Shiradi Shuricannon

[jakeelala]

@DethTrip: Yes Precision works with shuriken. The reason i did not choose it is that you cannot have Combat Expertise and Precision active at the same time and Precision does not work with Bulwark of Defense (which gives more AC and saves) since it does not count as defensive stance. The Shuricannon was built for defense and tanking from the beginning because of the synergy of high WIS and DEX and all the inherent monk bonuses to AC and because of Ki Shout and high damage for Intimidate or Hate tanking.
.

At the risk of being flamed, CE brings almost nothing to a thrower build, and precision is extremely important, especially considering your crit range and the sources of SA damage you have. This is a very DPS limiting decision you've made. For a build that is mobile, and attacks from ranged.

[Firewall]

(...)Moreover, if BaB at 30 follows the trend of BaB 1-25, then you will not have a capped throw rate at lvl 30 without 30 BaB.(...)

You already say it: IF!

Fact is there is no indication that BAB 30 will increase the attack speed whatsoever above the current hardcap. Your own tests indicate that it will not - more likely than that it will - and it makes no sense to speculate anyway.

As i said it is now easier to get enough UMD to use Tenser's scrolls if needed. In fact every bonus that you listed as an advantage (Tenser's, Displacement, defensive spells) can easily be copied by investing some into UMD and clickies and add it to the Shuricannons abilities while no monk multiclass build can copy vorpal, +2 crit range, highest run speed etc. that is unique to a pure monk build. Max BAB is not unique to multiclass builds and most multiclass builds will be even weaker when they fix Shadow Dodge while Shuricannons become stronger with the fix to Sting of the Ninja, Level 30 cap and changes to AC.

In your damage calculations you ignore Dragon's Edge completely which is also a lot of damage on crits (and the bleeding damage on crit does not work on an offhand weapon). And of course the shuricannon can switch to Mortal Fear shuriken when needed but a lot of bosses take damage from bleeding and/or fire (Stormhorns, Shadow Dragon, FOT, GH Tor, lots of quest endbosses, 3BC, Undead in general, all fleshies) or even vulnerable to fire like e.g. the endboss in Trial by Fire or Ice creatures. If that is the wrong tactic it is easy to switch to a Dragon's Edge with Mortal Fear shuriken (which is not universal either because e.g. Helmed Horrors are healed by force damage). Essentially Crippling Flames gives a great damage boost to undead through the high fire damage where shuriken builds are usually weaker against and much more damage to non-fire immune bosses. Maybe you should go back and play an actual Shuricannon build instead of only doing math to see for yourself how powerful and widely usable Crippling Flames and Dragon's Edge really are.

What you again did not take into account also was the Seeker boosted damage you get from crits (where in my earlier calculation i even forgot the exceptional Seeker bonus).


Multiclass builds have to sacrifice DPS in form of AP and a feat to come even close to the crit range by going halfling so they actually don't benefit as much from that. Also they are way more dependant on Sneak Attack damage while the shuricannon does most of its damage at full range without necessarily needing to bypass fortification.

AC is quite valuable especially when soloing for a build that heals with Cocoon. The benefit that the shuricannon can easily work as a tank adds to it. And as the Devs announced AC will be even more valuable in EE quests in the future.

What you sacrifice by not taking Precision is only 15% of the basedamage portion of crits and of 15% of SA damage which is not as important and high for Shuricannons as for multiclass builds and ONLY against VERY HIGH fortification mobs. It does not limit base damage, on-crit damage, vorpal and all shiradi procs and weapon and item effects.
But everybody can play as they want so the shuricannon also offers the possibility to easily take Precision and Greater DEX as a variation as i already said in the earlier post. The variant with CE and Bulwark of Defense is only my preferred and also quite powerful version. I already said DPS is not everything that makes a build shine like you constantly want to make people believe.

As always you see only what you want to see and take only into account what fits your purpose.

