Shiradi Shuricannon

[Firewall]

I was more thinking along the lines of getting 100 stacking spell points for cocoon from the same effect that gives +6 cha skills. Something like this, which gives 25 hp, 100 sp, +6 umd, +4 dex skills and a displacement clickie. Lacking the smoke effect makes it super cheap, which is nice for newer players. (2 LDS, 3 large stones.)

I know...but spellpoints are of no use to this build in heroics since you can only use them when you start having Cocoon. So while 25 HP and DEX skills and a Displacement clickie are nice i would advise any new player to save the ingredients for the more valuable GS shuriken. The item you propose also is nothing i would carry permanently in epics because there are better named items for any slot so it would be a switch-in item for UMD and Displacement which means you could only use the additional spellpoints at the start of each quest for buffing except that the build has no buffing spells.


@Blackheartox: You don't need UMD or scrolls to cast Restoration. You can easily get plenty of Restoration potions for Druid Commendations in Eveningstar and if you prefer clickies you can get the heroic version of the Hammer of Life.

[Blackheartox]

I personaly prefer to use greater resto scrolls, since pots/regular scrolls only remove 1 neg at a time, which isnt enough for wyrn raid.
But, compared to regular players i do have +3 umd tome, 3 artie plifes and completionist +5 char tome, bunny hat at dispossal, so im not realy the one to speak about umd /:
I usualy like to have 90-100% on heal scrolls by the time im lv 9 heh, call me crazy fanatic but those little things for min /maxing were alway fun for me

I do it because i found it to be of big worth for me in any life i did so i concentrated on maxing it.
Heroic hammer has only 1 clickie of regular resto, is handy but i made the epic version /kinda a mistake since mass heal cast is just to freaking long as clickie/
For my own shuri life, plan to do either 11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue or 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie halfling.
Have yet to decide what to, tho i do have 2 more bf lifes before im totaly done with iconics

[EllisDee37]

For my own shuri life, plan to do either 11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue or 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie halfling.
Have yet to decide what to, tho i do have 2 more bf lifes before im totaly done with iconics

Don't sleep on 5 wizard: permanent tensor's! 12/5/3 monk/wizard/rogue is a very strong thrower build: full BAB, +7 dex over pure monk, plus some wizard buffs, all of which are extended since what else are you gonna take as a wizard bonus feat? Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Mage Armor, Blur, Haste and Displacement. The first four should last 10 minutes each.

spellpoints are of no use to this build in heroics since you can only use them when you start having Cocoon.

Good point.

[jakeelala]

wrong thread

[Firewall]

Don't sleep on 5 wizard: permanent tensor's! 12/5/3 monk/wizard/rogue is a very strong thrower build: full BAB, +7 dex over pure monk, plus some wizard buffs, all of which are extended since what else are you gonna take as a wizard bonus feat? Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Mage Armor, Blur, Haste and Displacement. The first four should last 10 minutes each.

I'm glad i'm still working on my epic completionist and don't have to worry much about choosing a (semi)permanent build for a thrower. Too much is changing right now. With the nerf of Fury for ranged builds on Lamannia there might be following a change to Blitz too. And the ranged crit bug on Lamannia shows that they are still working on the bug with the extended crit range which would boost halfling and pure monks some more and might of course make the Swashbuckler (and Maybe Wizard/Rogue/Bard) throwing builds close to viable. Also they haven't announced the Single Weapon Feat benefits for Throwing Weapons yet. And with the thoughts of changing EE's inflating HP, damage and saves AC focused builds also might become more powerful again. When i'm back doing heroic past lifes i will end up with a Warcannon right now.

[EllisDee37]

Same.

I think I'm leaning toward a shuricannon as my first life since it's less stat-intensive, then a Meteor Shower (12/5/3) on my second life since I'll have a couple extra stat points to toss toward int for trapping, then pick between them for my third (final) life for the character.

In other news, I just now finished farming up my 5500 greens to get him a rum flask. Now I just need to actually roll him up tomorrow so he can get the flask before cove ends.

[jakeelala]

Same.

I think I'm leaning toward a shuricannon as my first life since it's less stat-intensive, then a Meteor Shower (12/5/3) on my second life since I'll have a couple extra stat points to toss toward int for trapping, then pick between them for my third (final) life for the character.

In other news, I just now finished farming up my 5500 greens to get him a rum flask. Now I just need to actually roll him up tomorrow so he can get the flask before cove ends.

Shuricannon is probably easier to level, in heroics.

