or so when Soundburst is meh, but those are levels where meleeing with something with a good set of bonus damage dice is fine anyways.

At level 11 I've suddenly got divine punishment, slay living, bladebarrier, cometfall, plus by then I've probably got a couple of the good damage/mana ratio cleric laser SLA's from the Divine Disciple tree...

I think we're doing pretty good at the moment.

[psykopeta]

Unfortunately, it seems divine casters (Clerics and FvS., respectively) are getting the shaft when it comes to offensive spells. Sure, they got some great spells to use, like destruction, implosion, blade barrier, and maybe a few others at high levels, but what about low levels? There's little; Searing light is good vs. undead, as is Deific Vengeance, but otherwise, there's not much. Therefore, here are a few ideas I propose in order to make divines a bit more powerful, especially at lower levels:

• Change poison to deal 1d8 poison damage per caster level in addition to con damage, both of which can also be enhanced by spell power. The reason I suggest 1d8 is that quite a few monsters can be resistant or immune to poison damage.
• Change fire storm so it works like Acid Rain but dealing fire damage instead of acid. This will make it a unique spell with more value.
• Add a few new ways by which blade barrier can be cast. For example, you could create a wall of blades, a X of blades, or a mobile blade barrier that can move randomly or follow an enemy, similar to the blade barriers Queen Liliat casts in Against the Demon Queen.
• Uncap some of the maximum caster levels on spells. This can be done by either implementing a Tier 5 ability, working directly with the spells to remove the caps, or both. In particular, light spells and all the alignment spells at level 4 should have some method of having no maximum caster level.
• Add new spells. I suppose I can list a few brief examples:
  
  • Shatter, 2nd level cleric/fvs spell. Costs 8 SP, and deals 1d3+3 sonic damage per caster level vs. constructs only. A successful fortitude save halves the damage, immobile or thinkless constructs receive no saving throw.
  • Evil purge, 3rd level cleric/fvs spell. A wave of pure good energy centered on you bursts forth with the radius of a cure spell. All evil monsters caught in its blast are dealt 1d3+3 good damage per caster level. Neutral and good monsters take no damage. A successful will save halves the damage. Additionally, if a target fails a will save, it must make a fortitude save or be dazed until struck.
  • Tangent light, 3rd level cleric/fvs spell: A erratic vortex of light shoots from you, dealing 1d2+1 light damage and 1d2+1 untyped damage per 2 caster levels to enemies that are in reach of it. A successful reflex save halves the damage and prevents them from being flown back. Additionally, the vortex moves in a erratic direction, subjecting enemies to additional hits. The vortex dissipates after 30 seconds, if it strikes a wall or falls more than 10 ft. Enemies killed by the vortex have a 25% chance of spawning another vortex.

Thoughts?

more elemental variety = more troubles with enhancements, stick to light spells and will notice that...nothing at low lvl has resist/immunity to light? also soundburst is an amazing cc, if wanna play like a sorc, build as a sorc, in fact u're more like a pm with evocation spells(like they do til they hit fod, pk, pwk, wail)

now its easier to rock as divine, before u were tied to wait til dp for some viability against bosses, now u aren't

[eachna_gislin]

I'm very pleased with the cleric spells on the table now that the Divine Disciple prestige exists. However, I would still like to see Domains, and I think this suggestion could tie in to that.

Also, just because clerics have more spells than they used to doesn't mean Favored Souls enjoy the same benefits.

I'd like to see Domains.

And I'd like the base spell book of clerics expanded to provide a wider range of spells from which to choose. The devs have said they want to give us more hard choices. A better spell selection would be one way to do that. Right now it's very easy to fill more than half my cleric's spell slots with buff spells.

Also, my clerics are very 'set and forget' about their spells. The same spells at the same level on all builds (with one or two exceptions). Wizards are also designed to fill many roles and as I've been levelling up my first wizard I'm constantly changing spells in taverns and shrines. I do enjoy the flexibility of my cleric (don't get me wrong) but there's much less need to switch spells around. I basically have an undead spellbook and a not undead spell book.

Adding two spells per level (offensive or not) could really make for some hard choices while also making divines more flexible. I'd like to see three new spells each at level 8 and 9. In the SRD, clerics get eleven level 9 spells to choose from, in DDO we get five, the same number as our spell slots. One of the arguments for splashing two to three levels of another class is that the cleric's spell book sucks at high levels.

Just checking over the SRD..."Gate" could be implemented as a renamed Greater Teleport...or be closer to the original spell and have two options...Gate in (create a new summon creature list for it) and Gate Out (greater teleport). Soul Bind would be Trap the Soul.

In the lower levels, Water Walk could work like the dark monkish water walking, and Air Walk could be like the monkish Abundant Step. Both those spells could significantly change the utility of clerics without them doing an additional point of damage.

I know it won't happen but it never hurts to put it out there as a request.

[phalaeo2]

I think they're going in the right direction. The SLAs and spells available to be added to your spell book via enhancements is a great way forward. There still needs work to be done. Yes, it's better now, but don't stop here! More diversity! Force us to make choices! Right now, there are a standard few spells that are the must haves. Most Clerics who focus on DC casting choose Evocation, and the rest Necromancy.... it would be awesome if we had our spellbook expanded.

We'll still heal! We promise!

[mishraif]

I'd like to do some spell damage with bard also but the best spell is 60 damage like that will even touch anything at lv 28. Soundburst is a common spell with fvs and cleric that seems pointless in long run. It doesn't get stronger as you level which makes it obsolete fast.

[eachna_gislin]

I think they're going in the right direction. The SLAs and spells available to be added to your spell book via enhancements is a great way forward. There still needs work to be done. Yes, it's better now, but don't stop here! More diversity! Force us to make choices! Right now, there are a standard few spells that are the must haves. Most Clerics who focus on DC casting choose Evocation, and the rest Necromancy.... it would be awesome if we had our spellbook expanded.

We'll still heal! We promise!

At a minimum, Conjuration should be a viable school (given that the cleric past life feat gives a conjuration boost). Summons are meh. A good way to make conjuration viable is to tack on some spells that do damage (wizzy acid spells?) or provide some utility (ex: summon an invisible stalker that does 'something' that doesn't deal damage). Or, beef up the existing summon spells so they're at least competitive with single-target damage dealing spells of the same level.

If you want to make us pay for it, let the augment summon feat act as a sort of divine summon 'spellpower' and have it increase the damage of summons beyond a couple CR levels. If Conjuration is the strength of clerics (the same way Evocation is the strength of sorcerers) give us a reason to call forth our summons.

I'd also like to see harder choices between light, negative, and force/untyped, and fire spellpower in the DD tree. Right now, it's kind of a no brainer to skip over fire spellpower. Give us a Fire domain and say...burning hands, wall of fire, and fire shield (all in the Fire spell list) along with our existing Flame Strike and Fire Storm and now you have a reason to consider fire spell power.

As far as ways to give us the Domain spells, give us extra feats in the same way you've made the gods feat-based. Then the only issue is whether we're allowed to swap Domains with Fred.