TWF feats now work with Wolf and Bear forms, is this wai?

[SerPounce]

Heh, I just read some of that dude's posts.

Well egg on my face, I fed the troll.

It's just frustrating when people intentionally muddy the waters of feedback threads with pure misinformation.

[SerPounce]

I guess I'm as bad at building druids as Cetus is at building fighters....

I think I can live with myself.

[Charononus]

I guess I'm as bad at building druids as Cetus is at building fighters....

I think I can live with myself.

You're not in tears? Ok I'm not either. =P

[Emerge2012]

These forums are awful outside of a couple posters. No wonder everyone cringes when I mention something about this place in game.

[Diyon]

I notice you don't actually play a druid.

That signature is waaaaay out of date. I play have like 3+ druids. That fvs in my sig is one now and the one I described.

That guy was wrong, as I'm sure you knew as you read the thread. And "I do fine in EE with my guild group" means jack, Albus the hireling does fine in EE with my guild groups. As are out of context numbers (80 PRR? where's that coming from? same with 50% static doublestrike, what are you giving up for that?). Wolf DPS is way behind 2wf and 2hf, and requires more feats (shield feats +nat fighting). Throw around out-of-context numbers all you want, it's still unreasonable that you take a melee nerf by using a form that nerfs your spellcasting.

Ok, for one, I said with a guildy, as in singular and I was pulling a lot of the weight. Two, I believe I mentioned be able to solo some EEs.

You want some more numbers and context? Challenge accepted.

20 druid/7 epic lvls 1 past life FvS
Human

Starting stats

STR 16
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 8

All level ups in WIS

Current stats in primal avatar self buffed (no rage, no ship buffs etc)

STR 36
DEX 22
CON 32
INT 8
WIS 38
CHA 8

Feats:

Natural Fighting x3
Shield Mastery
Imp. Shield Mastery
Toughness
IC:B
Quicken
Maximize
Precision
Dodge (for the knockdown immunity enhancement)

742 HP (still need to reslot insightful con in, as well as vitality. Plans are in motion for that)
AC 73 (still need to reslot deflection bonus in, plans)
81 PRR (Medium armor, large shield) You can split this apart yourself. I have +14 PRR augment. The rest can be derived from what I listed

Fate slots:
Legendary shield mastery
Hail of blows
Healing power (Plans to be a tier three twist, need 3 more fate points)

Spell Power (without season, I think seems to be stuck in summer I subtracted appropriately. without meta):

Acid: 155
Cold: 65
Electric: 65
Fire: 60
Force: 65
Light: 60
Negative: 100
Positive: 320
Repair: 62
Sonic: 56

Saves:

Fort- 39
Ref- 29
Will- 42

Doublestrike static- 50% (18% natural fighting, 8% shield masteries, 7% legendary shield mastery, 6% on my alchemical shield, 3% black dragon set, 3% hail of blows, 5% Perfect TWF)

Have a deadly IX item on, magic fang gives a +6 enhancement bonus (which since it goes to my shield to, also to my AC), ram's might another +2.

If you want more gear information I can provide it, if you're on Khyber, I can demonstrate.

Edit: **** forgot a primal toggle, +2 to STR/DEX/CON when its active (most of the time basically).

[Tilomere]

Everyone has different definitions of viable. For some it is soloing EE Cabal for One against groups of 3-5 6k hp orcs and bosses and mobs that can be evaded by jumping on things.

For others, it is doing EE Breaking the Ranks against four sets of two overlapping waves of twenty 18k hp mobs each while fighting a 220k hp boss, while being stuck in the middle of plain ground surrounded by traps, while being bombarded from the air by a dragon.


Dealing with four sets of 900k hp worth of mobs back to back on plain ground while surrounded by traps and being bombarded by a dragon requires a whole new level of viable than dealing with a group of five 6k health orcs in Cabal for One.

It is when you go from dealing with 30k hp worth of elite mobs at a time to 1M that wolf single target damage really starts to fade, TWF bug or no. But up until that point it is a blast. My 26 druid caps out at soloing EE high road content, so even level EE's.

[SerPounce]

snip

OK, so you've got DCs in, what, the mid forties? Maybe lower....

Combined with low spell power, you're just heals and DPS. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's the "context." You're like a melee FVS swinging a cleaver/esos, except you don't do as much damage, your heals are weaker, and you have 2/3 the spell points.

PRR:
18 (med armor) +10 (Shield mastery) + (15 legendary SM) +14 (Augment) = 57
what am I missing?

It's a good build, but it really proves the point. You're giving up a lot for in order to do decent melee.

[Diyon]

OK, so you've got DCs in, what, the mid forties? Maybe lower....