[Firewall]

In other news, I just now finished farming up my 5500 greens to get him a rum flask. Now I just need to actually roll him up tomorrow so he can get the flask before cove ends.

Congrats! I found that it was not so annoying getting the greens but mouse-clicking to break the big gems down to the lowest gems to craft the first levels. I made two of those flasks and don't want to ever do it again. ^^

[EllisDee37]

Congrats! I found that it was not so annoying getting the greens but mouse-clicking to break the big gems down to the lowest gems to craft the first levels. I made two of those flasks and don't want to ever do it again. ^^

Ugh. I had blissfully forgotten all about that.

Maybe I'll roll him up (vet2 level 7) tomorrow and do a a bunch of low level gem runs just to avoid all the clicking.

[EllisDee37]

Planning out the enhancements, everything listed in the OP makes sense and fits nicely. I really like it! A few minor questions/comments:

If you're dodge capped and have 2 AP to play with in the Drow tree, the choice is between +1d6 poison damage per shuriken or +4 saves vs enchantments. I agree with you that the 1d6 damage is probably better, but the +4 saves vs enchantments is worth considering.

I'm wondering if taking the third rank of Faster Sneaking might be better than Crippling Strike. (-2 strength per sneak attack.) Especially in EE when mobs regenerate stat damage almost immediately.

For Sting of the Ninja, which sounds quite nice, wiki says "BUG: Doesn't work on shuriken after U21." This doesn't strike me as a build-breaker, but it is kind of a downer. I guess this solves the debate between rank 3 of faster sneaking vs crippling strike.

[Firewall]

Yes you are right. Enhancements can be distributed more or less by personal preference. If you don't use an EE Jeweled Cloak the saves vs. enhancements might also be nice i agree.

Sting of the Ninja is broken since the last update but only for named shuriken (which of course are almost all shuriken you will ever use). I think it has to do with the fix they tried for crit range and the fix for the arcane epic past life feat which did not work pre U21. Since it worked before that i hope they can also bring it back to work soon but until then you have no gain if you take that enhancement.

Crippling Strike is not much of use in higher level epics that is true. It still works in some of the low level epics that you tend to run for Sagas but of course you can take something that better fits your need.

Glad you like it.

[Tilomere]

Is it just me or are others finding that any shuriken's without mortal fear just don't have killing power? And if they do have mortal fear, they aren't any use for ETRs, and still don't have killing power in new content of undead? Especially after taking into account all the blunt DR 20+ in new content that can't be bypassed.

[Blackheartox]

Nvm

[Firewall]

Is it just me or are others finding that any shuriken's without mortal fear just don't have killing power? And if they do have mortal fear, they aren't any use for ETRs, and still don't have killing power in new content of undead? Especially after taking into account all the blunt DR 20+ in new content that can't be bypassed.

Blunt DR is an annoyance but i don't find it very limiting. Triple Positive Shuriken make up for it with Greater Disruption and the EE Morning Star has Ghostbane. And as far as i know Mortal Fear works on Undead Trash too. Also all of the Shiradi Procs work on undead you just cannot make them helpless but some of them even can get poisoned. I agree though that undead and especially skeletons with Blunt DR and high fortification are soaking up quite some damage from shuriken attacks
For ETR's i have a lvl 24 +6 Spelltouched Shuriken with Impellent (2d6) , Lightning Strike, Maladroit and Fracturing (2d6) which does quite some good damage in my eyes. If you have Celestia in your offhand, a high Deadly item, high WIS and DEX and a red Planar Focus you should do some really good damage. Remember that a lot of the damage comes from high attack speed and adding secondary weapon effects and not necessarily from the base weapon.

[J-mann]

Hey firewall really like the build. I am running a variant of it to get some past lifes and its probably the most fun ive had in a while. My question is if you can tell me how much attack speed bonuses I need to cap out to maximum speed. Reason I ask is Ive got both the feats, whirling wrists, and echos of ancestors shidari slotted atm as well as perma haste. Im just wondering if im far past the speed cap and can drop maybe whirling wrists for another point or two of dex? Also wondering if I should drop my haste boost if its not doing anything for me.

[Firewall]

Hey firewall really like the build. I am running a variant of it to get some past lifes and its probably the most fun ive had in a while. My question is if you can tell me how much attack speed bonuses I need to cap out to maximum speed. Reason I ask is Ive got both the feats, whirling wrists, and echos of ancestors shidari slotted atm as well as perma haste. Im just wondering if im far past the speed cap and can drop maybe whirling wrists for another point or two of dex? Also wondering if I should drop my haste boost if its not doing anything for me.

