Hassan's Assassin

[sephiroth1084]

I do occasionally use bluff for this purpose.

I am rarely able to get the bluff, stealth, assassinate combo to work for me though. It's usually the case that the mob turns around and attacks me just as I'm getting stealthed, which then breaks stealth. I don't know what it is exactly. I have bluff, stealth, and assassinate easily accessible on my hotbar, so doing them quickly is not the problem.

Stealth first, then bluff, if you aren't already engaged in melee with them.

If you are, and you're still having trouble...I don't know...get faster hands? Or a better connection/computer? Or try stepping back, hitting bluff, breaking the animation with an attack, sneaking then Assassinating? It works for me almost every time I do it.

[CThruTheEgo]

Stealth first, then bluff, if you aren't already engaged in melee with them.

If you are, and you're still having trouble...I don't know...get faster hands? Or a better connection/computer? Or try stepping back, hitting bluff, breaking the animation with an attack, sneaking then Assassinating? It works for me almost every time I do it.

If I'm not in melee with them, then I bluff as they are approaching and then assassinate. That works just fine. It's when they're agroed on me and right up close that it rarely works. They'll turn around from the bluff, but are back facing me when I'm stealthed and before I can assassinate. It works occassionally but, in my experience, not consistently.

I actually got a better computer several months ago and the game's performance is vastly improved over the PoS laptop I had before, so connection/computer isn't the problem. And I've got stealth hotkeyed at number 1, assassinate at 3, and bluff at 4, so I've got quick and easy access to them all.

I've gotten into the habit of just ignoring a mob that's agroed on me, bringing it to someone else in the group to lose it, and assassinating something else in the process. That works for me pretty reliably.

[CThruTheEgo]

I must confess i didn't check the enhancements for assassin before i made the decision to drop weapon finesse from the build, and now i'm slowly regreting this.
I was under impression, that assassin PrE had an option to use Int for attack and damage (same way as artificers have spells for the same purpose). Unfortunatelly they only have enhancements for dex to-hit/dmg and only for daggers and kukris (for someone without finesse). This means my choice of weapons is strongly limited (can't use rapiers, shortswords and other rougish goodies, even mentioned by you light maces/hammers as skelly beaters).
In these circumstances i might have to rethink my choice of feats once again as i didn't find any int based weapon outside quarterstaves. Regarding epic Midnight Greeting - am i correct thinking that INT only adds to enhancement bonus (+6 to +10 max) and is STR/DEX is still being used for combat and damage rolls?

My other assassin (who i played on my main toon 2+ years ago) was STR+INT based assassin. While DC wasn't maxed out he at least was capable of solo play and was not so strongly party/tank dependant (aggro) like this one is and was still doing massive dmg while having agro or with high fortification mobs/bosses.

It's true there are some nice rapiers/shortswords, but with imp crit and knife specialization, none of them will compare to the dps you'll do with daggers/kukris. That's why weapon finesse is optional. The only time this is an issue is against skeletons, which isn't really an issue against the vast majority of skeletons in the game. The only one it is really going to matter against is the Truthful One, and since I've still got about 30 coms to get, I want to be able to maximize my dps against him. If you're limited on feats though, you can still just use a quarterstaff against him, which is less dps than dual wielding, but you have to make sacrifices somewhere and FoT has become a pretty routine raid.

There are some great named daggers. The Nightforge Stiletto has an increased crit range and is easy to obtain. Guardian of the Liturgy is probably the highest dps named dagger until epics and will compete with most lootgen you'll find in that level range. I used a GS rad2 dagger and guardian of the liturgy combo as my main set until 20th iirc.

And yes, you are correct about how EMG works.

I don't consider this build more tank/party dependant than a str/dex based rogue. The difference is only about 7 points of damage, which isn't much in the current state of the game. This character was also str based before the enhancement pass and str based in his 2nd life. I didn't even notice a difference in his damage output when I LRed him to int based after the enhancement pass. The damage difference is hardly noticeable, but the lethality definitely is. Going int based really isn't an issue for your dps.

