Shiradi Shuricannon

[Annyee]

Anyways.........

I was asking about current gear setups. I have been collecting some nice gear and trying to fit it all together now. Easier said than done. A few overlapping things in the original gear layout and I'm wondering how people are geared out right now with new kit and all. Just pulled an EE White Helm to go along with my robe. Anyways right now I have:

Head: EE White Dragon Helm + 3 Insightful Dex - YELLOW - 200 SP Topaz
Goggles: EN Shadowsight, +9 WIS, +9 Accuracy
Gloves: Iron Mitts from 3BC, +8 STR, 30% Healing Amp, +7 Resistance, 40 Vitality
Neck:Epic Skirmishers, Dodge 9%, Deadly VIII
Cloak: Clever +9 of Natural armor +9/Switch with EH Jeweled Cloak
Trinket:EN Shamanic Fetish for Devotion or VoM for Luck saves bonus or random quest exp. I have a planar focus +3 dex, but its insightful so not stack
Robe:White Dragon Scale (Only Tier 1 atm) All AC niceness and 100% fort
Ring 1:+9 CON +9 Protection (Don't have anything better yet and I get +2 more deflection AC)
Ring 2: 110% Fort of +40 FL (Again don't have much better. I get 40 HP and a bit more Fort. Will replace with Ring of Shadows when I get it)
Wrist:Epic Skirmishers Bracers (+9 dex +9% doublestrike/shot)
Belt: Epic Skirmishers Speed IX, Seeker VIII
Boots: EN Treads of Falling Shadow +7 DEX, +2 Insightful Dex and Ghostly. This slot is wasted. None of the dex counts. Just only place for ghostly
Quiver: Quiver of poison (Only heroic right now. Will farm an epic one)

Main hand: TF Tier 1 with Touch of Fire. (Not sure what to do for tier 2. I see people say get the slots, but I don't have any of the augments - Meteor, Voltaic, etc - yet and no idea how/when I will get them), Spelltouched (Force Burst + Crushing Wave + Life Stealing of Hemorrhaging), GS Trip Pos

Offhand: +5 Solar Cold Iron of Riposte VI (I know only the Riposte is doing anything, but the saves and ac boosts nice).

I have enough Dwarven Ingots to make another Tier 1 probably (or soon) Should I get a Tier 1 offhand going right now or focus on my main hand?

So I have some overlaps as well and it's not ideal, but I'm doing OK. I have to now level up crummy Fatesinger so I can swap out Silver Damage for Mage Armor. Any advice is appreciated. As you can see I'm stingy on my Augments. I've only slotted the SP. Not sure what make sense where. I'm sure I could consolidate some more gear slots if I used them properly.

Also I wish they showed ranged double shot chance on character sheet. My doublestrike is sitting at only 8% due to the epic doubleshot feat. I'm assuming though I actually have 17% (8 from feat plus 9 from bracers?) Does it stack?

I would focus on you main hand first. Get it to T2 then work on a second. T2 is not to bad to grind. T3 is a huge grind because of the Phlogs. How you could construct your TF stars is always a matter of opinion. My trash Star is TF Touch of Shadow, Paralyzing Fear, Mortal Fear sloted with a Ruby of Endless Nights. This set up takes anything living and shreds it. Combined with Vorpal from Ninja CapStone and it is silly good. For Constructs I have Cannith crafted Greater Bane sloted with a Deconstructor and undead is of course a GreenSteel triple positive. Do not discount the Spelltouched Stars either. they can really fill the gap untill you get a good TF setup crafted.

Off hand weapons seem to always be in a state of flux. In fact, throwers in general are. Every update something gets fixed to have another ability broken. I use Celestia for an offhand with the planar set bonus. It is +4 damage per hit, 15 PRR, and the Greater Sunburst/Fiery Detonation proc often enough to be relevant. I also run the Red Dragon robes from Von. It is only 1d6 fire damage/1d10 on crit but with our ULTRA fast attack rate every d6 adds up. Especially when you get good at lining up your IPS.

