Tempest Trapmonkey for new players

[EllisDee37]

I don't really do archery so I can't say for sure, but I think bows use dexterity for damage by default, don't they? Then if you take Bow Strength you get the better of dex or str for damage with bows.

[mna]

I don't really do archery so I can't say for sure, but I think bows use dexterity for damage by default, don't they? Then if you take Bow Strength you get the better of dex or str for damage with bows.

Um, AFAICT, no. Bows don't get damage bonus from ANY stat by default. (You do get reduced damage from a negative str mod, though.)

For stat-to-damage bonuses with long/shortbow, you need either bow strength or elven grace, or...

All forms of ranged do use dex for attack bonus by default, though.



Dex-based halfling rangers would become a lot more popular in a hurry if there was a way for them to get dex to damage with longbows.

[Soulfurnace]

Um, AFAICT, no. Bows don't get damage bonus from ANY stat by default. (You do get reduced damage from a negative str mod, though.)

For stat-to-damage bonuses with long/shortbow, you need either bow strength or elven grace, or...

All forms of ranged do use dex for attack bonus by default, though.



Dex-based halfling rangers would become a lot more popular in a hurry if there was a way for them to get dex to damage with longbows.

Ninja spy training I. (1 monk level, 1 ap.)

You are proficient with short swords and treat them as Ki weapons. While you are centered, you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit with piercing and slashing weapon.

Does that count with Zen Archery?

[unbongwah]

Is there some mechanism whereby we can use dex as a damage option with longbows?

AFAIK, the only options are (A) play an elf with maxed-out Aerenal line + elven Grace (+DEX to dmg w/rapiers, longswords, and longbows); or (B) play a centered monk w/lvl 3 Ninja Training (+DEX to dmg w/piercing & slashing weapons, inc. bows, IIUC), which means picking up Zen Archery as well.

It's pretty easy to convert this build into (A); I'd have to think a bit to figure out the best way to handle (B).

[droid327]

[color=yellow]Human (12 AP)
Core: Human Versatility: Damage
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 1: Skill Focus: Nimble Fingers II
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark
Tier 3: Improved Recovery

Tempest (34 AP)
Core: Shield of Whirling Steel
Core: Tempest
Core: Graceful Death
Core: Deflect Arrows
Core: Whirlwind
Tier 1: Improved Reaction III
Tier 1: Whirling Blades
Tier 2: Improved Parry III
Tier 2: Whirling Blades
Tier 2: Sprint Boost III
Tier 3: Whirling Blades
Tier 4: Elaborate Parry III
Tier 4: Whirling Blades
Tier 5: Evasive Dance III

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
Core: Far Shot
Core: Sneak Attack
Core: Exposing Strike
Tier 1: Increased Empathy III
Tier 1: Versatile Empathy II
Tier 1: Tendon Cut III

Arcane Archer (12 AP)
Core: Arcane Archer
Core: Morphic Arrows
Core: Metalline Arrows
Tier 1: Conjure Arrows
Tier 1: Energy of the Wild III
Tier 1: Awareness III
Tier 3: Soul Magic

Kensei (4 AP)
Core: Kensei Focus: Archery
Tier 1: Haste Boost III

Mechanic (4 AP)
Core: Arbalester
Tier 1: Mechanics III

Assassin (3 AP)
Core: Knife in the Darkness
Tier 1: Sneak Attack Training

I'm wondering about that /1 Fighter splash. Rgr already gives you full Martial prof and you're taking Khopesh anyway, plus you're not feat-starved (you can probably drop Sap) and you can take Haste Boost in Tempest. Or am I missing something obvious about the /1 Fig splash? I think you'd get a lot more out of going 2 Rogue...here's more or less what I'd tweak with the enhancements:

-Tempest: Bleed Them Out
-DWS: Drop Tendon Cut for Stealthy 3/3, +1 Sneak die
-AA: Drop Awareness for Inferno Arrow. It works great with Manyshot.
-Assassin: Venomed Blades, Shiv
-Thief-Acrobat: Sly Flourish

You get a nice set of attacks to cycle through with increased weapon die and crit profile.

