Tempest Trapmonkey for new players

[unbongwah]

IMO Know the Angles > Dimension Door
8 AP in to Harper for KtA

Remember we're still talking about the newbie-friendly version; Harper is P2P.

[EllisDee37]

I also have a hard time giving up Evasive Dance.

Agreed. I'd like to keep it but it's just so darn expensive, at 2 AP per rank. (Because I view Elaborate Parry, its prereq, as 100% completely worthless on a strength build, so those 3 AP do nothing but pay for evasive dance.)

Put it this way: If I did take Evasive Dance, I wouldn't even hotbar Elaborate Parry. But yeah, it's easy enough to fit in: Drop the kensei tree (switching tempest from sprint I to haste I), drop strength and saves boost from human tree and add in 1 AP to human somewhere else. (Awareness I, probably.) That's the 6 AP for evasive dance.

[Grailhawk]

Remember we're still talking about the newbie-friendly version; Harper is P2P.

There are newbie VIPs who will have it (vary small population of players I'm sure but they exist), and I did acknowledge they may not have it.

[EllisDee37]

There are newbie VIPs who will have it (vary small population of players I'm sure but they exist), and I did acknowledge they may not have it.

I view harper the same way I view monk, druid and warlock. Sure, a new player might be VIP, but if a build requires VIP I don't consider it a new player build.

[Kaezin]

I view harper the same way I view monk, druid and warlock. Sure, a new player might be VIP, but if a build requires VIP I don't consider it a new player build.

FWIW, I'm a newbie with VIP and I find it incredibly helpful when guides list both versions (which yours does, thanks!). Not only does it help me find a suitable build, but it helps me learn the relative worth of different enhancements.

[Spacey2000]

I would like to make a 3rd lifer tempest trapmonkey and i'm considering a deeper Artificer Splash. Since it isn't a f2p friendly build i posted a new thread with my questions here: Tempest Trapmonkey with Arti-Splash & Repeater?.
Help would be appreciated - thank you.

BTW: @ EllisDee : do you plan updating your build in the near future?

[MysticRhythms]

This is likely unrelated to this build because it's more of a question for a Dex-based build. Tempest Core II gives you the ability to use Scimitars as if they were light melee w2eapons (and eventually you get the Core II which lets you use Dex to hit with light melee weapons).

Now I tried my Dex-based build with Rapiers which are not listed as light melee weapons but are finessable. I was not getting my full Dex to-hit bonus until I took the Weapon Finesse feat on my build. Is Weapon Finesse needed for a Dex-based Scimitar build or does the combination of Tempest Core II/Core III allow you to skip Weapon Finesse?

I'd like to try switching to a Scimmy build with Dex so I can get a feat back at some point if I don't need Weapon Finesse with scimitars.

(For the record, mine is a pure Ranger 20)

[Grailhawk]

This is likely unrelated to this build because it's more of a question for a Dex-based build. Tempest Core II gives you the ability to use Scimitars as if they were light melee w2eapons (and eventually you get the Core II which lets you use Dex to hit with light melee weapons).

Now I tried my Dex-based build with Rapiers which are not listed as light melee weapons but are finessable. I was not getting my full Dex to-hit bonus until I took the Weapon Finesse feat on my build. Is Weapon Finesse needed for a Dex-based Scimitar build or does the combination of Tempest Core II/Core III allow you to skip Weapon Finesse?

I'd like to try switching to a Scimmy build with Dex so I can get a feat back at some point if I don't need Weapon Finesse with scimitars.

(For the record, mine is a pure Ranger 20)

You can use Improved Weapon Finesse from Stalker for Rapiers. But Tempest core 2 and 3 do not work on rapiers as it is not a light weapon. Just because the weapon is Finessable does not mean its light.

I wouldn't have expected Tempest Core 3 to work with Rapiers even if you have Weapon Finesse.

You do not need Weapon Finesse to use Improved Weapon Finesse but then you will use your STR for to-hit and DEX for damage you might be ok with that.

[MysticRhythms]

You can use Improved Weapon Finesse from Stalker for Rapiers. But Tempest core 2 and 3 do not work on rapiers as it is not a light weapon. Just because the weapon is Finessable does not mean its light.

I learned that the hard way.

I wouldn't have expected Tempest Core 3 to work with Rapiers even if you have Weapon Finesse.

It's possible that it isn't. I do also have the DWS Improved Weapon Finesse because I wanted Dex to damage with the bow. It might be that the rapiers are working only because of this.

You do not need Weapon Finesse to use Improved Weapon Finesse but then you will use your STR for to-hit and DEX for damage you might be ok with that.