[jakeelala]

Every update, every level cap increase, every single time, BaB in increments of 5 increase rate of attack.

There is no indication that a move to 30 would be any different.

It's very hard for a Shuricannon without all ePL's and and hPL's to hit consistent UMD for Tensors, and even then it wastes time to scroll the buff. What it amounts to is you basically just can't get the buff, the time you have is degraded by the time taken to scroll it consistently. Try for yourself and see.

You build also requires Blinding Speed, which means you miss out on Epic Reflex, which is VERY powerful. It's basically blanket immunity from Reflex based damage/effects. Rolling 1's happens, consistently about 5% of the time.

I ignore Dragons Edge because I usually use it off hand, in favor of another slot for a damage Augment that affects more mobs, like lvl 28 2-12 Aug or Meteoric or Level Drain on Vorpal.

I didnt forget Seeker, alternate builds just end up getting very close to the same benefit as your build.

Seeker 15-20x2: 12+5 Exp = 17 on a crit = 34 per crit. You crit about 27% of the time = 9.18 Seeker Damage/Throw

Seeker 17-20x2: 12+5Exp = 17 on a crit = 34 per crit I crit about 18% of the time = 6.12 Seeker Damage/Throw

That's less than 1 SA die.

Moreover, Halfling is in NO WAY a waste of AP. Everything in the tree you take for the crit range is useful, unlike Ninja Spy which has a lot of stuff that is not to spend 40 points in the tree. You are in fact wasting AP points.

Halfling Gives:
3 SA Dice
2 Dex
+1W when sneaking (or bluffing with Deception/Imp Deception).
+3 to ALL Save

This is far more useful PER Ap than Ninja Spy going to Capstone.

I'm not trying to denigrate your build, I am however trying to objectively explain to everyone where it stands versus other builds. Pervious to U22, it was vastly inferior to multiclass builds. Post-U22, as I have demonstrated in lots of math, on Paper, it is now approaching a similar power curve on a DPS basis.

Defensively I feel it's lacking some things like Perma Displace, Epic Reflexes, Arcane Buffs, UMD, and PRR, etc.

My point is not that it's a bad build, my point is that it is not stand out among the options for throwing builds, especially if those builds utilize Halflings exceptional Racial tree for thrower builds, despite what you keep trying to tell people.

Anyone can play a character well or poorly no matter how optimized or good the equipment is. However, objectively speaking, nothing I have written about any builds is untrue. It's just a reality you have to face when looking at thrower builds.

The only thrower build I'm unreasonably attached to is the one that plays the best.

Currently, having run your Shuricannon build, and about 15 others, right now that's either:

Halfling
9Monk/6Wizard/5Rogue (Imp Evasion, More SP, longer Buffs)
or
9Rogue/6Monk/5Wiz (More SA, less defense)

That's just the way it is. There's nothing wrong with a Shuricannon, it's great at throwing stars and now as of U22 has competitive DPS, which is decidedly did NOT previously. They way you build it, it apparently has high AC, which doesn't really mean anything because anywhere AC matters now (EH and below) incoming damage is largely irrelevant and avoidable anyway. Maybe that will change, but it hasn't yet, and we're talking about Turbine here.

But it is not the highest DPS, nor is it the most survivable. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it also doesn't mean that I'm wrong.

[Firewall]

As i said. You only see what you want to see. I never said the Shuricannon was better in DPS or whatever than another build. I just list pros and cons, claimed in many posts that DPS is not everything and even said

post #549

I'm actually getting a bit tired of you constantly claiming my build would be so much worse than others. My build is quite viable and popular and really good at what it does as its users have confirmed many times. And it is still getting better and is absolutely at least on eye-level with other thrower builds. Other builds have other strengths and weaknesses so let's simply leave it at that.

In fact it was you who claimed your build had

- better DPS and defenses
see post #548

But most importantly, The DPS was never the true gulf between a shuricannon or multiclass thrower (well, it was, but it isn't now, they're roughly equal). The gulf, nee Chasm, between the two is Defensive.

