Shiradi Shuricannon

[RumbIe]

Sorry I guess I could add +4 from wind stance, but I don't think that's realistic. Most run in water for Ki regen and saves right? I read somewhere that the 15% attack speed does not count towards throwing so it's just a dex bump and if you're at BAB cap for speed and number of stars does it make a lot of difference? I could be wrong on this of course and if so then by all means add +4 to my numbers.

[ValariusK]

If the ninja poison bug is fixed, along with the crit range, about how much will ninja poison add to the DPS of a shuricannon build?

[jakeelala]

I'm trying to wrap my head around easy to get above 60 dex.

Pretty sure I started with 20 Dex if i recall as I followed build advice. I'm level 25 now with all level ups into dex and I'm showing my base as 26.

So 26 base + 2 dex from drow tree +1 dex from henshin mystic + 2 dex from ninja spy + 2 ninja spy cap + 4 tome = 37 dex

Gear I have right now +8 dex bracers and + 2 insightful = 10 dex from gear. At level 25 I could play around with my gear allotment. I have a +9 dex prisoners manacles I could switch in, but it woudl cost me 35 HP from the item I have now (+8 dex of FL +35). Say I do and I find a +3 insightful item that combines give +2 more dex for a +10 gear bump

Now I'm at 47 dex with enhancements, tomes and gear.

Shiradi ED. I'm working on getting more twists, but cocoon is a must. In Shiradi the build says CC and I believe it. Pin and Whistler are nice. Do I give up Nerve Venom? I saw a post saying can't live without. So those CC, plus I assume Tea with the Queen and double rainbow don't leave a lot. I only have 1 dex point in that tree. Let's say I drop some cc and tea, that would get me 3 dex points, but I'm losing CC.

So now I'm at 50, but no CC. Shippies at 52. Granted I have 3 levels to go and better dex gear as I go up, but that's 8 points missing just to get to 60. 18 points missing to get to 70. Yugo pots? Sure I guess, but do you really count those now for sustainable stats? Heck I might really could shippies towards that number to be honest.

What am I missing? I mean I love my thrower. Does fantastic, good cc, survivable, can't see other guys numbers in a group, but I'm sure I'm laying down some damage. Wouldn't mind doing more though as I feel I'm not soloing an EE without a hire just yet. Maybe low level EEs, but not Storm.

Tier 1 Dex, Frosty
Tier 2 Dex Pin 2/2
Tier 3 Dex, WW, Otto
Tier 4 Dex
Tier 5 Dex, Nerve Venom 3/3
Tier 6 Dex

I'm not looking at my game right now as I'm on an extended break but that's roughly the layout. You can go with Stay Good instead of Stay frosty but I prefer the CC. I skip rainbow/Double Rainbow/Prism because it's dumb. Stat damage is a waste of precious points. Rainbow is great, but Double Rainbow is not, in my mind. It's too random and it's too many points for maybe doing something good sometimes. Rather take my predictable, incremental damage.

Someone will argue with me about that, but they will do so without having ever tried it my way and seeing what it's like to not have it. You won't even notice.

[Nodoze]

Thanks for all the info on various off-hands and tidbits on complementary gear and lessons learned.

For quite awhile I will be working on Epic Reincarnations and I am only level 25 thus far on this life (banking 26 as I am duoing with my daughter on her monker and she is behind me on XP).

I am running the Shiradi Warcannon build and like the quickened full self heals and long extended buffs for high Quality of Life (QoL) very much. I do the traps/locks for the party & run in water stance so I can use 10K stars every time it is off cool-down and so that I can shadow-fade when needed.

Gear-wise I am currently leveraging my previously ground out Epic Ring of the Stalker, Epic Ring of Master Artifice, Golden Guile, & Celestia along a bunch of other stuff. Even though there may be better gear options out there at cap these work for all or most of the levels of ER process and cover many needs in few slots so I like them very much.

Even though I am sad it appears the Radiance on Celestia isn't being applied the AoEs seem plentiful enough to be worth it (especially when soloing) and I value the CC very much.