[EllisDee37]

Actually, which enhancement is it that speeds up trapping? Now that I've seen it in action I simply must have it but not sure where it is.

The fighter gives both haste boost and sprint boost, both of which I very much want while not costing an arm and a leg like rogue haste boost does if I went 18/2 ranger/rogue. Not to say 18/2 isn't viable; it's quite nice as an option. Just saying that that was the reason I decided to keep the fighter level.

[AsburyParker]

Actually, which enhancement is it that speeds up trapping? Now that I've seen it in action I simply must have it but not sure where it is.

The enhancement to speed up disabling seems to have not made it live from alpha testing of the enhancement pass. But, the induction bars for disable and maybe search have gotten faster since pre-U19.

[EllisDee37]

I think it's just search that has an enhancement to speed it up, not disable. (And then there's a level 27 feat to make search instantaneous.)

[BOgre]

The fighter gives both haste boost and sprint boost, both of which I very much want while not costing an arm and a leg like rogue haste boost does if I went 18/2 ranger/rogue. Not to say 18/2 isn't viable; it's quite nice as an option. Just saying that that was the reason I decided to keep the fighter level.

Just to be clear, Fighter dunt grant 'both' haste and sprint. Sprint is coming from the Temp tree, and Haste is coming from the Kensai. Yes, the Kensai sprint is cheaper, AND the 3rd tier is 30s versus Rog TA's 20s. TBH, this seems like an oversight to me - Fighter haste %30/30s/3AP versus TA haste %30/20s/6AP... I expect this to be tweaked at some point.

Also, 1 level of Fighter gives access to Exotic Weapon Mastery for a total of +2 to hit and +1 damage for 3AP, which is not too shabby.

[xjac]

Actually, which enhancement is it that speeds up trapping? Now that I've seen it in action I simply must have it but not sure where it is.

The fighter gives both haste boost and sprint boost, both of which I very much want while not costing an arm and a leg like rogue haste boost does if I went 18/2 ranger/rogue. Not to say 18/2 isn't viable; it's quite nice as an option. Just saying that that was the reason I decided to keep the fighter level.

Being an elf/drow grants access to "Nothing Is Hidden," which allows you to instant find traps given that your score is high enough even after the penalty.
Probably not worth losing ddoor, 30% heal amp, human adaptability/versatility, skill focus/mastery, and fighting style just by itself; but if you pick elf you also get +6% to hit, +3% doublestrike/doubleshot/dodge, 3% dodge bypass, elf weapon training, +100 sp, and possibly +1 feat if you're not taking dragonmark and not using khopesh.

It's a hard choice, for me the ddoor and heal amp makes me settle for human on my unarmed ranger; but I'll probably make an elf rogue just for the instant trap finding, provided that not many pub are already doing so (since you only need one person in party to find the trap, then you can speed up the whole trapping process.)

Morninglord and Shadar-Kai also have "Nothing Is Hidden" enhancement, also the previously mentioned level 27 epic feat; so it's possibly that a lot of people are walking around with it, even though they might not be able to disable the trap (grabbing it just to avoid them).

[EllisDee37]

Yeah, I hear you and share your sentiment.

So much so that I'm thinking I might rather take the instant trap-finding feat instead of blinding speed at level 27.

[Panpiper]

Looks like Deepwood Stalker's Empathy just got nerfed big time. Might need to revise the enhancement plan here.

[EllisDee37]

Looks like Deepwood Stalker's Empathy just got nerfed big time. Might need to revise the enhancement plan here.

In a bit of serendipity the deepwood stalker enhancements as listed in the build are already pretty optimized for the devotion change.

Taking the tree to core 3 for the melee attack gets us 3 cores and the full (20) devotion from tier 1, so that's 50 devotion. We lose 25, yes, but it's not worth spending another 10 AP in the DS tree for 10 devotion.