If you run 10k stars, and I would recommend you should at least look at it, doubleshot is a dead end. 10k star applies a -100% double shot rate for 45 sec..... If you spam it you only get 25% (60sec rotation-45sec debuff=25% of total doubleshot) of you double shot. It has been discussed in this thread but simply, with a minimal investment in Wis for 10k star you can not beat it with doubleshot even if you invest heavy in doubleshot. Personally I think the debuff should be eliminated or at least reduced but I do not think that is on the dev radar. If you do go the doubleshot route, it does stack. 10% Epic feat, 9% Epic past life, 9% Gear(gear should not stack with its self, only apply the highest, stacks like doublestrike), and then whatever class/guild abilities you have.

Dont worry about Fatesinger, it is better than you would think. Some minor Dex boost, stacking damage from the core abilities, the minor songs are ok, Reign is not to be under counted, and Turn the Tide will clear trash quickly. this is the ED I use to get Arcane Karma Xp back. as long as you have Whirling Wrists twisted it will not as horrible as it looks.

[Annyee]

Anyways.........

I was asking about current gear setups. I have been collecting some nice gear and trying to fit it all together now. Easier said than done. A few overlapping things in the original gear layout and I'm wondering how people are geared out right now with new kit and all. Just pulled an EE White Helm to go along with my robe. Anyways right now I have:

Head: EE White Dragon Helm + 3 Insightful Dex - YELLOW - 200 SP Topaz
Goggles: EN Shadowsight, +9 WIS, +9 Accuracy
Gloves: Iron Mitts from 3BC, +8 STR, 30% Healing Amp, +7 Resistance, 40 Vitality
Neck:Epic Skirmishers, Dodge 9%, Deadly VIII
Cloak: Clever +9 of Natural armor +9/Switch with EH Jeweled Cloak
Trinket:EN Shamanic Fetish for Devotion or VoM for Luck saves bonus or random quest exp. I have a planar focus +3 dex, but its insightful so not stack
Robe:White Dragon Scale (Only Tier 1 atm) All AC niceness and 100% fort
Ring 1:+9 CON +9 Protection (Don't have anything better yet and I get +2 more deflection AC)
Ring 2: 110% Fort of +40 FL (Again don't have much better. I get 40 HP and a bit more Fort. Will replace with Ring of Shadows when I get it)
Wrist:Epic Skirmishers Bracers (+9 dex +9% doublestrike/shot)
Belt: Epic Skirmishers Speed IX, Seeker VIII
Boots: EN Treads of Falling Shadow +7 DEX, +2 Insightful Dex and Ghostly. This slot is wasted. None of the dex counts. Just only place for ghostly
Quiver: Quiver of poison (Only heroic right now. Will farm an epic one)

Main hand: TF Tier 1 with Touch of Fire. (Not sure what to do for tier 2. I see people say get the slots, but I don't have any of the augments - Meteor, Voltaic, etc - yet and no idea how/when I will get them), Spelltouched (Force Burst + Crushing Wave + Life Stealing of Hemorrhaging), GS Trip Pos

Offhand: +5 Solar Cold Iron of Riposte VI (I know only the Riposte is doing anything, but the saves and ac boosts nice).

I have enough Dwarven Ingots to make another Tier 1 probably (or soon) Should I get a Tier 1 offhand going right now or focus on my main hand?

So I have some overlaps as well and it's not ideal, but I'm doing OK. I have to now level up crummy Fatesinger so I can swap out Silver Damage for Mage Armor. Any advice is appreciated. As you can see I'm stingy on my Augments. I've only slotted the SP. Not sure what make sense where. I'm sure I could consolidate some more gear slots if I used them properly.

Also I wish they showed ranged double shot chance on character sheet. My doublestrike is sitting at only 8% due to the epic doubleshot feat. I'm assuming though I actually have 17% (8 from feat plus 9 from bracers?) Does it stack?

My current set up; Hope this helps.

Goggles: Deadly 10 Resistance 10
Head: Wis 10 NatArmor 10
Neck: upgraded Mystic Eidolons Sloted with 250SP
Trinket: Planar Prowess Insight +3 Str w/Eldritch Resistance
Cloak: GS Cloak 10hp 50sp 100sp Cha skill +6 Wis skill +4 Dex Skill +2 Balance of Land and Sky
Belt: Fort 125% Dodge 10%
Ring 1 : Con 10 FL 45
Gloves: Iron Mitts Slot Insight Wis +2
Boots: EH Goatskin sonic Resist Sloted Draconic Soul Gem
Ring 2: Dex 10 Pro 10
Bracers : Parry VIII Hamp 20%
Armor : Epic Red Dragonscale Slot Good luck +2 Slot Globe of true Imperial Blood w/Alchemical Armor Defense

Stars... lots.... off hand.... lots.....