- better AC
post #550

You can lead a horse to water...and my ac is higher.

and post #552

Its higher from my Dex, and from the EK tree. Somewhere between 15 and 20 pts higher.

and whatever (which proved wrong).


And more importantly you consistently claim that i am giving bad information (which i am not) and nitpick on every piece of information i give to help other players.
post #515

Incorrect. (...) Highest DPS offhand for non level drain immune would be Epic Envenomed for Enervation on your Shuriken (...)

(Where in fact i was right that it did not work)

post #548

This is not objectively true. (...) So don't give new players to throwers bad information please.

post #550

You can lead a horse to water...and my ac is higher.

(Which i proved it is not)

post #556

I'm done arguing with you, you just don't seem to understand math.

post #580

Everyone making shuriken builds needs to understand that. Even Firewall.

...and other posts

where in fact you don't give accurate information by ignoring or belittleing DPS, defense and other contributions that do not fit into your scheme. There is nothing objective about that.


I won't go in on the details of your DPS wall of text again but

- BAB and attack speed for throwers had never reached the hardcap before. And so far all sources cannot bypass it.

- Interestingly we had the UMD discussion in this thread here already and it was you that tried to convince me how easy it is to make use of it and how high the benefit of Tenser's scrolls would be. Now high UMD is really a lot easier to get without much item switching and the nice thing is you can have all benefits of Tenser's ON TOP of every advantage the Shuricannon has if you want it even if it is only active 70+% of the time (and you won't believe me but i actually do have tried it).

- Actually you don't have permanent Displacement either and GS Displacement clickies (CL16) last longer than your extended CL5 spells without draining spellpoints. Same goes for buffs which one can even cast from high CL pots or wands (Shield 10th, Blur 10th (if you dont have it permanently on items), Resists 11th, Prot. from Energy 10th...), Jump Clickies, Invis Clickies, GH clickies (all easy to get from Shavarath or Planar Gird),...
With the high Shuricannon AC giving benefit of something between permanent Blur and Displacement depending on the level of EE content which i already calculated here in a post you don't even need Displacement with a Shuricannon but can get it on top.

- And actually my build does not 'require' Blinding Speed. I already said you can use Pots, clickies, Tensers and whatever and as well use Epic Reflexes (see my post #575). I just suggest my preferred variant and my reasons for going there. People can decide for themselves what they like best and as i have stated many times the Shuricannon has lots of room for customization.


Having seen DethTrip's post #573 i would ask you again to please keep your trolling and advertising of your build to other posts. If to you this means this thread is more about blind faith than good sense i prefer blind faith.

Thank you.

[DethTrip]

@DethTrip: Yes Precision works with shuriken. The reason i did not choose it is that you cannot have Combat Expertise and Precision active at the same time and Precision does not work with Bulwark of Defense (which gives more AC and saves) since it does not count as defensive stance. The Shuricannon was built for defense and tanking from the beginning because of the synergy of high WIS and DEX and all the inherent monk bonuses to AC and because of Ki Shout and high damage for Intimidate or Hate tanking.

Most mobs even in epics don't have much fortification (except for undead and constructs) and since in endgame you will have Dragon's Edge on your TF shuriken anyway and on-crit damage applies regardless of fortification you only miss 15% of base damage criticals and sneak attack damage (but still apply all proc damage) on mobs with fortification higher than 40% (higher than 60% if you also use upgraded Rebellion in your offhand) and the Shuricannon does not rely much on SA damage anyway.
If you still want to go more into DPS you can drop AC altogether (because you won't be able to go above the threshold of viable EE AC anymore) and switch CE and Bulwark of Defense for Precision and something else.

Regarding Blinding Speed i see an increase in attack speed when taking it and so far i would also take it for convenience with running speed, dodge and reflex save increase but of course Epic Reflexes is a good alternative and you can still use Haste pots or clickies and UMD Tenser's scrolls for max BAB if you want.