With IPS and the SunBurst Blinds, Nerve Venom, & Double Rainbow procs the CC is amazing when soloing (or duoing) and for those that make it through the CC gauntlet there is Whistler in reserve.

My daughter is playing an Elven-AA 12FvS/6Monk/2Paladin Monkcher (with Quickened-Heals) and for pure chaos madness fun we have switched her to Shiradi as well and it is just crazy with all the CC with 2 shiradi going at once.

I play on a large flat screen with a THX sound system and we are enjoying the light and sound show with all the procs on the big monitor... We are finding the randomness actually kinda funny/refreshing (including the frogs)...

[Chatraz]

I need to grind out 6 more ETRs in the Martial tree on my shuriken toon. Any suggestions as to what Shadowdancer destiny abilities to suggest?

Thanks

[Firewall]

If the ninja poison bug is fixed, along with the crit range, about how much will ninja poison add to the DPS of a shuricannon build?

Fully stacked the Ninja Poison does 40d4 (20d4 DOT doubled by +100% vulnerability) poison damage every 3 seconds which is an average of 100 damage per 3 seconds and doubles the damage you do with the Quiver of Poison, Venomed Blades and any poison damage you (or anyone else) might have on a weapon due to the +100% vulnerability to poison debuff. It takes 20 critical hits to fully stack it on a mob which happens very fast with the high attack speed, 10k stars and the enhanced crit range of 15-20. Good thing is that it works even on bosses and that even quite a few undead are vulnerable to poison damage. You can test it on the life servers if you use a normal random loot shuriken on which it still is applied (it just does not work on named shuriken).


@RumbIe: The layout of your Shiradi point distribution depends a bit on how you play and what you like. I would simply try out different layouts and see what works best for you. I personally don't like additional button smashing so i dropped Pin and Whistler completely and for trash mobs only rely on Nerve Venom, Improved Paralyzing (or Paralyzing Fear) on my weapon and the added CC that Double Rainbow, Celestia and my Deception items provide. With the high attack speed Nerve Venom procs often enough for my liking to make most mobs helpless with 1-3 attacks at which point they are as good as dead anyway and i did not want to invest more AP just for trash mob damage either. Some people have difficulties with using Pin and/or Whistler reliably because of the requirements of the procs so it might take you a bit of training to use them. I also agree with Nodoze that using Double Rainbow is simply fun aside from any other benefit.
My character is at an even number with 5 DEX from the Shiradi tree and i find Rainbow and Double Rainbow absolutely worth the investment because especially for bosses it adds a lot of DOTs, vulnerabilities and debuffs in addition to other damage procs and for trash mobs you have CC, instakills, Flesh to stone and damage. Also Rainbow already does more damage than for example the Stay Frosty stance. So just check out what works best for you. Changing the AP distribution is easily done.

My current layout:
5xDEX
2xHealing Spring
Prism, Rainbow, Double Rainbow
3xNerve Venom

[Firewall]

I need to grind out 6 more ETRs in the Martial tree on my shuriken toon. Any suggestions as to what Shadowdancer destiny abilities to suggest?

Thanks

Shadow Form, Lithe, Grim Precision and Executioner's Shot are the things you might want to aim for in addition to as much DEX as you can.

[Chewysc]

Enervation 100% procs off hand from epic envenomed, unless it changed in the month ive been gone.

I'm sorry to report that it looks like enervation from E Envenomed Blade no longer proc's with shuri throwers. I just ran a test in the Devil's Battlefield for the last 30 minutes getting all the explorers and didn't see it proc once.

I made sure I had my 3x Colors of the Queen turned off and while I'm in Shiradi, I don't have any point in Prism/Rainbow line.

[Firewall]

I'm sorry to report that it looks like enervation from E Envenomed Blade no longer proc's with shuri throwers. I just ran a test in the Devil's Battlefield for the last 30 minutes getting all the explorers and didn't see it proc once.

I made sure I had my 3x Colors of the Queen turned off and while I'm in Shiradi, I don't have any point in Prism/Rainbow line.

