Tempest Trapmonkey for new players

[Emizand]

I've been wondering if it makes sense to drop the cleaves altogether anyway, but I'm hesitant to change this build yet again since it's gone through two changes in the last few months. The basic idea would be to drop power attack and both cleaves, and take precision at level 3 (requires BAB 1). That frees up three feats, making room for PBS, improved crit: ranged, and one other. Maybe mobility?

Even with dance of death, I do still use my cleaves on this guy, so I don't think it's clearly better. But the thought is there.

Am toying with the idea of 1arti, 3 barb, 16 ranger. Depends how barb changes pan out, but 3 x healing amp and supreme cleave are going to be tight on APs. Could be nice if I can balance though.

[Horza]

I've been wondering if it makes sense to drop the cleaves altogether anyway, but I'm hesitant to change this build yet again since it's gone through two changes in the last few months. The basic idea would be to drop power attack and both cleaves, and take precision at level 3 (requires BAB 1). That frees up three feats, making room for PBS, improved crit: ranged, and one other. Maybe mobility?

Even with dance of death, I do still use my cleaves on this guy, so I don't think it's clearly better. But the thought is there.

Ellis, isn't the "problem" here that the build could jump off in several different directions? As a new player build this is a good starting point for the directions Tempest builds can go, and what those builds are looking for in their splashes/feats. You have one post reserved at the top, maybe use it to discuss the different directions it can be taken?

I'm still looking at all the possibilities that using Artificer could open up. 1 Arty level is fine, but 2 gives me Runearms. But if I go to 4 I get a bonus feat that lets me pick up BSwds instead of Khopesh, letting me drop the fighter level entirely, and pick up Flurry at 5. Which means I can switch to a Juggernaut playstyle of Flurry/Manyshot/CleavingBswds. I'd really miss the Reconstruct though, and there's always the INT-based build to think about...

Similarly there is your variation where you shift the balance to Ranged. If you do, then it makes sense to mention the Longbow of Earth from the challenges. You would shift to looking for CC from the Manyshotted StonePrison effect on it rather than the Paralyzing Cleaves the Water Khopeshes give you. (NB I think that's the main argument against dropping cleave on this build - reduced CC while levelling).

Then there are the other TWF variants you could look at - take Drow, switch to shortswords, swap Fighter to a deeper Monk splash and go centred. Halfling would give you access to Heals from the Dragonmark. The possibilities are near endless though - maybe just link to decent examples so new players can see how things work.

[Nodoze]

Good discussions. Remember that for New Players the F2P classes should be kept in consideration and likely have priority. I think Rogue is a good starting point for many folk though listing variants and/or jumping off points does add value...

[EllisDee37]

While updating the output format, technically no changes were made. I did add an optional range dps feat progression to the OP, but the default feats list is the same as it is here:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Tempest Trapmonkey
Level 28 Human
(18 Ranger / 1 Rogue / 1 Fighter / 8 Epic) 

Abilities          28pt    32pt    34pt    36pt
Strength            16      16      18      18
Dexterity           14      14      14      14
Constitution        14      16      14      15
Intelligence        14      14      14      14
Wisdom               8       8       8       8
Charisma             8       8       8       8

Skills              Ranks
Concentration        23
Search               23
Spot                 23
Disable Device       23
UMD                  23
Open Lock            19
Jump                  4
Balance               4
Haggle                4
Heal                  3
Swim                  3
Tumble                1

Feats
 1 : Power Attack
 1H: Least Dragonmark of Passage
 3 : Cleave
 4F: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
 6 : Great Cleave
 9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
12 : Empower Healing Spell
15 : Dodge
18 : Precision
21E: Overwhelming Critical
24E: Quicken Spell
26E: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27E: Blinding Speed
28E: Toughness

Favored Enemy
 2: Favored Enemy: Undead
 7: Favored Enemy: Construct
12: Favored Enemy: Giant
17: Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

Fury of the Wild
Primal Scream II
Tunnel Vision III
Acute Instincts III
Constitution II
Gird Against Demons I
Overwhelming Force III
Sense Weakness III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury
Twist 1: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 2: Brace For Impact
Twist 3: Extra Action Boost