I actually use Strength as a dump stat on my ranger. Also Intelligence, so KtA isn't useful on my build. I focus on using Dexterity as much as possible, so then things like Elaborate Parry are really useful on my build. I might be sacrificing some DPS this way (no Khopesh, no KtA) but it opens up a lot more of the defensive abilities that keep me alive a little easier. When I eTR, I may switch to scimitars or try out the build that uses KtA.

[unbongwah]

Is Weapon Finesse needed for a Dex-based Scimitar build

No. Finesse feat does nothing for scimitars: either you have lvl 3 Tempest core which provides DEX to-hit with scimitars; or you don't, in which case scimitars still count as regular weapons.

or does the combination of Tempest Core II/Core III allow you to skip Weapon Finesse?

Yes.

See my elven ranger thread.

[EllisDee37]

Updating the build, finally, for U29. This took as long as it did because I could never quite decide how I wanted to level the enhancements. I think I have it squared away now, mostly gearing it toward new players.

All told there are feat, enhancement and destiny changes. Here's the previous version:

Tempest Trapmonkey
18/1/1 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1  Rogue           6  Ranger         11  Ranger         16  Ranger
2  Ranger          7  Ranger         12  Ranger         17  Ranger
3  Ranger          8  Ranger         13  Ranger         18  Ranger
4  Fighter         9  Ranger         14  Ranger         19  Ranger
5  Ranger         10  Ranger         15  Ranger         20  Ranger


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     36pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       16       18       18       4: STR
Dexterity       14       14       14       14       8: STR
Constitution    14       16       14       15      12: STR
Intelligence    14       14       14       14      16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8        8      20: STR
Charisma         8        8        8        8      24: STR
                                                   28: STR

Skills
         Rg Rn Rn Fi Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   2  1  1     1  1  3  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1     1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4  1  1  ½  ½           1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  19
Balance   4                                                            4
Jump      4                                                            4
Haggle    4                                                            4
Heal      2                    1                                       3
Swim      3                                                            3
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         44  9  9  5  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9


Feats

 1        : Power Attack OR Point Blank Shot
 1 Human  : Least Dragonmark: Passage
 2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 3        : Cleave OR Precision
 4 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
 6        : Great Cleave OR Dodge
 7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
 9        : Improved Critical: Slashing
12        : Empower Healing Spell
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15        : Dodge OR Improved Critical: Range
17 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
18        : Precision OR Mobility
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Quicken Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Toughness


Spells

Resist Energy, Ram's Might, Jump, Merfolk's Blessing
Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Energy, Barkskin
Cure Moderate Wounds, Wild Instincts
Freedom of Movement, Cure Serious Wounds

Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (15 AP)
Damage Boost, Strength, Saves Boost
Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Skill Focus: Awareness I, Improved Recovery
Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door, Skill Focus: Nimble Fingers I
Skill Mastery, Improved Recovery
Tempest (46 AP)
Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind
Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost I
Whirling Blades, Strength
Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Strength
Evasive Dance III, Dance of Death III
Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
Stealthy III, Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy II
Kensei (4 AP)
Kensei Focus: Archery
Haste Boost III
Mechanic (4 AP)
Arbalester
Mechanics III

Leveling Guide
Damage Boost, Dragonmark Focus: Orien II (bank 1 AP)
Far Shot, Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy I
Empathic Healing II
Kensei Focus: Archery, Haste Boost I, Shield of Whirling Steel, Improved Reaction I
Whirling Blades, Improved Reaction II, Tempest
Improved Recovery, Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door
Sprint Boost I, Versatile Empathy II, Sneak Attack
Exposing Strike, Dragonmark Focus: Orien III, Skill Focus: Awareness I, Skill Focus: Nimble Fingers I
Skill Mastery, Heroism
Improved Recovery, Greater Heroism
Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost II
Whirling Blades, Improved Recovery
Reset All Trees
Human: Damage Boost, Strength
Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Skill Focus: Awareness III, Improved Recovery
Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door
Improved Recovery, Heroism
Greater Heroism
Deepwood Stalker: Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
Stealthy III, Increased Empathy III,Versatile Empathy II
Kensei Focus: Archery
Haste Boost III
Mechanic: Arbalester
Mechanics III
Tempest: Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death
Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry I, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost I
Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III
Deflect Arrows, Improved Dodge III
Strength, Whirling Blades
Elaborate Parry II, Evasive Dance II
Elaborate Parry III, Evasive Dance III, Improved Recovery
Strength, Extra Action Boost I
Reset All Trees

Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild
Tunnel Vision III, Primal Scream II, Constitution
Acute Instincts III, Constitution
<none>
Gird Against Demons I, Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury
Twists of Fate (6 fate points)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)

The enhancements are optimized to take advantage of useful options while leveling, then switched out as you level higher and the earlier bonuses are no longer needed. Specifically:

• Race to Empathic Healing in Deepwood Stalker by level 3 for early self-healing. This is dropped at level 13 when we get cure moderate wounds, saving 1 AP while gaining +1 sneak attack die.
• Take all three extra dragonmark uses for extra Expeditious Retreat clickies as we level. By level 13 we should have some sort of striding or speed item, so two of those AP are dropped to use for other things when we reset enhancements at 13.
• Race to Greater Heroism in the human tree by level 10 for assistance in trapping. This is kept throughout heroic leveling, then dropped at level 20 when we'll have enough UMD to switch over to GH scrolls, purchasable in the portable hole.