EDIT: There are plenty of ways to deal with having agro and high fort mobs. Neither of these should be an issue whether you're str/dex based or int based.

[Calaquende]

I hope that you're still following this thread. I've put together the build for my halfling assassin (decided not to go Drow just for a change of pace) and have some questions about the enhancements you chose.

In the Assassin tree, how could you not take Shadow Dagger? It's a chance to blind the opponent and then jump in with sneak damage. Also, why would you take Venomed Blades over Damage Boost? Seems like the damage boost would be a lot handier. I also decided not to take Knife Specialization since I've got rapiers and am taking Weapon Finesse, but I imagine that this is just a personal choice. Execute also look interesting. Why did you not take that?

In the Mechanic tree, Wand & Scroll Mastery? When is this useful? Also, why would you not take the Skill Boost? Seems like an easy way to get +6 during tricky situations. (I took the first 3 core to get the light repeater, but that's just a personal thing, too.)

[CThruTheEgo]

I hope that you're still following this thread. I've put together the build for my halfling assassin (decided not to go Drow just for a change of pace) and have some questions about the enhancements you chose.

Shadow_Jumper just posted a solid halfling version of a high DC assassin. Check out his Shadow Assassin if your interested.

In the Assassin tree, how could you not take Shadow Dagger? It's a chance to blind the opponent and then jump in with sneak damage. Also, why would you take Venomed Blades over Damage Boost? Seems like the damage boost would be a lot handier. I also decided not to take Knife Specialization since I've got rapiers and am taking Weapon Finesse, but I imagine that this is just a personal choice. Execute also look interesting. Why did you not take that?

In the Mechanic tree, Wand & Scroll Mastery? When is this useful? Also, why would you not take the Skill Boost? Seems like an easy way to get +6 during tricky situations. (I took the first 3 core to get the light repeater, but that's just a personal thing, too.)

That's a lot of questions so I'll just jump right in.

I don't like having a bunch of clicky melee abilities and I never have a problem getting sneak attacks or managing agro, so I just don't have any need or desire for shadow dagger.

As a human, I've already got damage boost, which does not share a cooldown with rogue haste boost so they can be used together. And if I had to choose, I personally value haste boost over damage boost.

Venomed blades is a nice bit of bonus damage, just remember to turn it off before you assassinate something that isn't already agroed on someone else.

Also, you don't have to choose between venomed blades or damage boost. Get them both if you want.

Knife specialization gives daggers/kukris a much better crit profile than rapiers. With imp crit or keen, rapiers end up with 15-20x2 whereas daggers/kukris get 15-20x3.

Execute is also just another clicky melee ability that I don't want to bother with. Not wanting a lot of clicky abilities is purely a personal choice.

Wand and scroll mastery affects heal scrolls, so they heal you for much more. That's basically the only time it is useful, and that alone makes it well worth it.

Skill boost is definitely not needed. There simply aren't any "tricky situations." All of my skills are already high enough for any situation in the game.

The ranged option on this build is incredibly weak, so the mechanic core abilities could certainly be useful if you wanted that to be a bigger priority.

Hope that helps.

[Saekee]

Stealth first, then bluff, if you aren't already engaged in melee with them.

If you are, and you're still having trouble...I don't know...get faster hands? Or a better connection/computer? Or try stepping back, hitting bluff, breaking the animation with an attack, sneaking then Assassinating? It works for me almost every time I do it.

Also use Sap, then bluff, stealth, assassinate. The time between Sap and bluff is around 15 seconds, which means you can puff a ciggy between sapping and the other three. This is very useful when you are only getting 50% assassinates in EE--sap and try again. Sorry I am repeating myself--I mentioned the Sap feat above also.

I didn't know that knife specialization affects throwing daggers; that is huge. I know that mechanics get INT added to throwers (when they take the level 6 repeater enhancement for INT damage), so you might be better off anyway than Dex to damage there if you take that enhancement line.

