Doubleshot: is it really worth it?

[Alfhild]

Per the Manyshot Tooltip: Activating this ability reduces your Extra Shot by 100% for 70 seconds
Per the 10K Stars Tooltip: Activating this ability reduces your Extra Shot by 100% for 45 seconds

Say you are a Monkcher using the standard rotation of:
30 secs of 10K, 20 secs of MS, 10 secs of Single shot, 30 secs of 10K, 30 secs of Single, repeat from beginning
Your MS debuffs your 10 secs of Single Shot and your second 10K debuffs 15 secs of the 30 seconds of Single, leaving you with just 15 secs out of 2 minutes where Doubleshot can actually work.

For L18-20 Rangers with the T4 and T5 core, your Doubleshot is debuffed for 50 seconds of the 100 seconds where you are waiting for MS to recycle.


So is Doubleshot really worth it?

Personally I think the Devs went overboard on the Manyshot debuff. If they want to preclude Monkchers from benefitting from DS, then just extend the 10K star debuff to 60 seconds. But making MS have a 70 sec debuff only really punishes those builds who use Manyshot whose sustained ranged DPS is really not that overpowered even if loaded up with as much Doubleshot as the game provides.

Your thoughts?

[Limey]

If you spend a lot of time shooting without MS then maybe it's worth it but if you are also 10King then no as that time is better spent meleeing for KI regen.

[96th_Malice]

If you spend a lot of time shooting without MS then maybe it's worth it but if you are also 10King then no as that time is better spent meleeing for KI regen.

He is correct ..... There is next to no time for DS to proc.

Was a great idea I guess

[Glascanon]

Testet it and in fact the doubleshot chance is not set to 0 by using Manyshot or 10k.

I think they might changed their mind about that because it would make a 28 epic destenie feat totaly worthless.
Maybe its a "bug" and they will fix it.

In fact it stacks and u can shot 5 or more arrows with Manyshot if u r lucky.
10% doubleshot on 4 arrows should be an average of 4,4 Arrows per shot.

I testet it with 21% doubleshot but it barly realy shots 5 arrows.
feels like ~1 of 5 shots doing 5 arrows.
Saw 6 arrows on one shot a few times but the exact scaling is a miracle.

But the main reason u fire a lot of arrows with Manyshot its not because of the 10% doubleshot chance.
Its because u fire a base of 4 arrows with Manyshot.

No sense to set doubleshot to 0 if u ask me.

Yes it boosts the DPS but a lvl 28 epic destenie Feat should do that or not?

Why adding doubleshot to the game and make it worthless at the same time?

[Alfhild]

Testet it and in fact the doubleshot chance is not set to 0 by using Manyshot or 10k.

I think they might changed their mind about that because it would make a 28 epic destenie feat totaly worthless.
Maybe its a "bug" and they will fix it.

In fact it stacks and u can shot 5 or more arrows with Manyshot if u r lucky.
10% doubleshot on 4 arrows should be an average of 4,4 Arrows per shot.

I testet it with 21% doubleshot but it barly realy shots 5 arrows.
feels like ~1 of 5 shots doing 5 arrows.
Saw 6 arrows on one shot a few times but the exact scaling is a miracle.

But the main reason u fire a lot of arrows with Manyshot its not because of the 10% doubleshot chance.
Its because u fire a base of 4 arrows with Manyshot.

No sense to set doubleshot to 0 if u ask me.

Yes it boosts the DPS but a lvl 28 epic destenie Feat should do that or not?

Why adding doubleshot to the game and make it worthless at the same time?

I am curious as to how you concluded that doubleshot was working with 10K Stars.

Currently only level 26 on my Monkcher but will take the Doubleshot feat when I hit 27 to test this as well.
Would also be curious if there are any L27 T5 AAs out there who can test. With doubleshot feat, and the T4 and T5 AA cores, they would have +25%.
The two things that need to be tested are whether doubleshot affects Manyshot and whether it affects the single shots following Manyshot's expiration.
Also we would want to avoid autoattacks and confine ourselves to single click attacks to ensure spacing between attacks to avoid conflating the results of 2 autoattacks.