[Cordovan]

Please quit fighting in this thread. Thanks!

[Firewall]

Yes please. Would be nice if we would come back to the topic.

(...) The original post says optimal gear would be Epic Skirmishers Bracers, White Helm and EE Stalker Boots, but there is a lot of overlap. +2/3 insightful dex from helm and boots and +7 dex on boots and +9 dex on bracers. The boots almost seem like a free slot. You could go with GS for blur, but EE ring of shadows would take care of that. I feel like I'm looking at a rubicks cube trying to make it all fit

I'm probably going to go with a +10 saves item (maybe neck??) Toss dodge on my boots and slot 200 SP in my helm? If only I spent this much time on my job

Maybe you did not read the OP to the end. It has two sections for gear. The first is a listing of items that could be useful and the second just before the end with the augment slots in colored text is the gearset that i used at endgame for quite some time and there is no Skirmishers Bracers or Stalker Boots involved and it even lists the GS Blur Boots. As far as i know there is no overlap of effects in that gear layout.

As i recently said in post #575 i don't have a newer gearset yet since i was farming my epic completionist and just lately started farming the new Haunted Halls and Thunderholme raid gear and have to see what i come up with once i have that stuff.

[jakeelala]

Jakeelala claims that Shiradi is not good DPS. This is not true. As I stated, FotW will have higher numbers and higher Raw DPS but that does not mean that Shiradi is bad damage it is just not as good as FotW. Its like saying if your not Blitzing you have bad DPS or if your not FuryShoting your DPS is gimp.

This thread was not started to compare all different Shuriken builds. It was started to share 1 type of a build. Jakeelala has repeatedly come into this thread to trash Firewalls build and minimize how effective it is.

In all honestly there are many many different permutations of how to build a Shuriken thrower. All of them will have pros and cons. I for one never considered diping into Wiz for the perma Tensors ability. This has lead me to come up with some very interesting ideas on lvl splitting a thrower. For that TY Jakeelala. I disagree with almost everything else you have posted, but you did open up many new build options.

Claimed it's not highest DPS.

[Firewall]

I have updated the OP for a bit more clarity and a small update.

Remember that with U22 the new guild buff Fencing Master is giving +2% Maximum Dodge so the actual cap for a Shuricannon is 30% now which for some people might mean to invest in Combat Archery (as lvl. 24 feat) or other Dodge Buffs if they want to go defensive and have maximum Dodge again.

[Firewall]

Tilomere made a nice post including a screenshot about the effectiveness of AC in EE quests with an AC of 140 against a CR64 Orc Berserker in EE WGU.
This is also a good advertisement to go for a Flawless White Dragonscale Robe:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...credible-in-EE

I'm starting to surpass 160 AC in Water Stance and only with ship buffs and Epic Mage Armor already with my character which is quite nice.

[Annyee]

I would agree 100%. AC IS USEFULL in EE IF you have it high enough. Most people do not invest in AC and then say it is useless. They are dead wrong. It does not give immunity and you need to invest in AC to hit a benchmark. At 120 you will see some misses. More at 140, more at 160, and get to 200+ and you will have more misses than hits. The problem comes in when every hit does 250+ damage, you have 7 mobs swinging 2 times every sec. Most toons will be dead so fast it will appear that AC did nothing for them. It is not that AC does nothing, it does work, the problem that EE is so unbalanced that AC alone will not keep you alive. The Mobs to hit is too good, they do too much damage, there are usually too many of then, and they have too many HP. A melee toon standing toe to toe can not will the DPS race in a traditional way. That is why we have Shuriken monks CC'ing/kiteing mobs to death, casters launching super burst nuke bombs, any toon with manyshot FuryShotting, Blitzmonsters, and anyone who does not do any of the fore-mentioned pike the EE quest as a stone in the fore-mentioned pocket. Their are some game balance issues that should be worked out but that does not mean that AC in EE is useless. It is just hard to get a useful AC.