[Spero]

Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Tempest1: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tempest2: Whirling Blades


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Tempest2: Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Tempest3: Whirling Blades

I followed this build for 4 levels on a new toon and loved it - so I decided to LR my lvl 16 pure rogue into this, but I am running into some trouble. Progressing from lvl 6 to 7 I do not get to place 2 points into Concentration. Can you please verify that this is indeed what I am supposed to be able to do and that I made a mistake somewhere? (I have never LR'd before and am a little worried I messed it up. Right now I am just stuck in limbo on Heart of Wind. ) Thank you!

[EllisDee37]

I followed this build for 4 levels on a new toon and loved it - so I decided to LR my lvl 16 pure rogue into this, but I am running into some trouble. Progressing from lvl 6 to 7 I do not get to place 2 points into Concentration. Can you please verify that this is indeed what I am supposed to be able to do and that I made a mistake somewhere? (I have never LR'd before and am a little worried I messed it up. Right now I am just stuck in limbo on Heart of Wind. ) Thank you!

Are you human?

The build lists 9 skill points spent on both 6 & 7:

2 Skill: Concentration (+2)
2 Skill: Disable Device (+1)
1 Skill: Heal (+1)
1 Skill: Search (+1)
1 Skill: Spot (+1)
2 Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
---
9 skill points

Which you should have:

6 ranger
2 int mod (14 base)
1 human
---
9 skill points


As for concentration totals, here are the ranks taken through 7:

2 Level 1 (2 total)
0 Level 2 (2 total)
1 Level 3 (3 total)
1 Level 4 (4 total)
2 Level 5 (6 total)
2 Level 6 (8 total)
2 Level 7 (10 total)

This complies with all skill maximums per level while also getting concentration to max ranks by level 7. If you're human, did you take a rank (or even a half rank) in concentration at level 2, maybe?

For reference, here's the skill table I used when creating this build:

        O   F   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   
        1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20   
Concent 2       1   1   2   2   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
Heal    2       1   1   1   1   1   2   2   2       2       2       2       2       2   23
Search  4       1   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
Spot    4   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
DD      4   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
UMD     4       1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
OL      4  0.5 0.5                                      1       1       1       1        9
Balance 4                                                                                4
Haggle  4                                                                                4
Tumble  1                                                                                1
Swim    3                                                                                3
Jump    4                                                                                4
       44   5   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   

<End Table>

[Spero]

Are you human?

The build lists 9 skill points spent on both 6 & 7:

2 Skill: Concentration (+2)
2 Skill: Disable Device (+1)
1 Skill: Heal (+1)
1 Skill: Search (+1)
1 Skill: Spot (+1)
2 Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
---
9 skill points

Which you should have:

6 ranger
2 int mod (14 base)
1 human
---
9 skill points


As for concentration totals, here are the ranks taken through 7:

2 Level 1 (2 total)
0 Level 2 (2 total)
1 Level 3 (3 total)
1 Level 4 (4 total)
2 Level 5 (6 total)
2 Level 6 (8 total)
2 Level 7 (10 total)

This complies with all skill maximums per level while also getting concentration to max ranks by level 7. If you're human, did you take a rank (or even a half rank) in concentration at level 2, maybe?

For reference, here's the skill table I used when creating this build:

        O   F   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   R   
        1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20   
Concent 2       1   1   2   2   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
Heal    2       1   1   1   1   1   2   2   2       2       2       2       2       2   23
Search  4       1   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
Spot    4   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
DD      4   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
UMD     4       1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   2   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   23
OL      4  0.5 0.5                                      1       1       1       1        9
Balance 4                                                                                4
Haggle  4                                                                                4
Tumble  1                                                                                1
Swim    3                                                                                3
Jump    4                                                                                4
       44   5   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   9   

<End Table>

Thank you for the quick and clarifying reply! Well, it is clear I messed up. (Yes, I am human. ) Looking over it I put an extra point in Concentration and left one out of Spot. That can be adjusted for on the next lvl though - phew - but for I do find myself having 10 points to spend now due to a +1 Tome of Supreme Ability that has carried over through the LR. Any suggestion on how to spend that extra point? (Hm. Should I maybe up it to a +2 ToSA for evens? And if so - what would you recommend I place these extra points in?)