I have been wondering about the use of Weapon Finesse--if it is just for use with undead and maces, how about Level 16 tier 3 Mournlode maces with Weapon Finesse crafted on them? They will be vastly inferior damage to the Greensteel (instead offering +5 Enhancement Bonus, Righteous, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, craftable) but are 1) way easier to make and 2) save a feat. Since you already crafted the greensteel, this might not make sense. It may be an option for someone implementing your build.

[CThruTheEgo]

I didn't know that knife specialization affects throwing daggers; that is huge. I know that mechanics get INT added to throwers (when they take the level 6 repeater enhancement for INT damage), so you might be better off anyway than Dex to damage there if you take that enhancement line.

I am actually trying this out currently. I took one rank from mechanics and wracking strike to pick up the second and third core abilities from mechanic for a better range option. It's still awful, but better than completely worthless, lol.

I have been wondering about the use of Weapon Finesse--if it is just for use with undead and maces, how about Level 16 tier 3 Mournlode maces with Weapon Finesse crafted on them? They will be vastly inferior damage to the Greensteel (instead offering +5 Enhancement Bonus, Righteous, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, craftable) but are 1) way easier to make and 2) save a feat. Since you already crafted the greensteel, this might not make sense. It may be an option for someone implementing your build.

I suppose that is an option if you're really feat starved. I wonder how that would compare to using a triple pos quarterstaff though. I'm not sure which would be better.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

If you have full on aggro from a mob Hit Bluff immediately followed by Sunder (or Trip) (which interrupts the Bluff animation but not the Bluff effect) then Sneak then Assassinate.

If I have aggro and mobs are near I ALWAYS interrupt Bluff with Sunder due to the fast animation of the Sunder effect with TWF (or Trip if Sunder on CD but Trip animation is a bit slower)

This trick will help with the timing of an Aggroed => Bluff => Sneak => Assassinate effect despite there being an extra step.

[Shadow_Jumper]

I hope that you're still following this thread. I've put together the build for my halfling assassin (decided not to go Drow just for a change of pace) and have some questions about the enhancements you chose.

Halflings are on of the most AP starved races for a rogue, some will always be personal preference, but going into making a halfling assassin, APs will always be tight

In the Assassin tree, how could you not take Shadow Dagger? It's a chance to blind the opponent and then jump in with sneak damage. Also, why would you take Venomed Blades over Damage Boost? Seems like the damage boost would be a lot handier. I also decided not to take Knife Specialization since I've got rapiers and am taking Weapon Finesse, but I imagine that this is just a personal choice. Execute also look interesting. Why did you not take that?.

With so many sources of deception now for an assassin, Shadow Dagger is not very useful for me, I almost always have some sort of deception effect going on, whether from the Shadow Dancer ED, Ring of Deceit, or some other source, there are other benefits that are more useful and more game changing, and in a build that needs every action point it can get, that is the reason why I recommend not taking Shadow Dagger.

If you don't have to choose between Venomed Blades and Damage Boost, take them both, on my build, I couldn't get both in, so if you have to choose between one, definitely choose Damage Boost over Venomed Blades.

Knife Specialization lets you work with DEX more as a damage stat for daggers, and while I don't usually use daggers, one of,, if not the highest DPS weapon a rogue can use atm is Agony, Knife in the Dark, which happens to be a dagger. With the combination of the planar focus sets (I used the Subterfuge set, Hassan has viable reasons for choosing the Prowess set though,, and the difference is more of what our builds focus on) they really are one of the best weapons a rogue can use. Currently I am using Agony/EMG as my main set, for non assassinatable monsters though, I would recommend 2x Agony however. Knife Specialization improves your DPS if you are a DEX dmg stat rogue, and lets you ignore a STR based damage output. Without it you would have to invest in STR for you damage unless you stuck to specific DEX based damage weapons, and while 3 stats to focus on is hard, 4 is almost impossible.