Combined with low spell power, you're just heals and DPS. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's the "context." You're like a melee FVS swinging a cleaver/esos, except you don't do as much damage, your heals are weaker, and you have 2/3 the spell points.

PRR:
18 (med armor) +10 (Shield mastery) + (15 legendary SM) +14 (Augment) = 57
what am I missing?

It's a good build, but it really proves the point. You're giving up a lot for in order to do decent melee.

My healing doesn't need to be stronger. If I decide to it more than perfectly capable of healing groups/raids without too much effort. I typically wield a sacrificial dagger (con poison) so stuff if getting neg lvled constantly. I've been able to knock stuff down in EE quests. Just not super CC it. Anything that can be neg lvl'd is toast.

Also, I think people are neglecting something about druid's and +W. I'm almost always hitting an attack spell that adds a whole bunch of +W. Alpha strike is an +10W aoe. Which brings me to also doing a bunch of aoe damage. I'll finish the breaking the PRR when I get back.

[Charononus]

My healing doesn't need to be stronger. If I decide to it more than perfectly capable of healing groups/raids without too much effort. I typically wield a sacrificial dagger (con poison) so stuff if getting neg lvled constantly. I've been able to knock stuff down in EE quests. Just not super CC it. Anything that can be neg lvl'd is toast.

Also, I think people are neglecting something about druid's and +W. I'm almost always hitting an attack spell that adds a whole bunch of +W. Alpha strike is an +10W aoe. Which brings me to also doing a bunch of aoe damage. I'll finish the breaking the PRR when I get back.

Is that working now? Last time I tried to test alpha strike it was bugged and wouldn't let me take it.

[Diyon]

Is that working now? Last time I tried to test alpha strike it was bugged and wouldn't let me take it.

Ya that was in the first round of things they fixed. It's pretty sweet.



Now the PRR.

Medium Armor gives you Physical Resistance Rating equal to 2/3 of your Base Attack Bonus (round up) and add +4.

Have BaB 19 atm, so: 16.67

Shield Mastery: 10

Legendary Shield Mastery: 15

Augment: 14

Nature's Warrior Capstone: 10

Annnnnnd there seems to be a mysterious extra 15 in there. No clue where its coming from, but I assure you its there. I can take screen shots if really need the confirmation. (Took off armor and shield)

[elyssaria]

Ya that was in the first round of things they fixed. It's pretty sweet.



Now the PRR.

Medium Armor gives you Physical Resistance Rating equal to 2/3 of your Base Attack Bonus (round up) and add +4.

Have BaB 19 atm, so: 16.67

Shield Mastery: 10

Legendary Shield Mastery: 15

Augment: 14

Nature's Warrior Capstone: 10

Annnnnnd there seems to be a mysterious extra 15 in there. No clue where its coming from, but I assure you its there. I can take screen shots if really need the confirmation. (Took off armor and shield)

Divon - Would you mind posting or PM me your complete build with gear... You peaked my interest and I might give it a try with a variant of your build. So a more precise build would be very very helpful!

Thanks in advance!

/K

[Diyon]

Divon - Would you mind posting or PM me your complete build with gear... You peaked my interest and I might give it a try with a variant of your build. So a more precise build would be very very helpful!

Thanks in advance!

/K

Ya I can do that. Just not right this second. Some pieces of my gear haven't been optimized yet as I said earlier, but that's in the works (gear was pretty much set up preU19, but I still have a number of augment slots empty), and it still holds in own in pretty much any difficulty. Most deaths are either stupid error on my part (wasn't watching my hp because it was doing fine the whole time, bad timing decision on when to heal) or nasty CC like a stun in a bad situation.

*Edit*Just realized that stupid name underline makes my forum name look like "Divon" instead of "Diyon."

[xjac]

So, currently the wolf form can do more sneak attack damage than that of a pure rogue or rogue/monk/rgr splash, with the ability to equip passive effect weapon in offhand without losing an important suffix damage.

[Diyon]

So, currently the wolf form can do more sneak attack damage than that of a pure rogue or rogue/monk/rgr splash, with the ability to equip passive effect weapon in offhand without losing an important suffix damage.

Not sure where you are getting that. A pure rogue has 18d6 SA damage potentially without counting gear. A pure druid wolf form only gets 8d6. A splashed one could maybe get 13d6, but it's probably not the best lvl split or enhancement distribution.

[Maelodic]

Ya I can do that. Just not right this second. Some pieces of my gear haven't been optimized yet as I said earlier, but that's in the works (gear was pretty much set up preU19, but I still have a number of augment slots empty), and it still holds in own in pretty much any difficulty. Most deaths are either stupid error on my part (wasn't watching my hp because it was doing fine the whole time, bad timing decision on when to heal) or nasty CC like a stun in a bad situation.