[Limey]

I tested Doubleshot on an item using Manyshot and never saw more than the normal 4 arrows so I doubt the feat will be any different.

[JasonJi72]

I tested it on a Druid archer with the doublestrike action boost, and it did provide more arrows.

[Alfhild]

I tested it on a Druid archer with the doublestrike action boost, and it did provide more arrows.

Did it provide extra arrows during Manyshot? or arrows in the 50 seconds after Manyshot?

[schelsullivan]

I am curious as to how you concluded that doubleshot was working with 10K Stars.

Currently only level 26 on my Monkcher but will take the Doubleshot feat when I hit 27 to test this as well.
Would also be curious if there are any L27 T5 AAs out there who can test. With doubleshot feat, and the T4 and T5 AA cores, they would have +25%.
The two things that need to be tested are whether doubleshot affects Manyshot and whether it affects the single shots following Manyshot's expiration.
Also we would want to avoid autoattacks and confine ourselves to single click attacks to ensure spacing between attacks to avoid conflating the results of 2 autoattacks.

Im a lev 28 elf t5 AA and if the all stack I will have +25%, Ive done a quick test and will do more to confirm later.

Initial test results show of 21 of first 100 test were doubled, for 50sec after manyshot expired I seem to be getting just as many doubled, 5 out of 20, though Ill do more tests tonight for confirmation.

BTW I noticed during manyshot some of them were 5 arrows, so 1 of the 4 gets doubled, but I also notice a couple many shots came out as a single! Is manyshot broken in such a way as some of them come out as single?

[Alfhild]

Im a lev 28 elf t5 AA and if the all stack I will have +25%, Ive done a quick test and will do more to confirm later.

Initial test results show of 21 of first 100 test were doubled, for 50sec after manyshot expired I seem to be getting just as many doubled, 5 out of 20, though Ill do more tests tonight for confirmation.

BTW I noticed during manyshot some of them were 5 arrows, so 1 of the 4 gets doubled, but I also notice a couple many shots came out as a single! Is manyshot broken in such a way as some of them come out as single?

Are you autoattacking when testing or single click attacking? For testing, single click is preferable since you have greater spacing between volleys to avoid conflating the results of more than one attack. You will not be able to get in as many attacks but avoid confusion.
And thanks very much for testing this.

[Alfhild]

Edit function not working for me
You mentioned what seemed to be one shot anomalies; I have not seen that at all but wonder if those single shots are producedby doubleshot proccing off an already doubleshotted arrow. So spacing your volleys would be important to deterimine this as well since depending on the coding, it might be possible to see 6 arrows come out of the standard manyshot volley of 4.

[schelsullivan]

Are you autoattacking when testing or single click attacking? For testing, single click is preferable since you have greater spacing between volleys to avoid conflating the results of more than one attack. You will not be able to get in as many attacks but avoid confusion.
And thanks very much for testing this.

The 100 arrow test was performed in the following manner.

I held down left click for auto attack as I slowly swept to the side and counted 10 attacks. Had my son count the double arrows in each volley of 10. This was repeated 10 times. ~needs more testing~

Next I activated manyshot and again swept to the side so each attack could be easily seen, though I didnt count every manyshot attack but some were definitely 5, and some were 1. I dont think the singles were extra doubleshot procs because I was careful to space each attack into a separate column. ~needs more testing~

After manyshot expired I did a volley of 20 arrows and 5 were doubled, to me this confirms that manyshot is not affecting Doubleshot feats or enhancements negatively.

Notice manyshot tooltip says reduces "extrashot" is that even the same thing as "doubleshot"?

It may be "extrashot" is a weapon prefix/suffix that is affected, while "doubleshot" is a feat/enhancement and thus is not affected?

[Alfhild]

I held down left click for auto attack as I slowly swept to the side and counted 10 attacks. Had my son count the double arrows in each volley of 10. This was repeated 10 times. ~needs more testing~

Next I activated manyshot and again swept to the side so each attack could be easily seen, though I didnt count every manyshot attack but some were definitely 5, and some were 1. I dont think the singles were extra doubleshot procs because I was careful to space each attack into a separate column. ~needs more testing~

So you are visually counting the arrows from the shot graphic? Not sure what you mean by columns. Are the 5 shot volleys confirmed in the combat log?

