Acrobat VS assassin

[Steeve2000]

Hi I was wondering what were the advantages/disadvantages of Acrobat compared to assassin. They both look fun, but I am new at this game so I would appreciate some pointers from some more experienced players.

[Bumbaragum]

Depends alot on your playstyle, both are great. But they differ on the feats you chose for each one.

Assassins - Work better with the Two weapon fighting line (Improved and greater, you will need a minimum of 17 dex to get those) so you take out as much dmg on sneak attacks and double strikes. Precision is another good feat to lower more your target defenses against SA (sneak attack). You sneak alot around monster, take out the casters first and work with your group never going first in battle.

Acrobats - Work alot with Cleave and Great Cleave feats, damaging a good amount of mobs grouped together and rapidily reducing their hitpoints (Required to take the Power Attack feat, minimum 13 strength to obtain it). Its a great enhancement line to multiclass with Monks, Barbarians and many others diferent splits. Usualy you're more inside the fray and more easly targeted by mobs, so you need to be more beefy.

Chose the one you identify most, play with the two if you like.

[Steeve2000]

Should I take the thf line if I go acrobat??

[oradafu]

Should I take the thf line if I go acrobat??

As a Dex build, you might not have enough STR to invest past the first THF feat.

As a STR, if you want to, go ahead. It's not necessary. It really depends on your playstyle or if you want to take advantage of other feats. I'm sure there's about a 60/40 split on whether investing in the THF line, with more people tilting for the investment.

[Qezuzu]

The enhancement pass was a huge boon to Acrobats and Mechanics.

DPS-wise, I'm guessing both Q-Staff and TWF rogues are about equal. It's really hard to judge now, there's just so many variables.

Still no Assassinate for Acrobats though, which IMO still puts them at a disadvantage: not a huge one, though. But, if you're looking to build an Acrobat, I advise multi-classing into fighter, monk and/or barb.

[unbongwah]

Still no Assassinate for Acrobats though, which IMO still puts them at a disadvantage: not a huge one, though.

The beauty of the new system is PrEs are no longer exclusive; if you wanted to do an INT-based Assassin with enough Acro enhs to use staves instead of dual-wielding, go ahead.

[Steeve2000]

The beauty of the new system is PrEs are no longer exclusive; if you wanted to do an INT-based Assassin with enough Acro enhs to use staves instead of dual-wielding, go ahead.

I did not think of that! I kept trying to figure out which one was the best for me because of the thf/twf feats but I could use staff with both!

Also I am a bit on the fence about multiclassing since pure rogues get good sa at lv 20 when they stay pure. Would going multiclass bring better stuff?

[mezzorco]

If going STR acrobat, you could even consider splashing 1 druid level, for Shillelagh (+1[w]) and Ram's Might (+2 STR, +2 damage).

[unbongwah]

Also I am a bit on the fence about multiclassing since pure rogues get good sa at lv 20 when they stay pure. Would going multiclass bring better stuff?

If you want to max out your sneak atk DPS and/or plan to take the T5 Assassinate ability, it makes sense to stay pure rogue; the Assassin capstone (+4d6 SA, +2 INT -> +1 Assassinate DC) is still pretty sweet. Multiclassing is about beefing up your DPS or survivability in other ways. E.g., a druid splash lets you add Shillelagh (+1[W] to wooden staves), Ram's Might, Beguile, and possibly the Doublestrike action boost from Nature's Warrior; it also opens up metamagics if, say, you're playing a halfling w/healing DM. A few levels of monk would let you add stances and the Henshin Mystic staff abilities, like Quick Strike.

[Dmnqwk]

If you choose assassin, you want to stay pure rogue for the assassinate DC. It's the primary reason for choosing to be an ass.

If you're going for acrobat, 13 levels is sufficient (12 is technically okay, but why not take the extra level for 1sneak die and a rogue feat). Combine it with 6 levels of monk and 1 Druid to obtain:
a) Access to Ninja Spy PrE for the incorporeal core plus faster sneaking (taken with the t-a one too for really fast sneaking!)
b) 1 druid offers magical training so you can have spell points for rejuve coccoon. Also offers access to a spell giving you the benefits of deadly weapons (aka +1(w) damage).
c) Access to Ninja Spy raising the dodge cap... which is something you should be close to hitting with an 8% dodge item on.

When it comes to racial choices:
1) If you choose Assassin, you need to be Drow. They get to begin with 20 int, plus access to +2 int with cores, for higher DCs
2) If you choose Thief-acrobat, then dex based ones can be either halfling, elven or drow depending on what you fancy.
3) If you choose Strength based Thief-acrobat, Human or Helf are peachy, since you'll probably split str and dex a bit and try to get Str to 23 and Dex to 21 to meet feat requirements.