[RumbIe]

My apologies on my gear statement. I did not mean Boots of Stalker. I mean Treads of Falling Shadow. It has +7 DEX and +2 Insightful DEX. With all the other gear listed it was an overlap. You had stated that you haven't had time to sort out gear recently, but I figured I'd ask and point it out since I'm having issues trying to fit things all around myself

[Firewall]

My apologies on my gear statement. I did not mean Boots of Stalker. I mean Treads of Falling Shadow. It has +7 DEX and +2 Insightful DEX. With all the other gear listed it was an overlap. You had stated that you haven't had time to sort out gear recently, but I figured I'd ask and point it out since I'm having issues trying to fit things all around myself

Not sure where you have seen that in my gear layout. The gearlayout in the OP states that i use +45 HP, permablur GS boots and it has been that way for some months now. The only overlap i can see is the Insightful Sneak Attack bonus from Ring of the Stalker (even if it states it is exceptional it really is not) and Seal of House Avithoul:

Gear:
My pre Update 21 endgame gear layout can be found here:

- Head: Helm of the White Dragon (EH currently, EE planned) +3 Insightful DEX, Blue Slot: Resistance +7 (+8 planned), Colorless Slot: Concentration +13 (+15 planned)
- Neck: Deadly 9, Natural Armor +10 (better one planned)
- Goggles: EE Shadowsight, Green Slot: +35 HP, (+40 HP planned)
- Trinket: Planar Focus of Prowess +3 Insightful CON
- Armor: Flawless White Dragonscale Robe with Alchemical Armor ritual, Blue Slot: +14 PRR (+16 planned)
- Cloak: EE Jeweled Cloak, Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood, Blue Slot: +2 Good Luck
- Bracers: +10% Heal Amp, Parrying VIII, Colorless Slot: Vitality (+20 HP)
- Belt: +10 DEX, +9% Dodge (better one planned)
- Ring 1: Seal of House Avithoul (+2 Insightful WIS)
- Ring 2: Tier 3 Epic Ring of the Stalker with Eldritch Resistance Ritual, Colorless Slot: STR +6 (+8 planned), Yellow Slot: Deathblock
- Gloves: Gauntlets of Immortality, Colorless Slot: +7 CON (+8 planned), Yellow Slot: Power +200 (250 planned)
- Boots: Greensteel Boots of Smoke: Permanent Blur, 2x Displacement, +45 HP, +6 DEX Skills
- Quiver: EE Quiver of Poison
- Mainhand: Spelltouched Shuriken and others
- Offhand: Celestia, Green Slot: Golem's Heart planned

[RumbIe]

LOL. I look at your thread probably 10 times a day to make sure I'm on track and as inspiration for things to come as I gather gear. I woudl swear that the Treads were listed along with the GS perma blur boots on the same line. Not there now obviously, but doens't matter in any case. I had noted it and hence why I asked. Seems to not be there now so no worries.

[Firewall]

LOL. I look at your thread probably 10 times a day to make sure I'm on track and as inspiration for things to come as I gather gear. I woudl swear that the Treads were listed along with the GS perma blur boots on the same line. Not there now obviously, but doens't matter in any case. I had noted it and hence why I asked. Seems to not be there now so no worries.

I reworked the OP two days ago but did not change anything in the gear layout. Maybe you looked at the 'other useful equipment' part that i now moved to the end of the post. The quoted section was at the end of the OP before i made the change.

[Firewall]

Just for the record:

I crafted some TF shortswords on Lamannia and tested if any of the effects proc with the mainhand weapon (shuriken). None of the following work in that way: 1st Degree Burns, Blinding Fear, Bleeding Damage from Dragon's Edge, Wrath of Flames, Mortal Fear, Crippling Flames.