Execute is ok, however to me it is just another clicke in a sea full of them, and by the time I get a mob down to 35% health, it wont take long to finish him off. It also goes back to being stretched for APs, while it would be nice to have, it is not a necessity, and there are other more useful enhancements to put APs towards.

In the Mechanic tree, Wand & Scroll Mastery? When is this useful? Also, why would you not take the Skill Boost? Seems like an easy way to get +6 during tricky situations. (I took the first 3 core to get the light repeater, but that's just a personal thing, too.)

Wand and Scroll Mastery for self healing. Currently with a GS healing amp item, and the 10% HA from the ship buff, I can heal myself for 362 HP. That's a lot for one scroll, especially when you have 100% chance to cast the scroll, and your class generally maxes HP at around 800. Wand and Scroll Mastery goes a long way o improving a rogues self sustainability with is almost as vital in EE content as their assassinate DC is.

[Linvak]

Halflings are on of the most AP starved races for a rogue, some will always be personal preference, but going into making a halfling assassin, APs will always be tight



With so many sources of deception now for an assassin, Shadow Dagger is not very useful for me, I almost always have some sort of deception effect going on, whether from the Shadow Dancer ED, Ring of Deceit, or some other source, there are other benefits that are more useful and more game changing, and in a build that needs every action point it can get, that is the reason why I recommend not taking Shadow Dagger.

If you don't have to choose between Venomed Blades and Damage Boost, take them both, on my build, I couldn't get both in, so if you have to choose between one, definitely choose Damage Boost over Venomed Blades.

Knife Specialization lets you work with DEX more as a damage stat for daggers, and while I don't usually use daggers, one of,, if not the highest DPS weapon a rogue can use atm is Agony, Knife in the Dark, which happens to be a dagger. With the combination of the planar focus sets (I used the Subterfuge set, Hassan has viable reasons for choosing the Prowess set though,, and the difference is more of what our builds focus on) they really are one of the best weapons a rogue can use. Currently I am using Agony/EMG as my main set, for non assassinatable monsters though, I would recommend 2x Agony however. Knife Specialization improves your DPS if you are a DEX dmg stat rogue, and lets you ignore a STR based damage output. Without it you would have to invest in STR for you damage unless you stuck to specific DEX based damage weapons, and while 3 stats to focus on is hard, 4 is almost impossible.

Execute is ok, however to me it is just another clicke in a sea full of them, and by the time I get a mob down to 35% health, it wont take long to finish him off. It also goes back to being stretched for APs, while it would be nice to have, it is not a necessity, and there are other more useful enhancements to put APs towards.



Wand and Scroll Mastery for self healing. Currently with a GS healing amp item, and the 10% HA from the ship buff, I can heal myself for 362 HP. That's a lot for one scroll, especially when you have 100% chance to cast the scroll, and your class generally maxes HP at around 800. Wand and Scroll Mastery goes a long way o improving a rogues self sustainability with is almost as vital in EE content as their assassinate DC is.

I havn't looked, but if you grabbed the haste boost as a twist of fate from LD, do you have enough APs for the extra sa in halfling tree? But can you also get the faster sneaking? It makes assassinating much quicker and easier to get the double for mobs gapped a little bit.

[Shadow_Jumper]

I havn't looked, but if you grabbed the haste boost as a twist of fate from LD, do you have enough APs for the extra sa in halfling tree? But can you also get the faster sneaking? It makes assassinating much quicker and easier to get the double for mobs gapped a little bit.

I took the damage boost from the Assassin tree, the 3d6 SA die from Halfling tree, and all tiers of Faster Sneaking. For my twists I focused more on survivability, taking Brace for Impact, Unearthly Reactions, and Sense Weakness for DPS. Currently debating between the monk twist for 3% Doublestrike, or Haste boost if or when I get epic completionist.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

OP: With some points in mechanic rogues can get 100% of their DD on DC of traps...with your 108 DD you have an approx effective crafted deadly (50d6) trap DC of 81 (-20 for DD item and -7 for tools).

With some points in mechanic rogues can get 100% of their DD on DC of traps...