*Edit*Just realized that stupid name underline makes my forum name look like "Divon" instead of "Diyon."

Can you send me this too please?

I like animals.

[xjac]

Not sure where you are getting that. A pure rogue has 18d6 SA damage potentially without counting gear. A pure druid wolf form only gets 8d6. A splashed one could maybe get 13d6, but it's probably not the best lvl split or enhancement distribution.

A splash build can get up to 17d6. 13 rog/4 mnk/3 dru. If you replace druid with ranger, which is what I mentioned (13 rog/4 mnk/1 rgr or 15 rog/4 mnk/1 rgr), you can get 18d6, and the ability to do unarmed attack speed, stunning fist, and 10% more offhand strikes.

Although enhancement wise it's very ap strained (achievable, but you won't have much left for anything else), it's still possible to drop 1d6 or 2d6 and still get more SA damage than a pure rogue can deal, due to the wolf/unarmed speed, double strike chance, offhand chance, and stunning fist.

edit: any gear that adds to sneak attack damage will favor wolf/unarmed much more than a pure rogue.

[Diyon]

A splash build can get up to 17d6. 13 rog/4 mnk/3 dru. If you replace druid with ranger, which is what I mentioned (13 rog/4 mnk/1 rgr or 15 rog/4 mnk/1 rgr), you can get 18d6, and the ability to do unarmed attack speed, stunning fist, and 10% more offhand strikes.

Although enhancement wise it's very ap strained (achievable, but you won't have much left for anything else), it's still possible to drop 1d6 or 2d6 and still get more SA damage than a pure rogue can deal, due to the wolf/unarmed speed, double strike chance, offhand chance, and stunning fist.

edit: any gear that adds to sneak attack damage will favor wolf/unarmed much more than a pure rogue.

Ok, what you you mean is more sneak attack damage over time, not per hit. Also that you were talking about using this bug. Neither of those were very clear, although in retrospect I should have realized the latter of the two.

In any case, I don't expect this to continue working, so I don't really feel like its worth investing the time to actually use it.

[Violith]

Ok, what you you mean is more sneak attack damage over time, not per hit. Also that you were talking about using this bug. Neither of those were very clear, although in retrospect I should have realized the latter of the two.

In any case, I don't expect this to continue working, so I don't really feel like its worth investing the time to actually use it.

not sure what you mean by SA over time, he was talking about per hit. pure rogues and the rogue/monk/ranger can get 18d6, the rog/monk/druid can get 17d6, thats per hit, however. the ranger splashed build is only better if using handwraps since it'd then be using flurry of blows, and even then it'd be hard to say how much better besides just the unarmed attack speed. The druid splash is nice, but it requires wolf form, and being centered so your list of weapons is more limited.

wolf form for 13rog/4monk/3druid is 1.5[1d6]/19-20x2. rogue weapons are similiar if not better then that, and twf is alot quicker then the wolf form attack speed, so rogue pulls out ahead in SA DPS out of the two of them. not to mention to get the SA as a pure rogue you can spend 9 less AP, and get a vorpal ability (think people consider that 5dps per hit) so, overall a pure rogue should be better then the druid splash if your merely talking about SA+dps.

[xjac]

Shouldn't Wolf and unarmed attack faster than TWF? You get 30% increased attack speed while in wolf form. Not being able to get offhand strikes in wolf form was the problem, and this bug changes it.

And I was talking about SA damage over time; unarmed gives you ~10% more hits / minute, and with deft strikes you get 90% offhand strike chance with twf line; pure rogue only gets 80% with twf line. And to top that off, you get stunning fist, which gives 50%~100% more sneak attack damage (if you're taking No Mercy), and a sure way to guarantee sneak attack damage. On wolf form it's extra 30% double strike and ~30% more hits / minute. I think either one pulls ahead in SA damage over time compared to a pure rogue. Not sure how Assassinate will change this.



It's always possible that they could not fix the bug and just declare it as WAI or leave it unfixed for many years; I will probably make one if it's not fixed by U20.

[elyssaria]

It's always possible that they could not fix the bug and just declare it as WAI or leave it unfixed for many years; I will probably make one if it's not fixed by U20.

Not completely sure that this is a bug tbh, then had to do something to the melee druids. We will see what happens though.. If they change this then they again have to change something with the melee druids. Time will tell I guess.

Edit - Cause TWF/ITWF/GTWF are way better then then 3xNatural Fighting+Wolf increased attackspeed. As long it is like that then you are better off being a druid using Scimitars/Khopeshes or even better Balizarde Rapier or Rebellion Shortsword. Then you don't have the penalties on the cooldown on spells that you get being a wolf, neither do you get the penalty of -2 int and charisma either