Hassan's Assassin

[skorpeon]

OP is now fully updated for U23. With the changes, the build reaches a 74 DC and the dps is sick. Whatever problems rogues had against undead before is now a thing of the past.

TYVM, looks like its time to go back to my favorite build!

Just get my monk life done, something to look forward to!

[redoubt]

Shadar kai is certainly an option, but you won't have many points to spend on the racial tree, especially after tomorrow when harper is added. Without the racial enhanements, you're not really taking full advantage of the race. That's essentially the same problem I see with halfling.

I'll definitely be purchasing harper tomorrow and will then know for sure exactly what is available in the tree and how much it will cost. But I wouldn't expect to have much to spend in the racial tree.

I've been eyeing going back to a shadar-kai assassin when I'm done with the past life run I'm on now.

7 points in shadar-kai gets you 1 INT, a speed sneak, and a super jump. The super jump alone is such a fun thing (and useful) that its pushing me to shadar-kai instead of drow.

Could drop the point of INT from harper tier 4 and you would have 7 points available for the racial tree.

Could also drop the tier 4 heal amp and pick up execute.

How do you feel the new update is for assassins and agro? In my thread asking about it, Nokowi has said that it is better, but another said the double assassinate still does not work when solo due to the auto-agro after an assassinate attempt.

[CThruTheEgo]

I've been eyeing going back to a shadar-kai assassin when I'm done with the past life run I'm on now.

7 points in shadar-kai gets you 1 INT, a speed sneak, and a super jump. The super jump alone is such a fun thing (and useful) that its pushing me to shadar-kai instead of drow.

Could drop the point of INT from harper tier 4 and you would have 7 points available for the racial tree.

It takes 12 AP in harper to get int to damage and know the angles. That's an absolute must-have. The rest could be spent as desired, really, but you do get a lot by spending them in harper – 9 melee power, 3 more int, heal amp, and 2 to hit and damage vs evil. Pulling 7 points from there, you'd lose some combination of 2 int, heal amp, 3 melee power, and 2 to hit and damage vs evil. If you place a higher priority on shadow jaunt, then yeah it's certainly doable.

Could also drop the tier 4 heal amp and pick up execute.

I personally don't place much value on execute, but I'm also not a fan of clicky based attacks. Melee power will do much more for you than execute. I'm not sure I'd want to lose heal amp either. I'm finding heal scrolls to not be enough without wand and scroll mastery. But I'm also not interested in wasting 5 AP just to unlock wand and scroll mastery and then spending another 6 to max it out. I'm going to try twisting in cocoon to supplement healing and see how that works. Cocoon plus heal scrolls should be sufficient, and dropping heal amp may be more viable with those changes.

How do you feel the new update is for assassins and agro? In my thread asking about it, Nokowi has said that it is better, but another said the double assassinate still does not work when solo due to the auto-agro after an assassinate attempt.

I haven't played a lot since the update to be honest. Most of my play time the past week has been spent updating my builds on the forum, updating my characters in game, and flagging my characters who are at level for the new raid. So I haven't had much time to experiment with the new mechanics. I have seen double assassinates with groups. I don't enjoy soloing, so I don't know how U23 has affected that. I'll find out about the solo mechanics whenever I happen to wander off by myself while in a group.

[morkahn82]

Hi, I want to copy your build and have some questions:

If i want to go halfling, which feat would you drop?

Why do you skill intimitade?

Why not skill heal? Doesnt it increase healing cocoon output?

Prolly noob questions, but I dont know the answers. Please help.

[CThruTheEgo]

If i want to go halfling, which feat would you drop?

Past life rogue: sneak of shadows.

Why do you skill intimitade?

Mostly for optionals but also for the very rare situation when it's useful to pull mobs.

Why not skill heal? Doesnt it increase healing cocoon output?