With thanks to Grailhawk for the blueprint, if you have access to the Harper tree my recommended changes for the final level 20 enhancement list are:

• Drop Saves boost and Skill Mastery from the human tree (saves 3 AP)
• Drop Sprint Boost and both Strengths from Tempest (saves 6 AP)
• Drop the Mechanic tree (saves 4 AP)

Spend that 13 AP in Harper as follows:

Harper (13 AP)
Core: Agent of Good
Tier 1: Harper Enchantment
Tier 1: Awareness II
Tier 2: Versatile Adept II
Tier 2: Know the Angles III
Tier 3: Know Your Foe
Tier 3: Versatile Adept I

It would be worth considering dropping the Human tree down to 7 AP (damage boost, extra dragonmarkx1, nimble fingersx1, healing ampx1, dimension door) to free up another 5 AP to spend in Harper. Specifically 4 more melee power from maxing out both versatile adept lines, plus a final point in Awareness for +1 saves vs traps.

[Grailhawk]

Tempest (46 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind
  
  1. Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost I
  3. Whirling Blades, Strength
  4. Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Strength
  5. Evasive Dance III, Dance of Death III

Something off here total says 46 but you only spent 37?
05 AP in Core
05 AP in Tier 1
09 AP in Tier 2
04 AP in Tier 3
08 AP in tier 4
06 AP in tier 5
37 AP total


Leaving Dual Perfection, A Thousand Cuts and tier 5 Whirling Blades really isn't a good idea. Also think that the Storm dance/tempest 2d6 electrical damage is a better investment of 4 ap then +2 to STR.

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
  
  1. Stealthy III, Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy II

I understand the appeal of the human stuff (D Door and extra healing amp) but you are taking those in place of Advanced Sneak Attack and Killer which isn't a good call IMO.

[EllisDee37]

Something off here total says 46 but you only spent 37?
05 AP in Core
05 AP in Tier 1
09 AP in Tier 2
04 AP in Tier 3
08 AP in tier 4
06 AP in tier 5
37 AP total


Leaving Dual Perfection, A Thousand Cuts and tier 5 Whirling Blades really isn't a good idea. Also think that the Storm dance/tempest 2d6 electrical damage is a better investment of 4 ap then +2 to STR.



I understand the appeal of the human stuff (D Door and extra healing amp) but you are taking those in place of Advanced Sneak Attack and Killer which isn't a good call IMO.

Not sure what you're looking at.

The enhancements listed in the OP do include Storm Dancer, Storm Tempest, Dual Perfection, A Thousand Cuts, Whirling Blades V, and Killer. I agree those are all must-haves, which is why I have them all. I also ony spend 41 AP in the tempest tree, not 46.

EDIT: Oh, now I see. You're looking at the old version, from before the ranger pass. Yes, I agree that the pre-ranger pass version is missing the good enhancements from the ranger pass. Seems an odd thing to point out, though.

The OP is the updated version. Post 271 is the old version, preserved for reference in case someone is in the middle of leveling.

[Grailhawk]

EDIT: Oh, now I see. You're looking at the old version, from before the ranger pass. Yes, I agree that the pre-ranger pass version is missing the good enhancements from the ranger pass. Seems an odd thing to point out, though.

The OP is the updated version. Post 271 is the old version, preserved for reference in case someone is in the middle of leveling.

Well that's embarrassing, my bad.

Totally miss read this sentence:

All told there are feat, enhancement and destiny changes. Here's the previous version:

[EllisDee37]

Well that's embarrassing, my bad.

Totally miss read this sentence:

No worries.

Any thoughts on how to squeeze in harper? I started to look, but then it felt like it would be a painful cutdown process and you were a big help doing that for the previous version.

EDIT: Also, feedback on the leveling guide for enhancements is welcome. I hit the new player concept hard, adding item defense (item wear was a huge issue for me as a new player) and hammering the trapping skills in the human tree while at the same time racing to all the tempest tier 5 goodness. It sacrifices deepwood stalker for heroics, but this seemed like the best way to keep a new player's trapping skills, dps and play experience high throughout heroics, then give them the oomph needed for epics @ 20.