Even with a low average damage 175 for a deadly trap it seems that an 81 DC will hit even stuff max DC casters cannot...it's about 3 secs to set a trap (longer to setup a multi-trap kill zone but /shrug)

[Linvak]

I took the damage boost from the Assassin tree, the 3d6 SA die from Halfling tree, and all tiers of Faster Sneaking. For my twists I focused more on survivability, taking Brace for Impact, Unearthly Reactions, and Sense Weakness for DPS. Currently debating between the monk twist for 3% Doublestrike, or Haste boost if or when I get epic completionist.

Ya I'm still working on my epic destinys. And being a first epic life I don't have many points so I was just thinking short game for a bit. Right now iv given up my halfling tree and feel ******** because I'm not gaining anything and I'm actually losing 2 int or an extra feat that would help alot.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Ya I'm still working on my epic destinys. And being a first epic life I don't have many points so I was just thinking short game for a bit. Right now iv given up my halfling tree and feel ******** because I'm not gaining anything and I'm actually losing 2 int or an extra feat that would help alot.

Halflings walk a fine line in these builds, most people build a human or a Drow for obvious reasons. Completionist or ECometionist are not at all required, I have two lives towards each at the moment, however the Halfling requires a little more on tomes and gear than the other classes perhaps, I would say the biggest challenge for me was getting my ED tree and enhancement tree sorted out, I used a lot of tree resets tinkering with the different effects.

[CThruTheEgo]

OP: With some points in mechanic rogues can get 100% of their DD on DC of traps...with your 108 DD you have an approx effective crafted deadly (50d6) trap DC of 81 (-20 for DD item and -7 for tools).

With some points in mechanic rogues can get 100% of their DD on DC of traps...

Even with a low average damage 175 for a deadly trap it seems that an 81 DC will hit even stuff max DC casters cannot...it's about 3 secs to set a trap (longer to setup a multi-trap kill zone but /shrug)

Setting traps does not fit my playstyle. I tend move through quests pretty quickly, and so do most of the other players I run with. So it just doesn't suit me. It's definitely an option if you wanted to use them though.

[CThruTheEgo]

I've been planning how to fit in some of the new gear. Here's the new and old sets for easy comparison.

NEW SET:
Dark Diversion (threat-20/assassinate4/hide20/move silently20/colorless slotted globe)
Shadowscale light armor (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/2d6 sneak/reflex1/blue slotted resistance8 and? green slot)
Dragon Masque (exc sneak6/deception/deadly11/shadow spike - 2d6 negative on damage/yellow slotted con8/colorless slotted con2)
Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat expertise5/green slotted str6)
GS HP Smoke2 with resistance ritual (45HP/dex skills6/blur/displacement clicky x2/alchemical saves1)

OLD SET:
GS HP Smoke2 with resistance ritual (45HP/dex skills6/blur/displacement clicky x2/alchemical saves1)
Flawless Black Dragonhide Armor (haste guard/armor pierce20/relentless fury/acid res40/blue slotted max dex2/SET: doublestrike3)
EN Helm of the Black Dragon (con3/yellow slotted con7/colorless slotted Globe of True Imperial Blood/SET: doublestrike3)
Deadly 10 of Resistance 10 with colorless slotted strength 7 (competence damage10/resistance10/str7)
EE Skullduggery Kit (int skills6/dex skills6/random-seeker10/green slotted good luck2)

LOSE: armor pierce20/relentless fury/doublestrike3/resistance2/good luck2/dodge?
GAIN: deathblock/fort15/2d6 sneak/reflex1/exc sneak3/deception/deadly1/shadow spike/threat-20/assassinate4/hide20/move silently20

The necklace with +4 assassinate DC is a no brainer. I may be able to move the GS HP item depending on what other gear I switch out. If I had to give it up tho, it would be worth the extra DCs.

What I'm not sure about is the armor and helm. The only real benefit from the armor is the 2d6 sneak attack. The Dragon Masque nets me another 5 damage to exc sneak attack and 1 from deadly. That's a total gain of 13 damage by switching both.