I didn't invest in heal because I didn't discover that heal scrolls were no longer sufficient (and that I wsnted cocoon) until after I LRed. I did the math and 11 ranks of heal would only add about 2 more healing per tick of cocoon, so not a big deal without it. If I was going to LR again, though, I'd probably drop either concentration or tumble to max heal.

[morkahn82]

Past life rogue: sneak of shadows.



Mostly for optionals but also for the very rare situation when it's useful to pull mobs.



I didn't invest in heal because I didn't discover that heal scrolls were no longer sufficient (and that I wsnted cocoon) until after I LRed. I did the math and 11 ranks of heal would only add about 2 more healing per tick of cocoon, so not a big deal without it. If I was going to LR again, though, I'd probably drop either concentration or tumble to max heal.

thanks a lot! +1 (not sure if i have enough reputational power that it would matter)

[morkahn82]

I transformed my rogue into this build, unfortunately I could not pick all epic feats like this, need to unlock more destinies.

But nevertheless, this build rocks, never seen so beautiful damage numbers, and I enjoyed a lot of EE quests yesterday.

[nokowi]

While this is a good set-up, I find the lack of Sheltering or Speed items in the gear setup to be surprising. I have already expressed my opinion that getting good Will saves is very important, and that running around with 120% fortification is a really bad idea (using Yugo post with this build). No need for discussion with the OP as we have already done this.

Check out my signature if you want to see a set-up that removes what I perceive as weaknesses in the Hassan Assassin U23 build.

[CThruTheEgo]

While this is a good set-up, I find the lack of Sheltering or Speed items in the gear setup to be surprising.

You should take a closer look then. Speed 15 is on the Epic Quiver of Alacrity and PRR 16 is slotted. The difference between PRR 16 and 30 is 6% damage mitigation. It's not huge.

I actually came up with a gear setup yesterday that offers improved defenses with slightly lower offense and does include PRR 30, but I haven't had a chance to update the OP yet.

I have already expressed my opinion that getting good Will saves is very important

You've also expressed that your 3 bard past lives (which provide you with an additional 6 to your saves vs enchantments and illusions might be affecting your perception of the effectiveness of your will save. I've had the same will save as you (45 when we had our previous discussion about this) on another build and found it to fail 60+% of the time. So your assertion about the effectiveness of an assassin's will save without the benefit of 3 bard past lives is questionable.

running around with 120% fortification is a really bad idea (using Yugo post with this build).

And as we both acknowledged previously, this might matter more in solo play (which I'm not interested in) than in group play.

[brzytki]

Speed 15 is on the Epic Quiver of Alacrity

You might want to check it again. From what i understand, Speed 15 was on it on Lamaland but only ranged portion of it made it to live servers. At least that's what ddowiki says.

[CThruTheEgo]

I was playing around with some alternative gear options and came up with a setup that gains some survivability at the loss of some dps. Here are the net gains and losses of the new set.

Net gain: riposte9, insight AC5, fort4, reflex4, will2, golem's heart, PRR14, heal amp30, doublestrike1, speed14
Net loss: UMD 6, 2d6 light damage, deadly 1, greater dispelling guard

It's mainly the heal amp (for stronger cocoon) and extra PRR that I chose this set for. It's also an option to wear a Planar Focus of Prowess in the trinket slot instead of Epic Litany. They both offer the same attack/damage bonus, but planar prowess provides an additional 15 PRR (which is roughly 5% additional damage mitigation) while Litany offers +2 to all stats (which amounts to 28 HP, 1 DC, and 1 to all saves). For now, I'm favoring Litany.

I also took 4 AP from versatile adept and invested in subtlety from acrobat. I have found myself pulling agro more than I like, which means the dps is doing just fine. So investing in threat reduction should actually increase overall dps even though I've pulled the points from melee power to do so, since a rogue who has agro gets no sneak attack damage.

You might want to check it again. From what i understand, Speed 15 was on it on Lamaland but only ranged portion of it made it to live servers. At least that's what ddowiki says.

