Hassan's Assassin

[hi_sa1nt]

Thank you. Envenomed blades used to apply the poison damage before the assassinate. So if the mob wasn't agroed on anyone else, it would effectively agro the mob on you which means you cannot get sneak attacks, which means you can't assassinate.

But this has apparently been fixed. I just tested it in the High Road. Sneaking around solo, I assassinated several mobs while envenomed blades was active. Poison damage was applied but they were still assassinated. I haven't read the release notes for U21 yet, so I don't know if this was mentioned in there or not.

+1

I'll try it out when I tr back into an assassin, whenever that. I remember reading something Envenomed Blades.. but it wasn't about assassinating anything.

Edit: From U21 Release notes:

Rogue Assassin
Venomed Blades will no longer prevent Rogue Assassinate from working.

[CThruTheEgo]

Updated the OP with U21 gear.

EMG is no longer needed so I dropped imp crit slash. That leaves the level 27 feat open. The rogue past life clicky, epic damage reduction, and dodge are all solid options.

I'm undecided about how to upgrade the Thunder Forged dagger. Dragon's Edge at tier 2 is an obvious choice for an assassin. I'm thinking the vulnerability proc from 1st degree burns in tier 1 will have good synergy with high sneak attack dps. Mortal fear at tier 3 seems like a good option. Crippling flames with the neg level chance also seems like a good choice. Any thoughts on these or other options?

[Healemup]

Drow Variant:
Drow seems like the only decent alternative for this kind of a build. Since you don't have many points to spend on the racial tree, the other races just don't offer much. The drow variant really focuses on assassinate. You lose some versatility, burst/boss dps, and possibly a bit of survivability for a minor gain to assassinate. So it depends on your priorities. Start with dex16, con14, int20, and drop epic toughness. Then take 3 points from acrobat tier 2 (from subtlety and/or haste boost, I'd probably just drop both to rank 2), along with the 3 points from the human tree (losing damage boost), to spend on drow spell resistance 1 and 2 and drow int 1 and 2. You end up with 3 more int which you could even out by twisting 1 int for +2 to assassinate at the cost of 78 HP, some burst/boss dps, and a twist. Alternatively, invest 2 level ups into con to take epic toughness instead of either weapon finesse or imp crit slash. You end up with the same HP and +1 DC for the loss of some burst/boss dps, a twist, and one feat.

I just think I want to go drow regardless, so what about 2 other possibilities. I haven't looked into all the remifications, but what about these other two possible starting stat blocks.

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 18
WIS 8
CHA 10
This allows you the same stats as a human, but you gain 2 CHA. I seem some pos and neg from this, but just wanting to hear your thoughts.

OR

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 15
INT 19
WIS 8
CHA 10
Putting 6 into INT and 1 into CON. This doesn't seem to net a lot of benefit that I can tell as you lose some of the skill points at 1st level.

[CThruTheEgo]

I just think I want to go drow regardless, so what about 2 other possibilities. I haven't looked into all the remifications, but what about these other two possible starting stat blocks.

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 18
WIS 8
CHA 10
This allows you the same stats as a human, but you gain 2 CHA. I seem some pos and neg from this, but just wanting to hear your thoughts.

Since imp crit pierce is no longer needed for use with EMG, the extra feat that human gets is less of an advantage than it was previously. I can tell you from experience the extra cha is not needed. UMD is already quite high on this build. I don't even wear a cha item and have no problems, even with several death penalties. And I never have to use swap items, even though I carry them just in case.

You will end up with an odd int unless you twist 1 int or spend an epic feat on great int. So overall you only gain 1 DC for the costs I've already mentioned in the section you quoted, as well as losing 1 full skill (admittedly this is hardly a loss on a max int rogue).

OR

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 15
INT 19
WIS 8
CHA 10
Putting 6 into INT and 1 into CON. This doesn't seem to net a lot of benefit that I can tell as you lose some of the skill points at 1st level.

This option has exactly the same costs/benefits as the one above. If you want a drow with epic toughness, I would just go with my second suggestion that you quoted. That option gives you the most skill points overall, but again, skill points don't mean much on this build so any of these options are viable.

The three optimal races for an assassin still offer the same advantages/disadvantages. Human gets the best burst dps through human damage boost and by spending the bonus feat on past life sneak of shadows. A drow without epic toughness can get 2 more DCs than a human; with epic toughness they can get 1 more DC. Halfling gets the highest sustainable sneak attack but has to spend a lot of AP to get there and will make other sacrifices (epic feat/s and/or twists) to get the same DC as a human. Personally, I find human to offer the best balance between dps, survivability, and DC. It really depends on your priorities with the character.

[Healemup]

Since imp crit pierce is no longer needed for use with EMG, the extra feat that human gets is less of an advantage than it was previously. I can tell you from experience the extra cha is not needed. UMD is already quite high on this build. I don't even wear a cha item and have no problems, even with several death penalties. And I never have to use swap items, even though I carry them just in case.

You will end up with an odd int unless you twist 1 int or spend an epic feat on great int. So overall you only gain 1 DC for the costs I've already mentioned in the section you quoted, as well as losing 1 full skill (admittedly this is hardly a loss on a max int rogue).



This option has exactly the same costs/benefits as the one above. If you want a drow with epic toughness, I would just go with my second suggestion that you quoted. That option gives you the most skill points overall, but again, skill points don't mean much on this build so any of these options are viable.