I can move slots around to fit in stats from the helm, so that's not a problem. But losing the black dragon armor/helm means losing armor pierce 20, 3% doublestrike, and 5% melee damage from relentless fury (which is up pretty consistently since I'm generally leading the kill count). Assuming about 150 damage from base damage + sneak attacks, relentless fury adds roughly 7.5 damage. Assuming about 200 total damage (including proc effects) on the mainhand, 3% doublestrike adds roughly 6 damage. So a very rough estimate has these adding about 13 damage. Which means swapping to the new gear won't result in a major change in dps.

There are a few things about the new gear that I don't yet know. If anyone knows for sure, I'd appreciate the clarification. I'm not sure if the shadow spike effect on the helm procs on hit or on being hit, that makes a big difference and would put the new armor/helm ahead of the old set if it was on hit. Also, I haven't checked in game what the max dex bonus is on the shadowscale light armor. If it's too low (and therefore lowers dodge), that could be a deal breaker. The wiki isn't very clear, does the new armor end up with 2 slots fully upgraded, or just a green one?

It might be optimal to keep the black dragon armor and use the new helm.

Losing armor piercing on the black dragon armor is a definite loss, but since EMG is now obsolete (assuming it doesn't stack with the necklace, of course), I'm considering making a thunder forged dagger with armor peircing 35. I don't know how far behind the thunder forged dagger is to Agony, but I'm sure it's a lot better than an EMG.

If I use the Dragon Masque, I can slot resistance 8 elsewhere and lose the deadly of resistance ring. Then I could use Consuming Darkness for seeker 12 and move the GS HP item to the belt slot and just use the Skullduggery Kit as a swap when needed.

I'm just considering the possibilities right now. Anyone have any thoughts on the new gear and what's worth fitting in?

[Nodoze]

I've been planning how to fit in some of the new gear. Here's the new and old sets for easy comparison.
...

Unfortunately I don't know as I have too many other builds in process and don't have an Assassin build going ATM. Please share your findings as your threads/posts are very educational. I have been running with an Assassins lately and the results are simply amazing on quests... I have found out my best way to contribute to DPS/kills on speed runs is the haste out in front of him/them and get aggro and tank to group up melee mobs (or herd archers/casters together) so they can easily stealth in behind and dual-proc or even triple-proc Assassinates. Totally friggen crazy.

Please post what you learn and I will try to ping some folk in game to get their thoughts on the new gear if they have gotten it yet (I don't know if they are active on forums or not).

[CThruTheEgo]

The shadowscale light armor has the same max dex bonus as the black scale, 19. So I'd say the new setup listed in my post above is what I will be going with, along with a thunder forged dagger with armor pierce 35.

Also, the shadow spike on the helm procs on being missed. So it's not a big deal for a build that shouldn't be getting agro.

I'm still not sure if the upgraded armor has one or two slots. The initial armor has a blue slot in the description. Then the upgrade says a green slot is removed. I'm guessing that's a typo and it is supposed to gain a green slot, but there's no way to know for sure without actually upgrading a set.

@Nodoze: Thanks man. Yeah let me know what you hear about the new gear. I'd like to know what others think of it.

[hi_sa1nt]

Nice write up, but quick question. Why doesn't assassinate work that well when Envenomed Blades is toggled?

[CThruTheEgo]

Nice write up, but quick question. Why doesn't assassinate work that well when Envenomed Blades is toggled?

Thank you. Envenomed blades used to apply the poison damage before the assassinate. So if the mob wasn't agroed on anyone else, it would effectively agro the mob on you which means you cannot get sneak attacks, which means you can't assassinate.

But this has apparently been fixed. I just tested it in the High Road. Sneaking around solo, I assassinated several mobs while envenomed blades was active. Poison damage was applied but they were still assassinated. I haven't read the release notes for U21 yet, so I don't know if this was mentioned in there or not.