[Firewall]

I already posted this in Marten's Monk thread but this could be interesting for Shuriken throwers:

I know DDOWiki still states that different items stack but i had already heard that it was fixed some updates ago and about a week ago i tested Dragon's Edge on my mainhand weapon (shuriken) with the armor piercing from Treason and Rebellion in the Offhand and in both cases i get the blue (Effects) message text in general chat saying that i have two items with an enhancement bonus to armor piercing equipped that do not stack and that my armor piercing is 35% (so only the highest value, no stacking). If i equip Treason and the fully upgraded Rebellion it gives the same warning stating i have a value of 20% (again only the highest value, no stacking). (Edit: Testing Rebellion or Treason in one hand and a TF shortsword in the with Dragon's Edge in the other on Lamannia leads to the similar expected result of overall 35% AP) My casual testing on the dummy with those combinations shows that this might as well be true but i have not gone any deeper into testing that. I have not tried the Black Dragonscale Robe but the bonus should be the same enhancement bonus that is on the weapons.

Here is a thread from a year ago that also claims it does not stack anymore and i have nowhere found any other source that claims they still do stack:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/424735-Armor-piercing-no-longer-stacking

also there is a DDOWiki Talk entry that suggests it is not stacking anymore which also mentions the black dragonscale armor:

https://ddowiki.com/page/Talk:Armor-Piercing

So as far as it looks to me only the highest value from items is applied which would make a black dragonscale robe obsolete if you use Dragon's Edge on a TF weapon or a fully upgraded Rebellion. This also means the maximum value of Armor Piercing that a character with less than 10 rogue levels can achieve is 80% (Precision, Dragon's Edge, Grim Precision, Ship Buff) and a 10+ level Rogue could achieve 90% (Opportunist) so you can never achieve 100% Sneak Attack damage or Crits on 100% fortification monsters by fortification bypass (leaving things like the Weaken Undead Effect from Mournlode Armors, Weaken Construct from the Blasting Chime and Wrack Construct from Mechanic aside).

Does anyone have additional information on this?

To me this means i will probably keep Dragon's Edge as Tier 2 on my shuriken to benefit from the bleeding damage as well as the Armor Piercing and put a Devotion augment into the orange augment slot so that i can wield Celestia in the Offhand and benefit from its AOE damage effects, green augment slot and the (variable) setbonus. This should be a lot cheaper ingredient wise than crafting a TF shortsword just for the 22% healing crit and one or two free red augment slots on my shuriken.

[-Zyxas-]

<snip: stuff about armor piercing not stacking>

So as far as it looks to me only the highest value from items is applied which would make a black dragonscale robe obsolete if you use Dragon's Edge on a TF weapon or a fully upgraded Rebellion. This also means the maximum value of Armor Piercing that a character with less than 10 rogue levels can achieve is 80% (Precision, Dragon's Edge, Grim Precision, Ship Buff) and a 10+ level Rogue could achieve 90% (Opportunist) so you can never achieve 100% Sneak Attack damage or Crits on 100% fortification monsters by fortification bypass (leaving things like the Weaken Undead Effect from Mournlode Armors, Weaken Construct from the Blasting Chime and Wrack Construct from Mechanic aside).

Does anyone have additional information on this?

To me this means i will probably keep Dragon's Edge as Tier 2 on my shuriken to benefit from the bleeding damage as well as the Armor Piercing and put a Devotion augment into the orange augment slot so that i can wield Celestia in the Offhand and benefit from its AOE damage effects, green augment slot and the (variable) setbonus. This should be a lot cheaper ingredient wise than crafting a TF shortsword just for the 22% healing crit and one or two free red augment slots on my shuriken.

My main is currently in a TR and doesn't have any finished Thunder-Forged, but that said...

I'm planning on 1st Degree Burns/Dragon's Edge/Mortal Fear on my shuriken. 1st Degree Burns is the most universal t1 effect, good for vuln for when others are not supplying it, and dealing moderate fire damage. But it is not the too-focused Touch of Flames, which CAN do more damage, but is less helpful to the rest of a potential group and does literally nothing in certain content, like most of FoTP. If I had a bajillion ingredients to make 5 shurikens, I could optimize them for the situation, but I don't, and don't plan on it for a long while. So I'm making my ideal single TF weapon. Dragon's Edge is great for the armor piercing, and does bleed damage, which works on a lot of FoTP but little of TotDW. It is excellent for some content, and useless in other content, but that's how all the effects are. It kind of balances out this way. Mortal Fear does not need explaining. It's basically only bad on Helmed Horrors... even on bosses it gets the force damage.

I'm sure plenty of other people can only see having one shuriken for quite some time also, so I felt like giving my input on a first TF weapon.