I apologize for the unnecessary bother! I do very much enjoy this build - thank you for putting this together!

[EllisDee37]

If you have a +2 int tome kicking in at 7, the extra points generally just go into open lock but you can put them wherever you like. As long as you end up with 23 ranks in the "primary" skills everything else is gravy. The primary skills being:

Search
Spot
Disable Device
UMD
Concentration
Heal

If you run into problems and can't quite get them all to 23 at level 20, skimp on heal. For my own personal skills table, which includes a previous life +2 int tome kicking in at level 7, it looks like the skill ranks normalize starting at level 10. Up to and including level 9, get all six primary skills listed above maxed. This means 12 ranks at level 9. Then from 10 on you put your 10 ranks in all six primary skills (1 rank each, total 8 skill points) plus 1 rank in open lock for a total of 10 skill points.

[Spero]

If you have a +2 int tome kicking in at 7, the extra points generally just go into open lock but you can put them wherever you like. As long as you end up with 23 ranks in the "primary" skills everything else is gravy. The primary skills being:

Search
Spot
Disable Device
UMD
Concentration
Heal

If you run into problems and can't quite get them all to 23 at level 20, skimp on heal. For my own personal skills table, which includes a previous life +2 int tome kicking in at level 7, it looks like the skill ranks normalize starting at level 10. Up to and including level 9, get all six primary skills listed above maxed. This means 12 ranks at level 9. Then from 10 on you put your 10 ranks in all six primary skills (1 rank each, total 8 skill points) plus 1 rank in open lock for a total of 10 skill points.

Thank you! I am looking forward to taking her out for a run!

[Cloista-motu]

EllisDee, you mentioned you struggled to get a 15Rgr/3Rog/2Ftr Split to work for you, this is what I've come up with for the new split for my main (currently 12Rgr/7Ftr/1Rog) , would be interested to see what you make of it:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Cloista 
Level 27 Neutral Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Ranger \ 7 Epic) 
Hit Points: 366
Spell Points: 185 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 6

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 27)           (Level 27)
Strength             18                 27                   27
Dexterity            12                 14                   14
Constitution         15                 17                   17
Intelligence         12                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma              8                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 27)          (Level 27)
Balance               5                 22                   29
Bluff                 3                  4                   11
Concentration         2                  3                   10
Diplomacy            -1                  0                    7
Disable Device        5                 25                   32
Haggle               -1                  0                    7
Heal                  1                 23                   30
Hide                  1                  2                    9
Intimidate           -1                  0                    7
Jump                  8                 18                   25
Listen               -1                  0                    7
Move Silently         1                  2                    9
Open Lock             5                  8                   15
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    9
Search                5                 25                   32
Spellcraft            1                  2                    9
Spot                  3                 23                   30
Swim                  n/a               n/a                  n/a
Tumble                5                  6                   13
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+5)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Dragon


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed

Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Double Shot

[EllisDee37]

EllisDee, you mentioned you struggled to get a 15Rgr/3Rog/2Ftr Split to work for you, this is what I've come up with for the new split for my main (currently 12Rgr/7Ftr/1Rog) , would be interested to see what you make of it:

A few thoughts:

I greatly prefer cure serious to cure moderate, and with the low will saves I find FOM to be a huge benefit. This generally means I'll always want at least 15 ranger levels (if taking more than 6 ranger levels) to get two level 4 spells.

As a general rule I prefer concentration to quicken, though if you're running EE you'll want quicken.

Why mobility and spring attack?