I knew you couldn't use an offensive and defense stance at the same time but I forgot you took combat expertise. I think with the crit range now working properly, I would probably go with precision over CE. Feats can always be swapped out again as long as you meet the requirements of course. Sounds like blinding speed is still a must have then. Thank you for your detailed reply.

[Firewall]

I knew you couldn't use an offensive and defense stance at the same time but I forgot you took combat expertise. I think with the crit range now working properly, I would probably go with precision over CE. Feats can always be swapped out again as long as you meet the requirements of course. Sounds like blinding speed is still a must have then. Thank you for your detailed reply.

Yes both options are viable now that the crit range is fixed.

Blinding Speed is not really a must have. The damage is so insane right now especially with TF shuriken that you won't notice the small difference in attack speed much. You can test the difference yourself quickly by changing to Divine Crusader which gives your character level to BAB as lvl 0 core ability and see if it is worth it for you.

If you want to collect Divine Karma or like to run in DC anyway Blinding Speed is only for running speed, +1 Dodge and +1 Reflex. You can also drop that bit of DPS for Epic Reflexes or if you have UMD high enough and don't mind scrolling Tenser's or use Haste pots (CL 15 even come in Daily Dice rolls) you don't even need to be in DC.

There is always a defensive way to build a shuricannon and an offensive variant. Just choose what you like best and complements your playstyle. Damage, defense and fun factor are great in any way.

[Xirxx]

So I started a char with this exact build in mind. This is a first life character and I have been gone for quite a while - my highest chars were maxed at level 14.
I am having some issues with survivability and the damage doesn't seem to be high at all. Takes me forever to kill something. I currently have snowstar. Is this build not for solo first lifers?

I am in the process of reading the whole thread but I will also post my gear so I can get some advice.

Thanks!

[Firewall]

So I started a char with this exact build in mind. This is a first life character and I have been gone for quite a while - my highest chars were maxed at level 14.
I am having some issues with survivability and the damage doesn't seem to be high at all. Takes me forever to kill something. I currently have snowstar. Is this build not for solo first lifers?

I am in the process of reading the whole thread but I will also post my gear so I can get some advice.

Thanks!

If you use the Snowstar you should be at least level 8 by now and if you followed the build should have Rapid Shot and Quick Draw already along with Shuriken Expertise from Drow and the 2nd Ninja Spy core enhancement. If you have the highest possible DEX and Deadly item you should see up to three damage lines per attack animation with good damage when you are centered and run in wind stance.

This build can be done on a first life character and if you read the thread from the start some people have done so (like Spencerian who even wrote in his blog about it) but of course the performance will be much lower especially if you don't have ship buffs and tomes available as well as some crafted shuriken and specific gear. Leveling is a bit harder now because Sting of the Ninja does not work with named or crafted shuriken since Update 21 but still you should be fine. A thrower Character always needs some preparation since good returning shuriken, offhand weapons and things like the Frozen Tunic and other stuff are a bit hard to come by.

Your highest survivability bonus is being a ranged character. In quests you have to attack monsters from far away with high viewing distance and a good spot value to have the advantage and if they come close you have to kite/circle kite them. It is also a good advice to find high spots or safe spots where monsters cannot reach you easily and shoot them down. The build shines the most in open areas and quests with high viewing distance. With the high DEX and WIS you should have a good AC value and since level 7 you have Wholeness of Body to heal you in between fights if needed. The higher your BAB and your DEX become the better your damage will be. Especially DEX is by far the biggest factor while leveling. You also probably need to buy/craft some DR breaking shuriken before you can start using Eveningstar Challenge shuriken from lvl 16 on. Gear is probably the biggest problem if you experience a low performance.

The real boost of course will come in epic levels with Shiradi Procs, Whirling Wrists, extended crit range and vorpal and all that stuff. If you read through the early pages of the thread you will find some posts on low level gear (e.g. post #48) and some more insights what is needed for maximum performance of the build.