As Saco said, extrashot was just renamed doubleshot to coincide with the doublestrike terminology.

[saco]

How reliable is visual counting? To me I only see that as erroneous calculations as visual numbers are anything but consistent. I always use consumable arrows to keep track.

[FestusHood]

Sorry to sidetrack a second, but do monkchers still function now that manyshot and 10k stars share a cooldown timer?

[niehues]

The 100 arrow test was performed in the following manner.

I held down left click for auto attack as I slowly swept to the side and counted 10 attacks. Had my son count the double arrows in each volley of 10. This was repeated 10 times. ~needs more testing~

Next I activated manyshot and again swept to the side so each attack could be easily seen, though I didnt count every manyshot attack but some were definitely 5, and some were 1. I dont think the singles were extra doubleshot procs because I was careful to space each attack into a separate column. ~needs more testing~

After manyshot expired I did a volley of 20 arrows and 5 were doubled, to me this confirms that manyshot is not affecting Doubleshot feats or enhancements negatively.

Notice manyshot tooltip says reduces "extrashot" is that even the same thing as "doubleshot"?

It may be "extrashot" is a weapon prefix/suffix that is affected, while "doubleshot" is a feat/enhancement and thus is not affected?

I was just reading through and just to tell what i think after I read this.. ..

If manyshot gives you the ability of fire "extrashots" per shot.. that means that once the effect is seassed the suppose ability should wear off.. and i think is that the description says.. once it wear off u loose the ability of fire those "extrashots"

it does make sense to me at least..

that would make me believe that the extrashot is not related to doubleshot.. that gives u a change of "double" one of your hits..


still a bit confuse though..

[Alfhild]

Sorry to sidetrack a second, but do monkchers still function now that manyshot and 10k stars share a cooldown timer?

Pre-U19 Manyshot and 10K shared a 30 second cooldown which prevented them from being used concurrently and also meant you had to wait 10 seconds to activate 10K if you started with Manyshot whereas you could proceed to Manyshot directly after 10K because the 30 sec CD had expired.

Nothing has changed post-U19

[schelsullivan]

Hey thanks for the responses.

I did test the number of arrows per attack visually, by the number of arrows sticking out of the floor I fired them into! To be honest I did not think of the combat log at all.

When I use the word "column" I was referring to the 4 arrows stacked vertically per attack that appear in when many shot is active.

When doubleshot procs you will see 2 arrows per attack stacked vertically.

Otherwise you see a single arrow per attack.

Occasionally during the manyshot volley you will see 5 arrows per attack also stacked vertically.

Someone earlier in this thread said they saw 6 arrows? Were they stacked vertacally?

Anyway that may not be the best way to test, but I have the feat and enhancements and actually "watching how many arrows" in each attack seemed reasonable.

[Alfhild]

Anyway that may not be the best way to test, but I have the feat and enhancements and actually "watching how many arrows" in each attack seemed reasonable.

If you can bank all your arrows except a set amount of non-conjured one as Saco mentioned you could compare your visual observations with your actual consumption.

[schelsullivan]

If you can bank all your arrows except a set amount of non-conjured one as Saco mentioned you could compare your visual observations with your actual consumption.

Yes that does make a lot of sense. Test and see if the graphic are a true representation of actual arrow attacks.

So I just tested that real quick like this.

10 arrows in arrow slot - single shot, single shot, single shot, doubleshot - resulting in 7 remaining! What!

Repeat:
10 arrows in arrow slot - single shot, single shot, doubleshot, single shot - resulting in 5 remaining! ***!

Repeat:
10 arrows in arrow slot - doubleshot, single shot, single shot, single shot - resulting in 6 remaining! I give up!

looks like wonky math to me, 4 attacks with 1 doubleshot proc, just what I expect with +25% but the arrows subtracted from the the arrow slot was different 3 times in a row.