I noticed that on wiki as well, but wiki is also missing a screenshot and without that, wiki's info may not be accurate. It doesn't matter anyway as the new gear set has speed 14 on the Epic Ethereal Bracers.

[Eth]

I noticed that on wiki as well, but wiki is also missing a screenshot and without that, wiki's info may not be accurate. It doesn't matter anyway as the new gear set has speed 14 on the Epic Ethereal Bracers.

Quiver only affects ranged attack speed. Source: ingame item of a guildie.

[CThruTheEgo]

Quiver only affects ranged attack speed. Source: ingame item of a guildie.

Thanks for the confirmation Eth. I guess that's one more gain for the new gear set then.

[nokowi]

Thanks for the confirmation Eth. I guess that's one more gain for the new gear set then.

Thanks for adding a speed item. (Nokowi suggestion)
The new gear set is looking more and more like mine. (Bracers + Planar Focus Subterfuge) (see signature)
While I am glad to provide helpful suggestions, I would prefer that you don't suggest my build is not EE viable in my thread and then incorporate my ideas into your own thread.

Now I am interested in your Fire absorption set-up for U23 raid.

Also, keep in mind that that -50 concentration means you cant scroll heal in combat. I am not touching the epic Quiver. This is also the reason to use the planar focus of subterfuge (for SA) and drop epic litany.

[CThruTheEgo]

Thanks for adding a speed item. (Nokowi suggestion)
The new gear set is looking more and more like mine. (Bracers + Planar Focus Subterfuge) (see signature)
While I am glad to provide helpful suggestions, I would prefer that you don't suggest my build is not EE viable in my thread and then incorporate my ideas into your own thread.

You should really read more carefully, as you often misread what I write. It's responses like these that make me think you don't even read my posts and are just trolling. As I said in my response to your post at the beginning of the day, I came up with the gear set currently listed yesterday, which was before you even posted your build, I just hadn't updated the OP with it yet. And if you read the other posts from today, you will see that I was under the impression, due to a lack of accurate information, that I already had a speed item. So sorry to burst your bubble but I didn't incorporate any of your suggestions. I came to these decisions entirely independent of you and your build. And at no point did I state that your build was not EE viable. Provide a quote of where I said this if you think I did. So make sure you succeed your reading comprehension check before you join the conversation. I'm not even going to bother responding to you any more if you're not going to bother reading what I write.

Also, keep in mind that that -50 concentration means you cant scroll heal in combat. I am not touching the epic Quiver. This is also the reason to use the planar focus of subterfuge (for SA) and drop epic litany.

At best concentration is going to be about 50-60 without the -50 from the Quiver, which is meaningless for EE already. Damage avoidance is going to facilitate scroll use much more than concentration will.

[nokowi]

You should really read more carefully, as you often misread what I write. It's responses like these that make me think you don't even read my posts and are just trolling. As I said in my response to your post at the beginning of the day, I came up with the gear set currently listed yesterday, which was before you even posted your build, I just hadn't updated the OP with it yet. And if you read the other posts from today, you will see that I was under the impression, due to a lack of accurate information, that I already had a speed item. So sorry to burst your bubble but I didn't incorporate any of your suggestions. I came to these decisions entirely independent of you and your build. And at no point did I state that your build was not EE viable. Provide a quote of where I said this if you think I did. So make sure you succeed your reading comprehension check before you join the conversation. I'm not even going to bother responding to you any more if you're not going to bother reading what I write.



At best concentration is going to be about 50-60 without the -50 from the Quiver, which is meaningless for EE already. Damage avoidance is going to facilitate scroll use much more than concentration will.

My apologies as I did misread your comment. Please don't lecture me on reading comprehension when you misread the Epic Quiver information. I hope you can see how it looks like you copied my build when you suddenly update your build to look much like mine. I did feel slighted that you credited someone else when I pointed out you were missing a speed item, and when you implied that my build information had inflated numbers when I clearly posted 0 past life information in my OP.