[Xirxx]

I appreciate the information - if you have time and can give me a few recommendations on my current gear that would be great: - Thanks!

Level 11 almost 12

Head - Founders Helm
Neck - Angers Wrath
Trinket - Dusk Heart/Voice of master
Cloak - Natural Armor +4
Belt - Dex +3/Planar Girdx2
Ring - Fort 40%
Ring - Seeker 3
Gloves - Speed 5
Feet - Angers Step
Wrist - Feather Falling bracers of speed 2
Chest - +5 Frostproof of Vitality
Eyes - Resistance +1

Weapons - Snowstar, +2 Acid Kama of Ghostbane

STR 7
DEX 28
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 10

[Firewall]

I appreciate the information - if you have time and can give me a few recommendations on my current gear that would be great: - Thanks!

Level 11 almost 12

Head - Founders Helm
Neck - Angers Wrath
Trinket - Dusk Heart/Voice of master
Cloak - Natural Armor +4
Belt - Dex +3/Planar Girdx2
Ring - Fort 40%
Ring - Seeker 3
Gloves - Speed 5
Feet - Angers Step
Wrist - Feather Falling bracers of speed 2
Chest - +5 Frostproof of Vitality
Eyes - Resistance +1

Weapons - Snowstar, +2 Acid Kama of Ghostbane

STR 7
DEX 28
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 10

Looks like all that you use is random starter gear. No wonder you feel weak. Check the Auction House for level 10 and 11 items and buy those that have only one single ability on them (which should be max possible for the level).

At level 11 you should at least have a +6 DEX item and a Deadly +6 item and Speed VI boots or bracers for kiting run speed.

Try to get a Minos Legens Helm in the Necropolis for 20 Tapestry Shreds from the Orchard of the Macabre (you can also buy them on the AH) and get some False Life +30 item and a +6 CON and WIS item if you can.

I'm not sure if a ghostbane Kama in the offhand will bypass the miss chance to corporeal creatures on your main weapon but even if it does the Kama does not contribute in any way to your shuriken otherwise. Try to get the highest Seeker kama/shortsword in that slot.

You really need much better gear in all of the slots except maybe the trinket. For example you can have Resistance +6 on ML 11 items but you only use a +1 Resistance item that's where the problem is. You won't get far with only random chest loot.

[RumbIe]

What's a current gear setup look like right now for this build.

I just got my White Dragon Scale Robe, just pulled an Epic Help of the White Dragon and I have an EH Jeweled Cloak. I have epic skirmishers bracers (turn in reward) and just bought an EN Shadow Sight from the AH. I also have EN (reward turn in) Shadow Stalker boots.

I kind of feel now that I'm having gear issues and how to allot it. The original post says optimal gear would be Epic Skirmishers Bracers, White Helm and EE Stalker Boots, but there is a lot of overlap. +2/3 insightful dex from helm and boots and +7 dex on boots and +9 dex on bracers. The boots almost seem like a free slot. You could go with GS for blur, but EE ring of shadows would take care of that. I feel like I'm looking at a rubicks cube trying to make it all fit

I'm probably going to go with a +10 saves item (maybe neck??) Toss dodge on my boots and slot 200 SP in my helm? If only I spent this much time on my job

[Annyee]

The shuricannon is a great starter build for someone new to Shuriken. It is not EVEN CLOSE to the highest DPS possible in a Shuriken builds.

For that you need to run AA/Adreanline/Slayer in FoTW. The DPS you gain from 20 Monk (really just Vorpal which is 5dmg/Shuriken) is pretty minor compared to how much DPS you can gain from other class splits. Moreover, Shiradi is not very good DPS at all on a ranged character that isn't utilizing it's ability to increase spell damage somehow (like my 15Wiz/3Monk/2FvS Shiradi Missle Spammer with Shurikens for CC using Otto, Pin, and Nerve Venom). Shiradi is all in all about the worst DPS ED for a shuriken build, just as it is with a bow or xbow. However, it has some essential twists (Whirling Wrists, Pin, Otto) which makes it seems like the only choice, but really, it's one of 3 or 4 (SD, LD, FoTW are all very viable, compared to SC).