In other news, Black Dragonscale does more than armor piercing. If you're doing EH or EE quests and are either splitting up from the party slightly (not focusing on 1 enemy at a time as a group) or are soloing, you will have the 5% physical damage on full uptime - I know by experience. If you do around 70 damage per shuriken, that's slightly less than 4 damage per hit. People use Celestia and Planar Focus of Prowess, or Claw set, or more obscure sets, and Battlerager's Harness, for a similar bonus. Also, of course this is rather specific, if you use other weapons sometimes (I have a bow and shuriken build), the 5% is even more powerful at some times. If you don't absolutely need White Dragonscale for AC or Shadowscale for extra fortification and deathblock, then it is certainly a good offensive option while only minorly lowering your defenses in comparison. It is also a great option from 25-27 before your TF, unless your TF is sitting at T2 because you're not done with it or you ... made an extra because you're one of those people who has 108945385 ingredients. It is also easier to get (scales and a couple of raid runs) than Rebellion or Treason.

I personally do have White Dragonscale and Black Dragonscale, but I don't find myself using white much... I just don't feel a need for it. Gear options that are more "need" than opinion are rather undisputable, but ... yeah. This is less important.

I agree that AC is a useful layer of defense and I do pump it as much as what I consider reasonable, but sometimes offense is truly the best defense and taking extra defense is a loss. Barbarians soloing EEs with silver flame potions have no defense but their sack of meat and maybe clickies that anyone else can get, but they manage to make it. Unyielding Sentinel is much more defensive than Legendary Dreadnought, but people don't use US unless they're tanking something that would be difficult to tank otherwise - but then there's a rest of the group. I like having safety layers and nets on my characters, but there's such thing as "enough". Maybe you don't feel like you have enough, but I do just by having ~800+ hp, being ranged, and having a healing method. I usually did not use displacement last life, 5k favor duoing EEs on bravery, and I nearly never died from having weak defenses. Instead, lag and rolling 1s on CC with the harper pin on cooldown were my doom... but that happens to everyone.

I do appreciate your build, but I do not appreciate anyone's thread in which they knock down all outside ideas (not that you do, although in defending yourself from others that would qualify for this you almost go too far the opposite direction). There is room for flavor in any build, and whether you enjoy the game by being as objectively powerful as possible or by pushing your bounds on mediocrity is up to each individual. You think safety first, which is excellent for your playstyle (presumably) and for new players. Some people like pure offense with just enough survivability. Many people like adding in their own style, like changing the suggested race, using different skills, feats, enhancements, whatever. I personally go for a mix, and make my characters into something that seems interesting to me, rather than just what's considered optimal, while keeping not-so-aesthetic options geared for effectiveness.


Whew. Wall of text. Please see quote for information on how best to ingest it.

[Nodoze]

I already posted this in Marten's Monk thread but this could be interesting for Shuriken throwers:

...So as far as it looks to me only the highest value from items is applied which would make a black dragonscale robe obsolete if you use Dragon's Edge on a TF weapon or a fully upgraded Rebellion. This also means the maximum value of Armor Piercing that a character with less than 10 rogue levels can achieve is 80% (Precision, Dragon's Edge, Grim Precision, Ship Buff) and a 10+ level Rogue could achieve 90% (Opportunist) so you can never achieve 100% Sneak Attack damage or Crits on 100% fortification monsters by fortification bypass (leaving things like the Weaken Undead Effect from Mournlode Armors, Weaken Construct from the Blasting Chime and Wrack Construct from Mechanic aside).

Does anyone have additional information on this?
...

Thanks for sharing the results of the testing and thoughts on corrections to the wiki. Most of the aside items likely wouldn't be optimal slots for centered shuriken builds at cap though the Mournlode Docent should work fine for the Shiradi WarCannon while centered... I also like the 'Speed of Reconstruction' buff I get after casting Reconstructs such that I find myself wanting to cast it even when at full health as it does seem like I move and attack faster for those 30 seconds after I cast Reconstruction. Thanks again for sharing both builds...

