Shiradi Shuricannon

[Firewall]

I thought I read somewhere that the % to paralyzing on the thunderholme weapons would be 10%... but when I look at it on the forge then it's show 5%. Also got very disappointed since I read about the effects on the wiki and took the fire tier 2 effect and the damage numbers there didn't match what the wiki said (only about half the damage compared to the wiki) which was the reason I checked upon the paralyzing effect.

If it's 5% then it's the same thing as a regular Improved Paralyzing effect, not more nothing less.

In the early version of Thunderforged effects paralyzing was implemented as 10% proc with a DC 50 vs. Fear. They changed it to 5% without a DC. Actually i think in some cases it is even a bit worse than Improved Paralyzing since even at DC 25 Improved Paralyzing procs a bit more than 5% against very low will save monsters (e.g. i can paralyze elementals with a much better chance than 5% in EH and EE content with Improved Paralyzing). The higher you get into EE Endgame content the more accurate 5% is of course. Also i have in mind that the save of Improved Paralyzing occurs only every 6 seconds and not every 5 which would actually make it better but i cannot find a source to confirm that.

Still...what it comes down to is the choice if you want to have a form of CC on Tier 2 of your TF weapon or fully go DPS. I'm working on crafting one shuriken for trash and one for bosses and for the trash i still would choose the Paralyzing Fear - the same choice i did for spelltouched shuriken since i often solo EE content.

[ininjahorsey]

Looks fun.

[Luskacik]

what about off-hand? could anyone confirm if any of the tier 2 and 3 effects on thunderforged wepaons works in off hand when using a shuriken? would it be worth ditching Celestia? I know I would love an extra red slot for devotion, so I can put a dmg augment on the mainhand shuriken, but would lose planar focus too. Uf I am correct, Celestia gives you all 3 of radiance, greater sunburst and fiery detonation, right? Wrath of flames alone probably couldn't top that, if it even works on an off-hand... does it? and does anything else?


btw if it doesn't then I'll probably still choose wrath of flames for my main hand as opposed to paralyzing fear, paralysis is awesome no doubt, but I've been runnign without it for a good while and found that venom and other shiradi stuff was enough to deal with enemies, and the dps of wrath of flames is too much to lose, I'd rather blast everything in AOE for 500 on the proc instead of just paralyze one mob...

[Firewall]

what about off-hand? could anyone confirm if any of the tier 2 and 3 effects on thunderforged wepaons works in off hand when using a shuriken? would it be worth ditching Celestia? I know I would love an extra red slot for devotion, so I can put a dmg augment on the mainhand shuriken, but would lose planar focus too. Uf I am correct, Celestia gives you all 3 of radiance, greater sunburst and fiery detonation, right? Wrath of flames alone probably couldn't top that, if it even works on an off-hand... does it? and does anything else?


btw if it doesn't then I'll probably still choose wrath of flames for my main hand as opposed to paralyzing fear, paralysis is awesome no doubt, but I've been running without it for a good while and found that venom and other shiradi stuff was enough to deal with enemies, and the dps of wrath of flames is too much to lose, I'd rather blast everything in AOE for 500 on the proc instead of just paralyze one mob...

What is almost sure to be working on Offhand Weapons is Dragon's Edge passive -35% Armor Piercing. But only the Armor Piercing, not the damage on crit like with Rebellion. I have no idea if Wrath of Flames would work but even if it does i think i will still stay with Celestia and my Gauntlets of Eternity.

Radiance from Celestia does NOT work with the mainhand weapon and never did. Only Fiery Detonation and Greater Sunburst work on the mainhand. But still this is a lot of damage and with a planar focus you even get +4 more damage and 15 PRR from the set bonus.

Wrath of Flames does NOT do 500 damage. If you check the DDO Wiki they changed it to a 5% chance to do 228 to 380 fire damage (DC 50 Reflex Save for half). This means that it does 308 points of fire damage average which is about 15 points of damage per hit if the monster does NOT make its Reflex save. Half if it does and none if it is immune to fire damage anyway. So Celestia will be better in any way (doing 250+ light damage with no save and blinding mobs) and on the mainhand weapon i think the damage from wrath of flames is not worth dropping Paralyzing Fear for aside from the fact that in some cases you even don't want to aggro or damage a group of mobs at once (like for example in FoT or Lost Thread) so you don't want AOE effects on your main weapon.