Just remember the following while making your char:
1 - 2hf (for thief acrobats) needs a Str of 17 for the greater version. This could be Base 14 and a +3 tome
2 - 2wf (for assassins) need a Dex of 17 to get greater 2wf.
3 - Precision (a must have feat for any rogue) needs a Dex 13 and Power Attack requires a Str of 13 (which is needed for cleave and great cleave).

Good luck choosing the rogue style which suits you best.

[HastyPudding]

If you choose assassin, you want to stay pure rogue for the assassinate DC. It's the primary reason for choosing to be an ass.

If you're going for acrobat, 13 levels is sufficient (12 is technically okay, but why not take the extra level for 1sneak die and a rogue feat). Combine it with 6 levels of monk and 1 Druid to obtain:
a) Access to Ninja Spy PrE for the incorporeal core plus faster sneaking (taken with the t-a one too for really fast sneaking!)
b) 1 druid offers magical training so you can have spell points for rejuve coccoon. Also offers access to a spell giving you the benefits of deadly weapons (aka +1(w) damage).
c) Access to Ninja Spy raising the dodge cap... which is something you should be close to hitting with an 8% dodge item on.

When it comes to racial choices:
1) If you choose Assassin, you need to be Drow. They get to begin with 20 int, plus access to +2 int with cores, for higher DCs
2) If you choose Thief-acrobat, then dex based ones can be either halfling, elven or drow depending on what you fancy.
3) If you choose Strength based Thief-acrobat, Human or Helf are peachy, since you'll probably split str and dex a bit and try to get Str to 23 and Dex to 21 to meet feat requirements.

Just remember the following while making your char:
1 - 2hf (for thief acrobats) needs a Str of 17 for the greater version. This could be Base 14 and a +3 tome
2 - 2wf (for assassins) need a Dex of 17 to get greater 2wf.
3 - Precision (a must have feat for any rogue) needs a Dex 13 and Power Attack requires a Str of 13 (which is needed for cleave and great cleave).

Good luck choosing the rogue style which suits you best.

As far as acrobats go, I'm enjoying being human. The human racial tree only needs a few points invested to get +3 to any stat while an action boost is active (and acrobats love action boosts). Just because a race has +2 to a stat doesn't mean it needs to be pigeon-holed into a class or a class into it; if that were the case there would be no warforged wizards or sorcerers and humans would be nonexistent.

I don't think the THF line is worth the feats, anymore. As a rogue, you want to cut back on the glancing blows as much as possible, so the less aggro the better and the more sneak attacks you get. Power attack, cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical (if strength build) are the new THF line feats. You'll get more damage out of them and you can somewhat control your aoe aggro. This is somewhat of a hot-button issue with people, but in my opinion, the THF feats are better spent elsewhere.

As far as precision goes, for a mechanic or assassin it works great (and some other ranged builds like AA or artificer). Acrobat has more of a raw damage/critical damage type of build, and power attack should be turned on permanently to maximize this. Acrobats also lost their dexterity-to-sneak-attack-damage passive, further lowering its reliance on SA damage.

[Steeve2000]

I believe I will go rogue 13, monk 6 and fighter 1. It looks like it will be a well rounded character. Does the monk staff enh stack with the acrobat's? Can I have two bonuses to crits?

[Bumbaragum]

If you take the Tier 5 in one enhancement tree you close all others tiers 5 enhancements trees. Simply speaking you only need a minimum of level 5 in a specific class on a total of 12 level player and 30 points spent on that particular tree. Level 3,6,12,18,20 in a specific class unlocks the 2,3,4,5,6 "core enhancements" hability of it.


I don't recomend going Assassin AKA getting the Assassinate enhancement on a Qstaff user (counting being a pure rogue) because in that way you will be losing Alot (VERY VERY MUCH) of the capability of assassinating your targets.

Using TWF gives you double, triple, etc strikes more often than not, monsters in higher difficultys tend to save more often so lets say you have a 65%(pretty marginal, but some high fortitude monster tend to take you there) of landind a successful assassinate per hit having normaly the minimum of 2 x 65% is way more than 2/3. Not counting when you get behind 3-4 monsters grouped together and assassinate the lot of them leaving only one to be butchered.

On a Q-staff you decrease significantly your odds simply lowering the number of assassinates per use. Besides that you wont be able to adquire the increase in the threat range and multipler of Qstaff if you go on the assassinate route.

To summs things up dont skip your own experience and play around the enhancements in all trees and find what suits you better being in the perfect build for that one or not.

[EssenceofEvil]

I'm thinking of trying a dex acrobat myself. I'm still undecided to try helf with fighter dilly enhancements for +2 to damage with staves or wf for the weapon attachment enhancement.. Maybe helf since I won't have such a big penalty to my umd.

[Arkantios]

Pst guys, try an assassin with the overwhelming crit chain...

[Dawnsfire]

It's the primary reason for choosing to be an ass.

I laughed . . .