The three optimal races for an assassin still offer the same advantages/disadvantages. Human gets the best burst dps through human damage boost and by spending the bonus feat on past life sneak of shadows. A drow without epic toughness can get 2 more DCs than a human; with epic toughness they can get 1 more DC. Halfling gets the highest sustainable sneak attack but has to spend a lot of AP to get there and will make other sacrifices (epic feat/s and/or twists) to get the same DC as a human. Personally, I find human to offer the best balance between dps, survivability, and DC. It really depends on your priorities with the character.

One other thing to note a difference. Mine is a completionist, so I have to figure out which feat that will replace of the ones listed.

[CThruTheEgo]

One other thing to note a difference. Mine is a completionist, so I have to figure out which feat that will replace of the ones listed.

That would be an easy answer on a human: past life sneak of shadows. On a drow I'd say either weapon finesse and just accept awful dps against skeletons, or just forget about fitting in epic toughness altogether. A 74 DC assassinate would be pretty awesome.

[hi_sa1nt]

That would be an easy answer on a human: past life sneak of shadows. On a drow I'd say either weapon finesse and just accept awful dps against skeletons, or just forget about fitting in epic toughness altogether. A 74 DC assassinate would be pretty awesome.

How is the assassinate now in Haunted Halls and the Raids?

[CThruTheEgo]

How is the assassinate now in Haunted Halls and the Raids?

I don't know since I haven't done any of the quests/raids on my assassin yet. I've only gotten him flagged. Went exploring in the shadow dragon raid with just a few other people and we weren't killing anything we didn't have to - just trying to get as far as we could to learn a little - so I didn't try to assassinate any of the living mobs in there. There are a lot of skeletons, but dual triple positive light maces work pretty well against them.

Assassinate is flawless in Thunderholme, but since it's just an explorer area, that's not saying much. DCs seem really low in there anyway. I get nothing but critical successes when disarming traps, even without swapping to my trap gear.

I'll let you know once I've actually run the content on him.

[Rogann]

How is the assassinate now in Haunted Halls and the Raids?

From what I've seen with the Deathwyrm raid. Most of the mobs are skellies, shadows, orange/red named trash and the odd caster.

Thunder peaks raid also has a ton of skellies, orange/red named elementals, odd caster and some dogs.

Rogues are terrible in the new raids. I have yet to run haunted halls.

[CThruTheEgo]

Rogues are terrible in the new raids.

I did learn tonight that rotating the mirrors does not break stealth, so rogues make excellent solvers for the mirror puzzles.

[hi_sa1nt]

I did learn tonight that rotating the mirrors does not break stealth, so rogues make excellent solvers for the mirror puzzles.

Until they 'fix' that.

[CThruTheEgo]

Until they 'fix' that.

Given Turbine's history of fixing things, that could be tomorrow, or it could be never. Or it could be WAI. Either way, for now, rogues make excellent solvers for the mirror puzzles.

[Rogann]

I did learn tonight that rotating the mirrors does not break stealth, so rogues make excellent solvers for the mirror puzzles.

A rather moot point. The other 10-11 people not solving the puzzle can simply aggro the trash off the solver. What else are they going to do?

[CThruTheEgo]

What else are they going to do?

Stand in the beam to see who can get the lowest negative hp, of course, duh.

[Rogann]

Stand in the beam to see who can get the lowest negative hp, of course, duh.

Sounds like something rogues would be good at.

[Nahiz]

I'm undecided about how to upgrade the Thunder Forged dagger. Dragon's Edge at tier 2 is an obvious choice for an assassin. I'm thinking the vulnerability proc from 1st degree burns in tier 1 will have good synergy with high sneak attack dps. Mortal fear at tier 3 seems like a good option. Crippling flames with the neg level chance also seems like a good choice. Any thoughts on these or other options?

1st. degree burns/Dragon´s Edge/Mortal Fear sound like a good combo for almost every melee dps focused build.

BTW, if I ever start a new character, I´ll make an assassin after your build. Great job.

[Nodoze]

1st. degree burns/Dragon´s Edge/Mortal Fear sound like a good combo for almost every melee dps focused build.

BTW, if I ever start a new character, I´ll make an assassin after your build. Great job.

I also like the build and though I don't typically play rogues maybe will make one some day...

Regarding 1st degree burns, in Raids or large Parties there is a point of diminishing returns on Vulnerable... It maxes at 20 stacks regardless of source and builds spec'ed for it with the right weapons can fully max a Boss at 20% Vulnerable in 17-19 seconds and keep it there indefinitely while builds just using a weapon with vulnerable on it can take approx 45-50 seconds to get a boss fully Vulnerable.

Once a Boss is fully max vulnerable everyone but the designated person(s) keeping the boss maxed could switch to other weapon effects/procs like Touch of Flames or Touch of Shadows for more overall DPS.

[CThruTheEgo]

1st. degree burns/Dragon´s Edge/Mortal Fear sound like a good combo for almost every melee dps focused build.

Yeah this is the consensus that I am hearing as well. But Nodoze is right about the diminishing returns from vulnerability.

I am curious how a Thunder Forged dagger compares to Agony on this build. I'm sure that with greater epic dragon bane Thunder Forged is optimal against dragons, but I'm not sure against anything else.

Glad you like the build.

[Phot]

Thanks, nice build really ! But it seems it lacks some dex to achieve improved sneak attack.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Sneak_Attack

Or did i miss something ?

Edit :

Oh I see... +5 tomes ^^.... nvm !

[CThruTheEgo]

Thanks, nice build really ! But it seems it lacks some dex to achieve improved sneak attack.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Sneak_Attack

Or did i miss something ?

Edit :

Oh I see... +5 tomes ^^.... nvm !

Improved sneak attack is taken at level 24.