[GeoffWatson]

I was thinking of trying a Halfling variant of a Shuricannon to get some healing ability from the Dragonmark.
The sneak attack should make up for the loss of the drow damage bonus.
Unfortunately the feats are very tight.

Do you think this a good idea?

Geoff.

[Isillion]

Having finally got to level 20 I find my self in the completely new Epic Destiny arena. I understand the principles about getting Shiradi for the procs but how do I actually get there? From the reading I've finally done on epics it seems I have to get to level 4 in legendary dreadnought (LD appears useless for this character) before I can jump to shiradi........ or is there another way and I only need to get twists in Shiradi?

[galei]

Having finally got to level 20 I find my self in the completely new Epic Destiny arena. I understand the principles about getting Shiradi for the procs but how do I actually get there? From the reading I've finally done on epics it seems I have to get to level 4 in legendary dreadnought (LD appears useless for this character) before I can jump to shiradi........ or is there another way and I only need to get twists in Shiradi?

Correct you will have to go through LD to get to shiradi. Unless you feel like buying the one store item that will pass that.

[Caprice]

Having finally got to level 20 I find my self in the completely new Epic Destiny arena. I understand the principles about getting Shiradi for the procs but how do I actually get there? From the reading I've finally done on epics it seems I have to get to level 4 in legendary dreadnought (LD appears useless for this character) before I can jump to shiradi........ or is there another way and I only need to get twists in Shiradi?

Correct, you need to level LD to 4 to unlock the jump to the Primal Sphere. You can also buy an item from the DDO Store that unlocks it automatically without requiring you to level LD (Key of Destiny or Fate or something like that). You are actually somewhat fortunate since you need to level just the one marginal ED and once you are in Shiradi you can easily get Rejuvenation Cocoon, which is the best twist possible for most non-healing characters. You also get 1 Fate point per 3 levels in EDs; you will get one on the way to level 4 of LD, a second when you get to level 2 of SC (LD4 + SC2 = 6), and when you get to SC3 that will unlock Primal Avatar and you can switch to that to quickly max out Cocoon and then twist it in. The first twist slot only costs 1 Fate pt so that's ready by then even if you do use a key to skip leveling in LD. After that you can go back to Shiradi for maximum effectiveness or work on developing your twists by meandering all over.

Unfortunately, if you are trying to unlock specific helpful twists from various EDs in a single life then you will find that most of your time in epic levels is spent in an ED that does basically zero to help you. FWIW my current Cleric is capped and still busy in ineffective EDs trying to open a couple of useful abilities and the Fate points to twist them in, and in the process I have come to despise the ED system. OTOH it is pretty good incentive for TRing through a few very different lives to minimize the time spent in ineffective EDs, if you want a little more variety in your play over time.

[Firewall]

I was thinking of trying a Halfling variant of a Shuricannon to get some healing ability from the Dragonmark.
The sneak attack should make up for the loss of the drow damage bonus.
Unfortunately the feats are very tight.

Do you think this a good idea?

Geoff.

I don't think it is worth it. You loose +4 attack and damage, Spell Resistance, two feats and Venomed Blades and get +3 saves, 3d6 situational sneak attack damage and a handful of mediocre healing clickies. Probably you even have to invest more AP into the racial enhancement tree which you will lack in the class trees. in heroics this will probably be easier to level. In EE content i don't think investing in the dragonmarks is useful since you have a lot of other healing options available then.

The biggest problem is where to get the two feats from. The ones you would have to drop would possibly be dodge and deflect arrows. Both are monk bonus feats. One of them you can trade in for combat expertise and the other for shuriken expertise.

[John_Rove]

I was thinking of trying a Halfling variant of a Shuricannon to get some healing ability from the Dragonmark.
The sneak attack should make up for the loss of the drow damage bonus.
Unfortunately the feats are very tight.

Do you think this a good idea?

Geoff.

I am currently playing a halfling variant (of a sort). i did not go pure and don't intend to until such time as the capstone is fixed. I am 18 monk/1 druid/1 Fighter. I have had a great time leveling and playing this guy, even kept an elite streak from 1-28 and again through an ETR. I have soloed a good few EE's (most of gianthold, wheloon) and had no issues at all. I think it works fine, but I do look forward to trying a drow version on someone some time.