As to concentration, mine was 51 in U22 and gains from a +20 item in U23. This puts my concentration at 71 with GH. I have chosen defensive roll, which is going to cut hits when I am below 1/2 health in half about 3/4 of the time. If you add in my damage reduction through PRR (~50%), I hope you can see how EE non-crits might hit for small enough for concentration to succeed. 300 (EE non crit damage) * (1/2) * (1/2) = 75 damage. Thus scroll healing would seem to be a viable option if you choose defensive roll and heal when you are below 1/2 health, even without miss chances.

If you understand some game mechanic that I don't (like concentration check applies before damage reduction), please let me know.

Edit: Here is why I like my build so much. I can choose to equip concordant opposition boots with +6 concentration to regen SP and bump my concentration up to 77. This might even give me a chance above 1/2 health. (for hits in the 170 range).

There are lots of options when my boot spot is free (as it is outside of Epic Abbot).

[CThruTheEgo]

Please don't lecture me on reading comprehension when you misread the Epic Quiver information... I did feel slighted that you credited someone else when I pointed out you were missing a speed item.

I didn't misread anything. Again, if you follow the conversation, you will see that I acknowledged that wiki reported the Epic Quiver as only affecting ranged, but it didn't have a screen shot this morning when I made that statement (it does now). Eth's screenshots in the unofficial loot thread from Lammania show the Epic Quiver as affecting both melee and ranged. I was taking both into account and acknowledged the lack of definitive evidence. All you said was that I didn't have a speed item. If by this statement you were specifically referring to the Quiver not affecting melee, then that was not clear at all. It was brzytki who was the first to specifically mention that the Quiver does not affect melee and Eth who confirmed it. So sorry if you feel you weren't credited appropriately, but you didn't seem to be pointing out anything.

I hope you can see how it looks like you copied my build when you suddenly update your build to look much like mine.

It doesn't look like I copied your build if you consider that I came up with my new gear set before you posted yours, which I stated quite clearly in my original response to you earlier today.

[CThruTheEgo]

I have chosen defensive roll, which is going to cut hits when I am below 1/2 health in half about 3/4 of the time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, in order for defensive roll to trigger at 50% or less health, you have to have rank 3 of improved defensive roll from tier 4 in acrobat, which means spending a minimum of 23 AP in acrobat. You don't have improved defensive roll listed in the enhancements in your build. With no ranks in improved defensive roll, it has a chance to trigger at 20% or less health.

[nokowi]

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, in order for defensive roll to trigger at 50% or less health, you have to have rank 3 of improved defensive roll from tier 4 in acrobat, which means spending a minimum of 23 AP in acrobat. You don't have improved defensive roll listed in the enhancements in your build. With no ranks in improved defensive roll, it has a chance to trigger at 20% or less health.

20% is correct. Thank you. I have added defensive roll to my build based on my tests that show crippling strike only applies once every 2 seconds, but I don't have a lesser heart to actually play with defensive roll. Do you now agree that scroll healing can benefit from concentration, and that using the Epic Quiver removes that option?

[nokowi]

I didn't misread anything. Again, if you follow the conversation, you will see that I acknowledged that wiki reported the Epic Quiver as only affecting ranged, but it didn't have a screen shot this morning when I made that statement (it does now). Eth's screenshots in the unofficial loot thread from Lammania show the Epic Quiver as affecting both melee and ranged. I was taking both into account and acknowledged the lack of definitive evidence. All you said was that I didn't have a speed item. If by this statement you were specifically referring to the Quiver not affecting melee, then that was not clear at all. It was brzytki who was the first to specifically mention that the Quiver does not affect melee and Eth who confirmed it. So sorry if you feel you weren't credited appropriately, but you didn't seem to be pointing out anything.



It doesn't look like I copied your build if you consider that I came up with my new gear set before you posted yours, which I stated quite clearly in my original response to you earlier today.

I pointed out that you had no speed item, which led to the other posts. Why do you think someone was checking the quiver?

I'm not sure how you consider this nothing.