For me this is not a recent phenomenon. I checked and the test i did with my guild mate was made on january 5th and we posted the result in our guild forum. We tested for several hours with Warlock Sobrien and running random quests and never had a single proc.

[Firewall]

Interesting changes to armor planned: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...es#post5351214

What other changes do you plan?

~ The to hit values of creatures in Epic Elite content would be rebalanced so high Armor Class builds will have some mitigation.

This will benefit Shuricannon builds in future updates some more.

[Luskacik]

Perhaps a silly question, but will ninja spy capstone really get 15-20 crits with a TF shuriken? That would mean the doubling is appliead after the crit range expansion, I always thought it's the other way around... 15-20 would seems to imply the IC is applied after the range expansion, so 18-20 double = 15-20... Is that really so and was it confirmed on Lammania?

Thing is, that changes a few things, like tier 2 dragons edge doing 20.7 average dmg per hit due to crits + the AP effect, and being **** awesome on a ninja spy capstone. And cripplign flames would do 69 average dmg per hit, which might even outweigh mortal fear, though it's hard to quantify the 2 neg levels against th emortal fear proc, on EE mortal fear will often do around 4000 dmg which is a **** lot, I don't really know how much the 2 negs amount to on EE trash. And ofc on bosses crippling flames would be definitely better... an yeah, ninja poison would be rly nice once it works :-)

[Garix]

Perhaps a silly question, but will ninja spy capstone really get 15-20 crits with a TF shuriken? That would mean the doubling is appliead after the crit range expansion, I always thought it's the other way around... 15-20 would seems to imply the IC is applied after the range expansion, so 18-20 double = 15-20... Is that really so and was it confirmed on Lammania?

Thing is, that changes a few things, like tier 2 dragons edge doing 20.7 average dmg per hit due to crits + the AP effect, and being **** awesome on a ninja spy capstone. And cripplign flames would do 69 average dmg per hit, which might even outweigh mortal fear, though it's hard to quantify the 2 neg levels against th emortal fear proc, on EE mortal fear will often do around 4000 dmg which is a **** lot, I don't really know how much the 2 negs amount to on EE trash. And ofc on bosses crippling flames would be definitely better... an yeah, ninja poison would be rly nice once it works :-)

Haven't checked with a TF shuriken, but my Snowstar was giving a range of 11-20....So it looks like its adding the +2 then Imp Crit kicks in

[Firewall]

Perhaps a silly question, but will ninja spy capstone really get 15-20 crits with a TF shuriken? That would mean the doubling is appliead after the crit range expansion, I always thought it's the other way around... 15-20 would seems to imply the IC is applied after the range expansion, so 18-20 double = 15-20... Is that really so and was it confirmed on Lammania?

Thing is, that changes a few things, like tier 2 dragons edge doing 20.7 average dmg per hit due to crits + the AP effect, and being **** awesome on a ninja spy capstone. And cripplign flames would do 69 average dmg per hit, which might even outweigh mortal fear, though it's hard to quantify the 2 neg levels against th emortal fear proc, on EE mortal fear will often do around 4000 dmg which is a **** lot, I don't really know how much the 2 negs amount to on EE trash. And ofc on bosses crippling flames would be definitely better... an yeah, ninja poison would be rly nice once it works :-)

Yes, as i wrote in post #480 i have confirmed the 15-20 crit range on Lamannia for shuriken. This is even how Kama crit range already works with the Ninja Spy capstone and the crit range you can see for shuriken in the inventory panel on the life servers so this was to be expected. This also makes Seeker items and the new stacking Seeker +6 guild buff quite a bit more valuable and all other things that proc on crit like Life Stealing, Crippling, Radiance etc too. Crippling Flames will be great to have against non-fire immune bosses and trash mobs. It will out-DPS Mortal Fear on those bosses but hard to say if it beats it on trash mobs too. Tier 2 Dragons Edge will be a nice option not only for the Offhand then too.