[Isillion]

Correct, you need to level LD to 4 to unlock the jump to the Primal Sphere. You can also buy an item from the DDO Store that unlocks it automatically without requiring you to level LD (Key of Destiny or Fate or something like that). You are actually somewhat fortunate since you need to level just the one marginal ED and once you are in Shiradi you can easily get Rejuvenation Cocoon, which is the best twist possible for most non-healing characters. You also get 1 Fate point per 3 levels in EDs; you will get one on the way to level 4 of LD, a second when you get to level 2 of SC (LD4 + SC2 = 6), and when you get to SC3 that will unlock Primal Avatar and you can switch to that to quickly max out Cocoon and then twist it in. The first twist slot only costs 1 Fate pt so that's ready by then even if you do use a key to skip leveling in LD. After that you can go back to Shiradi for maximum effectiveness or work on developing your twists by meandering all over.

Unfortunately, if you are trying to unlock specific helpful twists from various EDs in a single life then you will find that most of your time in epic levels is spent in an ED that does basically zero to help you. FWIW my current Cleric is capped and still busy in ineffective EDs trying to open a couple of useful abilities and the Fate points to twist them in, and in the process I have come to despise the ED system. OTOH it is pretty good incentive for TRing through a few very different lives to minimize the time spent in ineffective EDs, if you want a little more variety in your play over time.

Thanks for the confirmation. Ultimately I want to TR to a 36 pt build so will build through LD this life

[RumbIe]

Sting of the ninja was working pre-21, but not now right? I finally got it the other day all excited to add some damage and nothing.

Anyone know if this is fixed in Lamma Land for the next patch/update?

[Firewall]

Sting of the ninja was working pre-21, but not now right? I finally got it the other day all excited to add some damage and nothing.

Anyone know if this is fixed in Lamma Land for the next patch/update?

Yes it is bugged since U21 but was working fine before that. Actually the only thing it is NOT working with are NAMED shuriken (including Greensteel, Spelltouched, etc.). It seems to work fine with random loot shuriken. I tested if they fixed it on Lamannia with U21 Patch 1 Part 2 but it was not fixed then. Please bug report it so that the Devs might put it higher on the list of fixes. I have already done so too.

[elgranmago13]

I bugged it as well.
Not that it matters much as far as our gameplay, but it also doesn't work with non-returning shuriken.

[RumbIe]

Sorry for such a noob question but Celestia is listed as the offhand to proc AOE effects. Is it the Fiery Detonation that is proc-ing an AOE effect for the thrown star? Is that WAI?

If it is FD then couldn't any weapon with that effect also be used? It would include Freezing Gale, Electric Storm and Acid Torrent I'd assume no?

Or is it sunburst? Isn't that on other weapons?

I guess I'm missing how off hand weapons imbue the stars. Which effects transfer to the star? I get keen, deception(though that is not direct correlation) and seeker. Do any and all others?

Lastly I'm only lvl 7 right now, but as it is a TR I have mats for a GS item. I assume a weapon is the best choice to bridge the gap to estar challenge stars (11-16). You list triple positive and radiance. Would one better than another? Undead, specifically skellies suck, but I guess I can always respec for undead runs to QStaff? Though Nat Gann will only get me so far. Any other dex staffs? Too bad throwing hammers weren't dex based or at least a weapon of choice.

[Firewall]

Sorry for such a noob question but Celestia is listed as the offhand to proc AOE effects. Is it the Fiery Detonation that is proc-ing an AOE effect for the thrown star? Is that WAI?

If it is FD then couldn't any weapon with that effect also be used? It would include Freezing Gale, Electric Storm and Acid Torrent I'd assume no?

Or is it sunburst? Isn't that on other weapons?

I guess I'm missing how off hand weapons imbue the stars. Which effects transfer to the star? I get keen, deception(though that is not direct correlation) and seeker. Do any and all others?

Lastly I'm only lvl 7 right now, but as it is a TR I have mats for a GS item. I assume a weapon is the best choice to bridge the gap to estar challenge stars (11-16). You list triple positive and radiance. Would one better than another? Undead, specifically skellies suck, but I guess I can always respec for undead runs to QStaff? Though Nat Gann will only get me so far. Any other dex staffs? Too bad throwing hammers weren't dex based or at least a weapon of choice.

Actually Celestia procs both Fiery Detonation and Greater Sunburst. If this is intended or not nobody knows. As to what effects proc on offhand weapons please read the thread. We have discussed this here many times already. In fact i answered the same question just on the previous page of this thread in post #317.

With GS shuriken i would go with Triple Positive. It is the most powerful and quite effective even in epics and you need a good undead beater. On top of the damage you also get a clickie to raise dead party members.