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Core: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus II
Enhancement: (Save last point for spending 5 AP on level 2)

Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker Core: Far Shot
Enhancement: DS1: Increased Empathy I
Enhancement: DS1: Increased Empathy II
Enhancement: DS1: Increased Empathy III
Enhancement: DS1: Versatile Empathy I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: DS2: Empathic Healing I
Enhancement: DS2: Empathic Healing II


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Archery Focus
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Tempest Core: Shield of Whirling Steel
Enhancement: Tempest1: Improved Reaction I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Tempest1: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tempest1: Improved Reaction II
Enhancement: Tempest Core: Tempest


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Human1: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Human2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Tempest2: Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: DS1: Versatile Empathy II
Enhancement: DS Core: Sneak Attack


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Enhancement: DS Core: Exposing Strike
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Enhancement: Human1: Awareness I
Enhancement: Human2: Nimble Fingers I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human3: Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Human3: Heroism


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Human3: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Human4: Greater Heroism


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Tempest1: Improved Reaction III
Enhancement: Tempest2: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost II


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Spell (2): Protection from Energy
Enhancement: Tempest3: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Human4: Improved Recovery


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Reset All Trees
Human (17 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Core: Strength
Enhancement: Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Tier 1: Awareness III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Enhancement: Tier 3: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Tier 3: Heroism
Enhancement: Tier 4: Greater Heroism
Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Far Shot
Enhancement: Core: Sneak Attack
Enhancement: Core: Exposing Strike
Enhancement: Tier 1: Stealthy III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Increased Empathy III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Versatile Empathy II
Kensei (4 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Archery Focus
Enhancement: Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Mechanic (4 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Arbalester
Enhancement: Tier 1: Mechanics III
Tempest (12+4 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Shield of Whirling Steel
Enhancement: Core: Tempest
Enhancement: Core: Graceful Death
Enhancement: Tier 1: Improved Reaction III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 2: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 2: Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Tempest3: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Parry I


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Wild Instincts
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Parry II
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Parry III


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Tempest Core: Deflect Arrows
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Dodge I
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Dodge II
Enhancement: Tempest2: Improved Dodge III


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Tempest3: Strength
Enhancement: Tempest4: Whirling Blades


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Enhancement: Tempest4: Elaborate Parry I
Enhancement: Tempest4: Elaborate Parry II
Enhancement: Tempest5: Evasive Dance I
Enhancement: Tempest5: Evasive Dance II


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Spell (2): Barkskin
Enhancement: Tempest4: Elaborate Parry III
Enhancement: Tempest5: Evasive Dance III
Enhancement: Tempest4: Strength or Human4: Improved Recovery


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human4: Improved Recovery or Tempest4: Strength
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost I


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Reset All Trees
Human (15 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Core: Strength
Enhancement: Core: Saves Boost
Enhancement: Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Tier 1: Awareness I
Enhancement: Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Enhancement: Tier 2: Nimble Fingers I
Enhancement: Tier 3: Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Tier 3: Improved Recovery
Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Far Shot
Enhancement: Core: Sneak Attack
Enhancement: Core: Exposing Strike
Enhancement: Tier 1: Stealthy III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Increased Empathy III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Versatile Empathy II
Kensei (4 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Archery Focus
Enhancement: Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Mechanic (4 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Arbalester
Enhancement: Tier 1: Mechanics III
Tempest (46 AP)
Enhancement: Core: Shield of Whirling Steel
Enhancement: Core: Tempest
Enhancement: Core: Graceful Death
Enhancement: Core: Deflect Arrows
Enhancement: Core: Whirlwind
Enhancement: Tier 1: Improved Reaction III
Enhancement: Tier 1: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 2: Improved Parry III
Enhancement: Tier 2: Improved Dodge III
Enhancement: Tier 2: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 2: Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Tier 3: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 3: Strength
Enhancement: Tier 4: Elaborate Parry III
Enhancement: Tier 4: The Growing Storm III
Enhancement: Tier 4: Whirling Blades
Enhancement: Tier 4: Strength
Enhancement: Tier 5: Evasive Dance III
Enhancement: Tier 5: Dance of Death III


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic Destiny: Toughness

<End of build>

[Bill_Jones]

Question: Greater Heroism or Dance of Death?