All of the Shiradi procs added up are right around 16.45 Dmg/Shuriken

Proc Name	Average Damage/Die	# of Damage Dice	Proc Rate	Dmg/Shuriken
Favorable Wind	5.5/Average (d10)	10d10	7%	3.85 Dmg/Shuriken
Fey Vision	+1 Ranged Damage	1d1 (essentially)	100%	1 Dmg/Shuriken
6th Sense	+1 Ranged Damage	1d1 (essentially)	100%	1 Dmg/Shuriken
Fey Power	50.5/Average (d100)	2d100	7%	7.07 Dmg/Shuriken
Rainbow	50.5	1d100	7%	3.535 Dmg/Shuriken
Total				16.455 Dmg/Shuriken

Add to that 5 Dmg/Shuriken from Vorpal (NS Capstone) and you have about 21 Dmg/Shuriken, which is nothing to sneeze at.

However, you can get that with about 6 SA Dice, or accounting for not having SA all the time, say 10, to be generous. Plus maybe killer, or some other good stuff. With AA, you get stances which are awesome. With Ranger you get Sniper shot, more SA dice, FE, and Pos Spell Power.

But really, the thing that eclipses this so much is when you add in Slayer Arrows, and an adrenaline. When that hit's 3 or 4 times during a 10k, my highest crit ever on my FoTW thrower is 12k for 1 SHURIKEN. That very rarely but can proc multiple times. It's usually more like 1.5-3k a shuriken when I hit adrenaline/slayer. If that procs 3 times, it's 4500-9000 damage. You would need to throw 300 shuriken (x21Dmg/Shuriken = ~6000 Avg/Damage) with your build every 30 Seconds (cooldown on Slayer arrows) to be even. Do you throw 10 Shuriken a second? I don't think so. And don't forget, that damage every slayer arrow can spike up to more like 24k with a 19-20 on one of the shuriken (my build uses Overwhelming Crit).

So, in reality, Shiradi is very mediocre DPS. But, it is convenient, low on the button mashing threshold, and relatively consistent damage. It also allows nerve venom which is nice.

It not however anything like top DPS for a shuriken build. That still goes to AA/Slayer/Adrenaline with OC.

I purposefully did not include NS poison in here because the description is bizarre and it's impossible to calculate (for me) the DPS consistently. However, you're so far behind the FoTW numbers that is doesn't matter, unless the poison was like another 30 to 40 Dmg/Shuriken and even then I don't think it would be competitive.

Shiradi bad DPS for a Shuriken build? You are just flat wrong. If you are looking for a single attack with big numbers, yes, Shiradi will not post the highest raw numbers however that is not the power of the class. Shuriken builds work of a high attack rate. In this case DPS stands for Damage per Second not Damage per Swing. FotW will have higher base damage and Adrenaline spike damage is about the best there is however to say that Shiradi is very mediocre DPS shows that you have missed the point of a Shuriken build. If you want to put out wrong information do it in your own thread.

[Annyee]

You take Monk Capstone for 2 Dex and 5 Damage/Shuriken.

But you think a modest investment in UMD for +4 Stacking Dex (more valuable than +2 Dex and Vorpal Shurikens BTW but I don't want to tear down your build) is too much?

This is a little over the top.

The Cap Stone is not to be underrated. With the capstone comes pure monk abilities, which are nice. The Vorpal damage is very hard to put a number to. A TF Shuriken with mortal fear and endless nights ruby sloted combined with Vorpal tears through EE trash like is is Epic Normal.