With your setup you are likely not at the speed cap or only just hit it. Pure Monks will probably pass the cap when they get a BAB of 25 which will be an issue when the level cap is raised to 30. Still Echoes of the Ancestors: Shiradi did not raise attack speed in my tests with this setup anymore so i dropped it in favor of Echoes of the Ancestors: Shadowdancer and my level 24 feat is greater DEX. Hope that helps.

[J-mann]

With your setup you are likely not at the speed cap or only just hit it. Pure Monks will probably pass the cap when they get a BAB of 25 which will be an issue when the level cap is raised to 30. Still Echoes of the Ancestors: Shiradi did not raise attack speed in my tests with this setup anymore so i dropped it in favor of Echoes of the Ancestors: Shadowdancer and my level 24 feat is greater DEX. Hope that helps.

Thanks. I ran with shadowdancer for a bit, but I cannot stand the purple haze effect so I went with shidari. Another question, I have a thunderforged shuri with t-1 flames and a meteoric ruby slotted. I also have a spell touched lvl 24 shuri with boreal, bonebreaking, incineration and crippling slotted to it. Which in your opinion is the better star? Im leaning towards the thunderforged, but the spell plauge effect might overtake it. If I were to make it a t-2 with dragons edge or wraithful shadows Im certain the thunderforged would win out, but at t-1 im not sure.

[Firewall]

Thanks. I ran with shadowdancer for a bit, but I cannot stand the purple haze effect so I went with shidari. Another question, I have a thunderforged shuri with t-1 flames and a meteoric ruby slotted. I also have a spell touched lvl 24 shuri with boreal, bonebreaking, incineration and crippling slotted to it. Which in your opinion is the better star? Im leaning towards the thunderforged, but the spell plauge effect might overtake it. If I were to make it a t-2 with dragons edge or wraithful shadows Im certain the thunderforged would win out, but at t-1 im not sure.

Do you mean bonebreaking or fracturing?

The spelltouched shuriken you have is one of the weaker types in my opinion. For the first damage enhancement i usually try to get 2d6 light, force, sonic or good damage which are less situational. Then you should try to get 2d6 untyped from fracturing or hemorrhaging (fracturing is the better one in my opinion) so you have at least 4d6 damage on the base item which are less situational.

As for the comparison: DDOWiki attributes 12.5 points of additional damage to the hidden spellplague effect. I personally think it is a bit more since some enhancements like Life Stealing, alignment damage and the value of debuffs are not taken into account by this. I would attribute an additional 4d6 damage to the hidden effect (so an average of 14 damage) which would make a lvl 24 spelltouched shuriken worth 2[W]+5 +8d6 if you have 4d6 on the base item already. If you have Life Stealing or Improved Paralyzing on your base item the value is higher than that.

The Thunderforged Tier 1 is a 4[W]+10 +10d6 with an Orange Slot and Metalline already so judging by pure DPS it is a good chunk ahead.
Versus fire immune monsters or in some special situations some combinations of spelltouched shuriken can still be of value in endgame vs a Tier 1 Thunderforged but not when it comes to pure DPS.

[jakeelala]

Thanks. I ran with shadowdancer for a bit, but I cannot stand the purple haze effect so I went with shidari. Another question, I have a thunderforged shuri with t-1 flames and a meteoric ruby slotted. I also have a spell touched lvl 24 shuri with boreal, bonebreaking, incineration and crippling slotted to it. Which in your opinion is the better star? Im leaning towards the thunderforged, but the spell plauge effect might overtake it. If I were to make it a t-2 with dragons edge or wraithful shadows Im certain the thunderforged would win out, but at t-1 im not sure.

If you want a full breakdown of Corm vs. TF shuriken damage, you can see a very detailed version here in my build thread, which Firewall should have pointed you to. A single Touch of Flames T1 Thunderforged Shuriken is superior to even the best Comryian thrower mutation.

Cormyrian vs. Thunderforged DPS.

I also have all of my testing results for Thrown attack speed there. There is zero advantage to being a pure monk for the purposes of ranged attack speed. There is no class difference in throwing speeds.

[Firewall]

If you want a full breakdown of Corm vs. TF shuriken damage, you can see a very detailed version here in my build thread, which Firewall should have pointed you to.

Thank you for bumping my thread but i think pointing him to DDOWiki in this case is quite sufficient. After all it only takes some simple math and comparison to evaluate the difference.
Still i think it is worth to mention that spelltouched shuriken can be ahead in DPS vs. a Tier 1 TF if for example you need to break good DR on a fire immune monster/boss or if you have Life Stealing vs. fire immune trash mobs.