I can understand why Dance of Death is good -- striking multiple opponents for 10 seconds -- but I shifted the AP from that to the Greater Heroism line to increase my Search & Disable Device. Even with decent gear (+6 INT, +15 Search) I wasn't finding some trap boxes on Epic Hard.

I am on a F2P account, so Planar Gird would be great, but I don't want to "waste" what little plat I have on scrolls.

Is the dps from Dance of Death better than Greater Heroism if I have to choose one or the other, at least for a while?

[Bill_Jones]

Good discussions. Remember that for New Players the F2P classes should be kept in consideration and likely have priority. I think Rogue is a good starting point for many folk though listing variants and/or jumping off points does add value...

Absolutely. Without tomes, Green Steel hit point items, greater/superior false life and other HP increasing items, elite traps can hurt lots when you run a F2P account.
Up to +30% xp bonus for traps is a good thing as well.

[Grailhawk]

Is the dps from Dance of Death better than Greater Heroism if I have to choose one or the other, at least for a while?

DoD is the right choice, just pick up 2-3 GH scrolls and save them for the really nasty traps if you are plat tight.

[unbongwah]

Question: Greater Heroism or Dance of Death?

Why is it a dichotomy? 37 APs for DoD + Whirlwind and 17 APs for Gtr Heroism still leaves 26 APs to spread around. Everything else is negotiable.

EDIT: if you're asking which to prioritize before you have at least 54 APs...well, that's up to you.

[EllisDee37]

Question: Greater Heroism or Dance of Death?

I can understand why Dance of Death is good -- striking multiple opponents for 10 seconds -- but I shifted the AP from that to the Greater Heroism line to increase my Search & Disable Device. Even with decent gear (+6 INT, +15 Search) I wasn't finding some trap boxes on Epic Hard.

I am on a F2P account, so Planar Gird would be great, but I don't want to "waste" what little plat I have on scrolls.

Is the dps from Dance of Death better than Greater Heroism if I have to choose one or the other, at least for a while?

It's not hard to fit in Greater Heroism without sacrificing Dance of Death. The most obvious choice would be to drop the 2 strength from the tempest tree, saving 4 AP, and then spending those 4 AP on Heroism + Greater Heroism.

The build as written spends 15 AP in the human tree, already satisfying the tier 4 requirements.

If your strength is odd, drop one strength and one whirling blades.

EDIT: if you're asking which to prioritize before you have at least 54 APs...well, that's up to you.

For me, Greater Heroism is the no-brainer in that scenario. Below level 18, traps and skill checks are a much bigger worry than mobs because heroic mobs are pretty weak. (The build is written this way, actually, taking Greater Heroism at 10 and Dance of Death at 20.)

[MysticRhythms]

I've recently necroed some of my old "back when cap was 16" builds and at the time I had aDrow Tempest with W/P Rapiers. If I managed to salvage her with this idea of yours, would it make more sense for me to stick with my rapiers and max Dex instead of Strength taking advantage of the Tempest Core enhancements of Tempest/Graceful Death?

[unbongwah]

I've recently necroed some of my old "back when cap was 16" builds and at the time I had aDrow Tempest with W/P Rapiers. If I managed to salvage her with this idea of yours, would it make more sense for me to stick with my rapiers and max Dex instead of Strength taking advantage of the Tempest Core enhancements of Tempest/Graceful Death?

In order to get DEX to dmg with rapiers on a Tempest, you need to take the Finesse feat, otherwise they don't count as light weapons.

[MysticRhythms]

In order to get DEX to dmg with rapiers on a Tempest, you need to take the Finesse feat, otherwise they don't count as light weapons.

I likely have Weapon Finesse on that character. Assuming I do or just assume I use short swords on a drow ... does it still make more sense to amp up the DEX in my version of the build? This would free up some build points and possibly open up a slightly different array of feats.

[EllisDee37]

Either way, I would definitely stick with rapiers.

The downside to dex to damage for drows using rapiers is that you gimp your range option; the only way to get dex to damage on a bow is to be an elf. So your rapier would be dex to damage, but your shortbow would still be strength to damage.