[Purkilius]

Shiradi bad DPS for a Shuriken build? You are just flat wrong. If you are looking for a single attack with big numbers, yes, Shiradi will not post the highest raw numbers however that is not the power of the class. Shuriken builds work of a high attack rate. In this case DPS stands for Damage per Second not Damage per Swing. FotW will have higher base damage and Adrenaline spike damage is about the best there is however to say that Shiradi is very mediocre DPS shows that you have missed the point of a Shuriken build. If you want to put out wrong information do it in your own thread.

This is not wrong info I just tested all this myself, in FotW the shuriken attack rate charges the epic moment and the fury charges very quickly.

Shiradi is more cc but I took paralyzing fear on my TF star and that gives me plenty cc with the meteor augment.

I feel that this thread is somewhat not open for discussion "The Shuriken Shiradi Cult" ftw

[Annyee]

Good DR should be broken with Stay Good in Shiradi, not some sup par BS thrower

Or the Twist that makes your weapons good from Divine Crusader.

There are many way to break DR. ED abilities, slots, different weapon features, the list goes on. Breaking DR with Stay good is probably sub-optimal.

[Annyee]

Incorrect. Red is for Devotion which is very useful if you're twisting Cocoon. There are other places to get deovtion, but then your stuck on the gear slot.

Highest DPS offhand for non level drain immune would be Epic Envenomed for Enervation on your Shuriken, +Armor Peircing +Red Slot for Devotion. Also excellent is a Seeker X of Deception (5-7) but those are hard to find since they're lootgen. Especially with crit threat changes Seeker X is basically mandatory on 20 Monk thrower after U22. Deception proc is awesome as well. Celestia is fine for leveling, but as far as adding damage goes it's not a good choice. The set bonus is nice, but there are better sets out there like Claw + eGem which nets you flexibility on your offhand which is very nice. At the very least you should aim for having both to switch, if possible. Once I had claw/gem set, I've never gone back to celestia.

False. Celestia is good damage even at cap. The procs are great with a high attack rate and IPS. Again, you have to remember Damage per Second, not per swing. There are many combos, Celestia one of the better ones. Claw is a good set up too but to say one is always better than the other is a far reaching claim.

[Annyee]

Tier 1 Dex, Frosty
Tier 2 Dex Pin 2/2
Tier 3 Dex, WW, Otto
Tier 4 Dex
Tier 5 Dex, Nerve Venom 3/3
Tier 6 Dex

I'm not looking at my game right now as I'm on an extended break but that's roughly the layout. You can go with Stay Good instead of Stay frosty but I prefer the CC. I skip rainbow/Double Rainbow/Prism because it's dumb. Stat damage is a waste of precious points. Rainbow is great, but Double Rainbow is not, in my mind. It's too random and it's too many points for maybe doing something good sometimes. Rather take my predictable, incremental damage.

Someone will argue with me about that, but they will do so without having ever tried it my way and seeing what it's like to not have it. You won't even notice.

Wrong again. Double Rainbow is great. It is very random but with the high rate of attacks the damage will avg out over time. Very rarely am I left wondering where my Double Rainbow procs are.

[Annyee]

Its higher from my Dex, and from the EK tree. Somewhere between 15 and 20 pts higher.

Really? 15-20 higher? Amazing.... BTW, 15-20 higher than what? What is the AC that you are 15-20 higher than?

I Run Firewall inspired pure monk Shuricannon and my AC/saves, fully self buffed w/ship, sit at 160, 74/89/66 27% dodge 887hp 525SP in Water Stance Shiradi ED. Lets go into tank mode. 205 70/86/63 23% dodge 1154HP 665 SP Earth Stance US ED 0 stacks of Stand against the tide. Of course this is a standard load out. For each quest/Raid/role I will twist whatever I need.

There you go, there are some numbers for you to be better than.

FYI, first life toon with only 1 Martial 1 primal 1 arcane Epic Past Life.

[Annyee]

This is not wrong info I just tested all this myself, in FotW the shuriken attack rate charges the epic moment and the fury charges very quickly.