[Grailhawk]

No worries.

Any thoughts on how to squeeze in harper? I started to look, but then it felt like it would be a painful cutdown process and you were a big help doing that for the previous version.

Twisting Hast Boost (Would give up Cocoon you have enough healing with CSW and CMW)

07 AP Human
Human Damage Boost
Lesser Dragonmarks
Improved Recovery
Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2 only)

That would get you 6 ap enough for tier 1 know the angles.

This would have some problems with sp points though as tier 1 KtA's is really expensive.

[Grailhawk]

EDIT: Also, feedback on the leveling guide for enhancements is welcome. I hit the new player concept hard, adding item defense (item wear was a huge issue for me as a new player) and hammering the trapping skills in the human tree while at the same time racing to all the tempest tier 5 goodness. It sacrifices deepwood stalker for heroics, but this seemed like the best way to keep a new player's trapping skills, dps and play experience high throughout heroics, then give them the oomph needed for epics @ 20.

Tempest tier 5 before Stalker is the right call. I would look to get tier 3 DoD before anything else.

[EllisDee37]

Twisting Hast Boost (Would give up Cocoon you have enough healing with CSW and CMW)

07 AP Human
Human Damage Boost
Lesser Dragonmarks
Improved Recovery
Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2 only)

That would get you 6 ap enough for tier 1 know the angles.

This would have some problems with sp points though as tier 1 KtA's is really expensive.

Well, not everyone sees the same value in DDoor as I do, so conceivably the final human tree split could be whittled down to 3 AP: Damage Boost and Improved Recovery. (Note that I consider it huge for brand new players, as I recall stressing about "points of no return" in quests when I was new.) So keep DDoor for leveling, then drop it at 20. That would save 6 AP.

Then drop kensei, switch tempest action boost from sprint to haste and kick it up to rank III. That's a net +2 AP, for a total of 8 to spend in Harper.

8 AP in Harper is perfect, yes?

Core: Agent of Good
Tier 1: Harper Enchantment, Toughness II
Tier 2: Know the Angles III

How does that look?

[Grailhawk]

Well, not everyone sees the same value in DDoor as I do, so conceivably the final human tree split could be whittled down to 3 AP: Damage Boost and Improved Recovery. (Note that I consider it huge for brand new players, as I recall stressing about "points of no return" in quests when I was new.) So keep DDoor for leveling, then drop it at 20. That would save 6 AP.

Then drop kensei, switch tempest action boost from sprint to haste and kick it up to rank III. That's a net +2 AP, for a total of 8 to spend in Harper.

8 AP in Harper is perfect, yes?

Core: Agent of Good
Tier 1: Harper Enchantment, Toughness II
Tier 2: Know the Angles III

How does that look?

That looks like how I run my ranger. 43 Tempest (all tier 5 + capstone), 26 Stalker (Advanced Sneak Attack, Killer, and Survivalist III), 8 Harper (KtA) and 3 Human.

Since I run Dreadnought instead of Fury these days I take 3 ranks of Sprint boost, and use LD Hast Boost. (really nice being able to chain sprint boots do to Action Hero)

[Daliena]

Got a bit of a question.. A friend of mine wants me to make a character to play with his wizard, and I've wanted to try ranger for a while now, much to my delight finding this build as trapping capability would certainly help out.

The thing is, I'm curious about the str vs dex thing.. I have a rather amateurish understanding of DDO admittedly, but the gist of it seems to be offense vs defense in terms of what it focuses on, respectively. To elaborate, strength grabs khopeshes (A better weapon overall as I understand it?) along with benefiting from Ram's Strength for +2 strength, while a dex version of this can't compete by taking the capstone due to not going to level 20 ranger. On the other hand, improved reflex saves, the possibility for improved evasion mimicry by Evasive Dance and having stat points to spend on other things than upping both str and dex as the OP does.

This is, at least, my basic understanding of it. What I would like to ask (Of anyone who's willing to answer but of Ellisdee and Unbongwah in particular) is how you folks think these two builds compare, assuming 32pt builds and no tomes beyond the +2 from favor. (Possibly a +6 constitution as I try to think long-term and what class doesn't love some constitution so I tend towards purchasing those from the DDO store, and while I would -love- to try and buy a +2 int tome for in-game currency there's an irritating tendency for only +1's to appear on the auction house/shard exchange whenever I remember to look so I can't even guesstimate as to whether or not I could afford one. But I'm rambling.)

And yes, I saw Unbongwah's dex-elf build on page 13, hence why I thought to ask further about the concept and compare the two. Personal bias tempts me towards scimitars but I do want to know a bit more before I go ahead with that decision if possible. Thanks in advance for any advice.