The Tier 5 ability Celestial Champion of the Divine Crusader even stacks with the crit range and enhances it to 13-20 (and gives Doubleshot bonuses on critical hits), Tier 1 gives you Purge the Wicked with stacking Seeker +2 and Bane of Undeath, Tier 3 Stand and be Judged and Blessed Blades, the 5th core enhancement Sword of Justice gives +4 damage and the 6th core enhancement gives quite a boost to damage too so this is an interesting ED when in need of Divine Tree Karma. It only lacks DEX as an ability choice.

The new Swashbuckler PrE also enhances the crit range of shuriken to 15-20 but with an additional x1 multiplier but with less number of attacks so i suppose there will be some really nice thrower builds with that PrE too.

[Luskacik]

that's really cool and will give Shuricannon so much more power with U22 :-) I've done some math and as far as pure DPS goes my 4 rogue 4 ranger splash still comes out a little ahead, while shadow dodge works as it does, but it's very close... soooo sad that SWF doesn't work with throwers :-)

and though swashbuckler is nice, and finally brings a cool bard that will bring more of them back to the servers, alas, it can't make up for the extra shuriken loss with +1 extra multiplier and some doubleshot, not even close...

[Garix]

Really confused about this one.

Keep seeing it mentioned in this thread (or have I just misinterpreted the info?) that it's worth having a deception weapon in your off hand (assuming its not slotted on a item eg Golden Guile). Problem I have is it just doesn't seem to work for me.

Spent a lot of time chucking things at the dummy and not one single visual effect to indicate it's working. Swap for Shadowstar or equip the Golden Guile and its procing correctly.

Am I just being dumber than usual (possible) or what?

[-k1w1-]

Just thought I would let you know that I am loving this build.

I already had a 28 lvl drow monk with all the epic destinies and plenty of gear but was getting tired of all the melee which only seemed to get tougher with each new update. I had been toying with going to a monkcher type build but this pure monk build really appealed to me. So I used an old lesser reincarnation heart I had lying around to give myself a new start.

I am starting to get the hang of all this kiting, sneaking and remote killing and finding my survivability is much better than my old melee monk. DPS is down quite a bit but I am losing much less HP. I have read this thread right through and have made some minor changes to the build to suit my style of play. I have even started doing the Eveningstar Challenges (and I hate challenges) just to get some spell touched shurikans. I currently have 3 but am still trying to get an Improved Paralyse star.

I have been experimenting with different offhand weapons and can rule out the Forresters Brushook. I thought the metaline and aligned processes might transfer, but they don't. Ah well I guess I will have to try and track down Celestia.

Anyway, thanks for the build Firewall, well done.

k1w1

[HastyPudding]

I guess the ninja spy capstone is fixed? After testing on the dummy and a run through VoN3, I've noticed crits on rolls of 15's now.

[TeacherSyn]

Really confused about this one.

Keep seeing it mentioned in this thread (or have I just misinterpreted the info?) that it's worth having a deception weapon in your off hand (assuming its not slotted on a item eg Golden Guile). Problem I have is it just doesn't seem to work for me.

Spent a lot of time chucking things at the dummy and not one single visual effect to indicate it's working. Swap for Shadowstar or equip the Golden Guile and its procing correctly.

Am I just being dumber than usual (possible) or what?

The Deception effect works like Bluff, so I think that the dummy, a construct, won't show the darkening effect that the Deception effect does. Try it against something living in a wilderness. If they spin about (sometimes even staying in place with their back towards you), the effect is working.

Deception works from an off-hand weapon. A crafted Seeker of Deception kama or shortsword will do nicely in early levels. One with a red slot for a Devotion gem will help with healing.

[TeacherSyn]

I guess the ninja spy capstone is fixed? After testing on the dummy and a run through VoN3, I've noticed crits on rolls of 15's now.

It is!!!

[Garix]

The Deception effect works like Bluff, so I think that the dummy, a construct, won't show the darkening effect that the Deception effect does. Try it against something living in a wilderness. If they spin about (sometimes even staying in place with their back towards you), the effect is working.

Deception works from an off-hand weapon. A crafted Seeker of Deception kama or shortsword will do nicely in early levels. One with a red slot for a Devotion gem will help with healing.

Thanks for some clarification. I was expecting the effect to still show as it does with a golden guile or shadowstar.