[Caprice]

Lastly I'm only lvl 7 right now, but as it is a TR I have mats for a GS item. I assume a weapon is the best choice to bridge the gap to estar challenge stars (11-16). You list triple positive and radiance. Would one better than another? Undead, specifically skellies suck, but I guess I can always respec for undead runs to QStaff? Though Nat Gann will only get me so far. Any other dex staffs? Too bad throwing hammers weren't dex based or at least a weapon of choice.

Until you get your GS you might try beating on skellies with handwraps. You may need an Accuracy and/or STR item to hit consistently, but assuming that you went for the Path of Harmonious Balance per the build Fists of Light does an extra 4d6 damage vs Undead and at least you won't have many ki issues.

The only other DEX staff I can think of at lower level's is the BtCoE Chieftain's Spear that drops from a Three Barrel Cove wilderness rare chest. It has higher base damage and higher crit threat range (1d8 19-20 x2) w/ Bleeding and Maiming - nice bonuses in general, but somewhat less effective vs skellies. However apparently it is ultra-rare and since it isn't BtA that limits its usefulness over time. You are probably better off struggling through undead content more slowly than farming for that staff, since you will probably spend more time on farming than you could save by having it.

[RumbIe]

Thanks. And my apologies for asking a question already answered. The thread is 17 pages now so I hadn't quite gotten through all of it, though I am through a lot by now.

I will go Trip Pos on the GS. It makes sense. Maybe I will get enough mats at some point for the rad 2 but I so rarely run shroud now that I doubt it.

Apologies in advance if it has been discussed before, maybe I haven't caught up to that part yet, but what about the feat Precision? I am usually a strict believer in following builds the first life you run them through. I've had bad experiences experimenting before I understood how the build worked by running it through first. However instead of deflect or toughness I took Precision. +5% to hit and reduce fort by 25%. Not too bad. The only disadvantage is you can't have it active with Combat Expertise, but until then or if you turn CE off for a bit it doesn't seem like a bad option. You can have it active with IPS and since u14 it no longer reduces damage. I have it on my monkcher and it seems pretty nice.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

[Firewall]

Thanks. And my apologies for asking a question already answered. The thread is 17 pages now so I hadn't quite gotten through all of it, though I am through a lot by now.

I will go Trip Pos on the GS. It makes sense. Maybe I will get enough mats at some point for the rad 2 but I so rarely run shroud now that I doubt it.

Apologies in advance if it has been discussed before, maybe I haven't caught up to that part yet, but what about the feat Precision? I am usually a strict believer in following builds the first life you run them through. I've had bad experiences experimenting before I understood how the build worked by running it through first. However instead of deflect or toughness I took Precision. +5% to hit and reduce fort by 25%. Not too bad. The only disadvantage is you can't have it active with Combat Expertise, but until then or if you turn CE off for a bit it doesn't seem like a bad option. You can have it active with IPS and since u14 it no longer reduces damage. I have it on my monkcher and it seems pretty nice.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

The answer to this is in post #85. I later changed Toughness for Deflect arrows since it is more useful. I would recommend Deflect arrows to any monk build that can spare the feat.

[bigdmag]

Just a quick ego stroke for you I have been playing this build now for quite some time ( maybe 7 months or so ) It is without a doubt my favorite toon. Im planning some eTR's to improve AC and HP's then maybe a final hTR. He is already very effective in EE when in Shiradi, he will be even more so with 6 or 7 eTRs in him and I dont really have any great gear to speak of yet. he absolutely dishes out tons of damage and survives almost everything. 28 dodge, incorporeal and in mountain Stance I can get north of 150 AC, and with the right gear can get that even higher...I am missed a lot. Saves in the high 50's low 60's ( reflex is in the mid 70's or higher) and 44 spell resistance means I almost never get incapacitated from a spell. Kudos on a well built toon If you reading this thread and have doubts about what this build can do..stop doubting. This build is built for EE and I am consistently in the top 2 or 3 in kills( not always but fairly regularly). Now I realize kills are not the end all be all of builds design but its a pretty good indicator of how much damage is being outputted (<----thats not a word is it? ). Tons of chances for procs with the super high attack rate. I see streams of numbers rise up the screen all the time Got myself a nice spelltouched shuriken and almost never have to change it. I do use a riposte Kama in the off hand, I feel like the damage is already top notch and the riposte gives me a nice boost to saves and AC making me even more survivable. I used to be afraid to click on EE LFM's..not with this NINJA!!