Shiradi is more cc but I took paralyzing fear on my TF star and that gives me plenty cc with the meteor augment.

I feel that this thread is somewhat not open for discussion "The Shuriken Shiradi Cult" ftw

Jakeelala claims that Shiradi is not good DPS. This is not true. As I stated, FotW will have higher numbers and higher Raw DPS but that does not mean that Shiradi is bad damage it is just not as good as FotW. Its like saying if your not Blitzing you have bad DPS or if your not FuryShoting your DPS is gimp.

This thread was not started to compare all different Shuriken builds. It was started to share 1 type of a build. Jakeelala has repeatedly come into this thread to trash Firewalls build and minimize how effective it is.

In all honestly there are many many different permutations of how to build a Shuriken thrower. All of them will have pros and cons. I for one never considered diping into Wiz for the perma Tensors ability. This has lead me to come up with some very interesting ideas on lvl splitting a thrower. For that TY Jakeelala. I disagree with almost everything else you have posted, but you did open up many new build options.

[RumbIe]

Anyways.........

I was asking about current gear setups. I have been collecting some nice gear and trying to fit it all together now. Easier said than done. A few overlapping things in the original gear layout and I'm wondering how people are geared out right now with new kit and all. Just pulled an EE White Helm to go along with my robe. Anyways right now I have:

Head: EE White Dragon Helm + 3 Insightful Dex - YELLOW - 200 SP Topaz
Goggles: EN Shadowsight, +9 WIS, +9 Accuracy
Gloves: Iron Mitts from 3BC, +8 STR, 30% Healing Amp, +7 Resistance, 40 Vitality
Neck:Epic Skirmishers, Dodge 9%, Deadly VIII
Cloak: Clever +9 of Natural armor +9/Switch with EH Jeweled Cloak
Trinket:EN Shamanic Fetish for Devotion or VoM for Luck saves bonus or random quest exp. I have a planar focus +3 dex, but its insightful so not stack
Robe:White Dragon Scale (Only Tier 1 atm) All AC niceness and 100% fort
Ring 1:+9 CON +9 Protection (Don't have anything better yet and I get +2 more deflection AC)
Ring 2: 110% Fort of +40 FL (Again don't have much better. I get 40 HP and a bit more Fort. Will replace with Ring of Shadows when I get it)
Wrist:Epic Skirmishers Bracers (+9 dex +9% doublestrike/shot)
Belt: Epic Skirmishers Speed IX, Seeker VIII
Boots: EN Treads of Falling Shadow +7 DEX, +2 Insightful Dex and Ghostly. This slot is wasted. None of the dex counts. Just only place for ghostly
Quiver: Quiver of poison (Only heroic right now. Will farm an epic one)

Main hand: TF Tier 1 with Touch of Fire. (Not sure what to do for tier 2. I see people say get the slots, but I don't have any of the augments - Meteor, Voltaic, etc - yet and no idea how/when I will get them), Spelltouched (Force Burst + Crushing Wave + Life Stealing of Hemorrhaging), GS Trip Pos

Offhand: +5 Solar Cold Iron of Riposte VI (I know only the Riposte is doing anything, but the saves and ac boosts nice).

I have enough Dwarven Ingots to make another Tier 1 probably (or soon) Should I get a Tier 1 offhand going right now or focus on my main hand?

So I have some overlaps as well and it's not ideal, but I'm doing OK. I have to now level up crummy Fatesinger so I can swap out Silver Damage for Mage Armor. Any advice is appreciated. As you can see I'm stingy on my Augments. I've only slotted the SP. Not sure what make sense where. I'm sure I could consolidate some more gear slots if I used them properly.

Also I wish they showed ranged double shot chance on character sheet. My doublestrike is sitting at only 8% due to the epic doubleshot feat. I'm assuming though I actually have 17% (8 from feat plus 9 from bracers?) Does it stack?