[Nodoze]

...I do appreciate your build, but I do not appreciate anyone's thread in which they knock down all outside ideas (not that you do, although in defending yourself from others that would qualify for this you almost go too far the opposite direction). There is room for flavor in any build, and whether you enjoy the game by being as objectively powerful as possible or by pushing your bounds on mediocrity is up to each individual. You think safety first, which is excellent for your playstyle (presumably) and for new players. Some people like pure offense with just enough survivability. Many people like adding in their own style, like changing the suggested race, using different skills, feats, enhancements, whatever. I personally go for a mix, and make my characters into something that seems interesting to me, rather than just what's considered optimal, while keeping not-so-aesthetic options geared for effectiveness.


Whew. Wall of text. Please see quote for information on how best to ingest it. DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

I have read the entire thread and felt the OP was helpful to visitors and reasonably gracious to those posing other ideas or being critical. It seemed to me that several times that there were statements made by others that were incorrect and sometimes showed they hadn't really read (or at least understood) the build yet were criticizing it... Even when people appeared to be reversing positions which may have been just to be argumentative or to tear down the build I thought reasonable restraint was shown... My perception certainly could be off but that is the way I felt as read the thread as a whole and in context...

[jakeelala]

You forgot peircing clarity from GMoF.


Originally Posted by Firewall
<snip: stuff about armor piercing not stacking>

So as far as it looks to me only the highest value from items is applied which would make a black dragonscale robe obsolete if you use Dragon's Edge on a TF weapon or a fully upgraded Rebellion. This also means the maximum value of Armor Piercing that a character with less than 10 rogue levels can achieve is 80% (Precision, Dragon's Edge, Grim Precision, Ship Buff) and a 10+ level Rogue could achieve 90% (Opportunist) so you can never achieve 100% Sneak Attack damage or Crits on 100% fortification monsters by fortification bypass (leaving things like the Weaken Undead Effect from Mournlode Armors, Weaken Construct from the Blasting Chime and Wrack Construct from Mechanic aside).

[Nodoze]

You forgot peircing clarity from GMoF.


Originally Posted by Firewall
<snip: stuff about armor piercing not stacking>

So as far as it looks to me only the highest value from items is applied which would make a black dragonscale robe obsolete if you use Dragon's Edge on a TF weapon or a fully upgraded Rebellion. This also means the maximum value of Armor Piercing that a character with less than 10 rogue levels can achieve is 80% (Precision, Dragon's Edge, Grim Precision, Ship Buff) and a 10+ level Rogue could achieve 90% (Opportunist) so you can never achieve 100% Sneak Attack damage or Crits on 100% fortification monsters by fortification bypass (leaving things like the Weaken Undead Effect from Mournlode Armors, Weaken Construct from the Blasting Chime and Wrack Construct from Mechanic aside).

That may be a good idea if you have a T4 Twist slot that can't be used on something better. Since they both come from Epic Destinies, has testing been done to confirm both the SD-T3:Grim Precision (15%) & GMoF-T4:Piercing Clarity (10%) stack?

[DethTrip]

I would agree 100%. AC IS USEFULL in EE IF you have it high enough. Most people do not invest in AC and then say it is useless. They are dead wrong. It does not give immunity and you need to invest in AC to hit a benchmark. At 120 you will see some misses. More at 140, more at 160, and get to 200+ and you will have more misses than hits. The problem comes in when every hit does 250+ damage, you have 7 mobs swinging 2 times every sec. Most toons will be dead so fast it will appear that AC did nothing for them. It is not that AC does nothing, it does work, the problem that EE is so unbalanced that AC alone will not keep you alive. The Mobs to hit is too good, they do too much damage, there are usually too many of then, and they have too many HP. A melee toon standing toe to toe can not win the DPS race in a traditional way. That is why we have Shuriken monks CC'ing/kiteing mobs to death, casters launching super burst nuke bombs, any toon with manyshot FuryShotting, Blitzmonsters, and anyone who does not do any of the fore-mentioned pike the EE quest as a stone in the fore-mentioned pocket. Their are some game balance issues that should be worked out but that does not mean that AC in EE is useless. It is just hard to get a useful AC.

It seems to me that the progression of armor PRR should be considerably higher than it is atm. That would correct this situation. Being hit while wearing a robe, taking a lot of damage is to be expected but wearing heavy armor should provide a hell of a lot more protection than it does now. They definitely need some work on this.