Hassan's Assassin

[Stoner81]

Thanks for including my build in your OP I really need to get my bum in gear and get it updated with a lot of the new stuff it's just finding the time.

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

Thanks for including my build in your OP I really need to get my bum in gear and get it updated with a lot of the new stuff it's just finding the time.

Thanks for posting a good first life assassin build. How to convert to a first life is always a common question, so it's nice to have a resource to point people towards.

[Stoner81]

Well it's not strictly first life since it's based on 32pt build and includes 34pt and 36pt versions. I could probably make it for a 28pt build though so it would be new player friendly.

Stoner81.

[LotM]

I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?

[Saekee]

I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?

The weapon finesse feat on a rogue with this build (second assassin core) gets Dex-to-damage with all light weapons. He recommended it for making triple positive greensteel light maces for beating on undead skellies, in particularl The Truthful One.

If you do not want to use a feat just for this purpose, here is a suggestion I posted earlier in the thread:
I have been wondering about the use of Weapon Finesse--if it is just for use with undead and maces, how about Level 16 tier 3 Mournlode maces with Weapon Finesse crafted on them? They will be vastly inferior damage to the Greensteel (instead offering +5 Enhancement Bonus, Righteous, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, craftable) but are 1) way easier to make and 2) save a feat. Since you already crafted the greensteel, this might not make sense. It may be an option for someone implementing your build.

[CThruTheEgo]

I know you mentioned weapon finesse was to use with light hammers somewhere, but is that to-hit relevant, given your comments on to-hit in the Monte Cristo thread?

Yep, Saekee summed it up perfectly. Only thing I can add is that it's not just for the Truthful One anymore. The two new raids have a lot of undead, and the raid boss of one is also an undead dragon.

[Saekee]

Yep, Saekee summed it up perfectly. Only thing I can add is that it's not just for the Truthful One anymore. The two new raids have a lot of undead, and the raid boss of one is also an undead dragon.

Looks like the new Harper tree will save this feat, since Int to damage can be done with any 'melee or missile weapon.'

[CThruTheEgo]

Looks like the new Harper tree will save this feat, since Int to damage can be done with any 'melee or missile weapon.'

Yeah the harper tree looks like it will have a lot to offer an assassin. I already know how I'd like to spend my AP, but I'll wait until it goes live before making any changes to the OP, since the tree isn't set in stone yet. I'll probably move some feats around (taking dodge earlier) so that I can take overwhelming crit instead of weapon finesse.

[hi_sa1nt]

Love your swash build. TR'd into it from a fighter build.

Was a rogue for the longest time... but seeing how most of the endgame stuff is undead now... are assassin rogues worth the time and effort to get the required gear, now?

Can't assassinate any of the undead mobs... and the fleshies are red named anyway.

I still have one more rogue life to go to get my x3 sneak attack... but I'm thinking a rogue stick splash build might be the way to go for endgame content.

[CThruTheEgo]

Love your swash build. TR'd into it from a fighter build.

Was a rogue for the longest time... but seeing how most of the endgame stuff is undead now... are assassin rogues worth the time and effort to get the required gear, now?

Can't assassinate any of the undead mobs... and the fleshies are red named anyway.

I still have one more rogue life to go to get my x3 sneak attack... but I'm thinking a rogue stick splash build might be the way to go for endgame content.

Are there classes/builds which are more effective against undead? Certainly.

Are assassins gimp or useless against undead? Absolutely not.

The heavy investment in fort bypass is often overlooked in the rogue vs undead debate. Higher fort bypass means you still get a lot of sneak attack damage, as well as crits, against undead. Most other melee builds do not invest as heavily in fort bypass.

Before we got dex to damage, you had to go str based or you were gimp against undead. Dex to damage allowed assassins to ignore str. A build like Hassan's Assassin, emphasizing DC, dps, and survivability was not possible before dex to damage and I had been planning this build ever since it was rumored that we might be getting dex to damage. Soon we will get int to damage, which will be a huge dps boost for an int based assassin.

With more fort bypass available, as well as the ability to apply different stats to damage, assassins facing undead have only gotten better over time. Once we get int to damage, this won't even be an argument anymore since a single stat will be used for both DC and dps.

The only thing holding assassins back now is the stupid automatic agro bug. Worst mechanic ever.

[Behoram]

Any1 know when the harper tree will be on store? I've a toon at lvl 20 that i want to reincarnate in a pure rogue, but i'm very undecided about the build to follow. So, if it is almost for harper, i'll wait for it and for new future rogue builds.

[CThruTheEgo]

Any1 know when the harper tree will be on store? I've a toon at lvl 20 that i want to reincarnate in a pure rogue, but i'm very undecided about the build to follow. So, if it is almost for harper, i'll wait for it and for new future rogue builds.

I believe the harper tree is being released with epic Necropolis, but I'm not positive about that.

You don't need to wait for harper to come out. The only thing the harper tree will change for most assassin builds is the enhancements, and probably not how they are spent in the assassin tree. I've already mentioned that I'll be dropping weapon finesse and take overwhelming crit instead. That will require moving a few feats around, but not a big deal. Starting stats won't change since I still want 21 in both dex and con for improved sneak attack and epic toughness. I plan to divert most of my AP from acrobat and mechanic into the harper tree, but since the AP costs for harper are not finalized yet, it's too soon to plan that out completely. So harper won't change much that can't be easily changed.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

with Harper Tree...


/drool

[Zachski]

Minor problem: You can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 because you need at least 1 BAB to take it.

I moved Toughness to that level, though I'm running an altered 32 build version. All I did was lower con.

[CThruTheEgo]

with Harper Tree...


/drool

Yup. Catch the update on Monday.

Minor problem: You can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 because you need at least 1 BAB to take it.

I moved Toughness to that level, though I'm running an altered 32 build version. All I did was lower con.

Good catch, but this won't matter come Monday since weapon finesse won't be needed at all thanks to harper's know the angles enhancement.

[Hobgoblin]

have looked at this thread a lot - what do you think of shadar kai for this?

hob

[CThruTheEgo]

have looked at this thread a lot - what do you think of shadar kai for this?

hob

Shadar kai is certainly an option, but you won't have many points to spend on the racial tree, especially after tomorrow when harper is added. Without the racial enhanements, you're not really taking full advantage of the race. That's essentially the same problem I see with halfling.

I'll definitely be purchasing harper tomorrow and will then know for sure exactly what is available in the tree and how much it will cost. But I wouldn't expect to have much to spend in the racial tree.

[CThruTheEgo]

Gear and feats updated. I'll update enhancements later today after I see what harper looks like on live. I'll also wait to update all the final calculations until I'm sure that the gear has gone live as it was posted on Lammania.

I'm open to feedback on gear, enhancements, feats, or any other changes.

[CThruTheEgo]

Enhancements updated. I dropped everything from mechanic and most of acrobat. To make up for the loss of wand and scroll mastery, I picked up the first tier of heal amp from both human and harper. Heal scrolls hit me for about 260-270 with a heal amp stick.

With 41 in assassin, 4 in acrobat for faster sneaking, 5 in human for int and heal amp, and 26 in harper for 4 int and heal amp, you're only left with 4 points to spend. I opted to spend them on melee power in harper. With the increase in damage, however, it might be necessary to spend those 4 in acrobat to get max threat reduction. I will try this setup and see how it works out.

[CThruTheEgo]

OP is now fully updated for U23. With the changes, the build reaches a 74 DC and the dps is sick. Whatever problems rogues had against undead before is now a thing of the past.