I bring this up because I was going to say "Sure, drop the cleave line, take the alternate range feats listed in the OP, then take weapon finesse instead of dodge, moving dodge later to replace mobility."

But then I realized that this would be "maximizing" your range dps with feats while at the same time dumping strength, which would nerf your range dps into the ground.

[MysticRhythms]

Either way, I would definitely stick with rapiers.

The downside to dex to damage for drows using rapiers is that you gimp your range option; the only way to get dex to damage on a bow is to be an elf. So your rapier would be dex to damage, but your shortbow would still be strength to damage.

I bring this up because I was going to say "Sure, drop the cleave line, take the alternate range feats listed in the OP, then take weapon finesse instead of dodge, moving dodge later to replace mobility."

But then I realized that this would be "maximizing" your range dps with feats while at the same time dumping strength, which would nerf your range dps into the ground.

I guess the other option would be to dip into Harper and skip it all and just go Int to damage and then take insightful Reflexes to keep your Reflex save high enough for traps. It would require 12 total points spent in Harper though likely more because now you aren't going to be raising your Dex with enhancements much anymore.

Hrm ... this might be a fun alternative since Drow do get +2 to Int and it would make the trapping skills much better.

[EllisDee37]

I guess the other option would be to dip into Harper and skip it all and just go Int to damage and then take insightful Reflexes to keep your Reflex save high enough for traps. It would require 12 total points spent in Harper though likely more because now you aren't going to be raising your Dex with enhancements much anymore.

Hrm ... this might be a fun alternative since Drow do get +2 to Int and it would make the trapping skills much better.

Even if it ends up being suboptimal, it sounds super fun to try. I encourage you to give int to damage a shot and report back how it goes.

[MysticRhythms]

Even if it ends up being suboptimal, it sounds super fun to try. I encourage you to give int to damage a shot and report back how it goes.

It's not like it's something I couldn't undo anyway. It's a first-lifer. Then maybe Shiradi Champion ends up being a slightly better ED choice or just say screw it and try Fury anyway. It's not like your build took more Strength points from the Fury tree.

I was looking at a third option of reincarnating into Elf and following the same path.

Yet a 4th option would be to ditch ranged attacks altogether anyway (i.e. not care about Bow Strength).

[Caprice]

If you are going INT based and have access to the Artificer class, you might consider going Artificer 1 instead of Rogue 1. You lose:

• 1d6 Sneak Attack,
• the Mechanic enhancement (= 3 DD/OL/Repair and +3 Saves vs traps), and
• 2 skill points

You gain:

• a large boost to Spellpoints: 50 from Artificer 1, 80 from the granted Magical Training feat, and 10 * your INT bonus as a bonus (so ~200 immediately and ~300-400 @28),
• Magical Training also grants Echoes of Power so you'll never run out of Spellpoints for Cocoon & Cures,
• +2 UMD and +1 CL for scrolls,
• a free lever-puller you can summon anywhere in a dungeon for soloing purposes (but it will be level 1 you won't want to use it for anything else, ever),
• the Enchant Weapon spell for an additional +1 attack/damage and +3 spellpower, and
• a few other spells and feats you don't really care about.

It isn't a no brainer choice over Rogue but I prefer it personally. The Artificer enhancements are pretty useless, but you can get the weaker version it has of Mechanic to soften that loss ("Field Engineer") or spent the 4 elsewhere (e.g. Fighter Extra Action Boost).

There are some discussions of similar INT-based Ranger builds in this thread.

[unbongwah]

Another advantage to an arty splash is you get repeater profs, which are better DPS than bows for quite a while if you have Harper for INT-to-dmg.

[Caprice]

Another advantage to an arty splash is you get repeater profs, which are better DPS than bows for quite a while if you have Harper for INT-to-dmg.

True. I discounted those feats in my post but I guess in reality the 2 repeater proficiencies plus the free Rapid Reload feat granted by Arty make repeaters a strong DPS option on that version.

At least now I have an appealing build idea for how I might TR my own Artificer to stack some Ranger PL passives.

[CPDK9]

Two questions on the build:

Will your disable & open be enough to get you through epic normal?

With recent updates would you consider at times switching to heavy armor (losing evasion, but gaining PRR/MRR)?