Shiradi Shuricannon

[Firewall]

Just a quick question. I am about to TR into this build (Thanks for the great design) and am wondering which Epic Past Life would benefit me most? I have maxed Martial and Primal, and am wavering between Double shot and Colours of the Queen. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

From the two choices i would definately take Colors of the Queen since the Doubleshot chance is set to 0% for 45 seconds every time you activate 10k stars so there is no real benefit.

[samsonov]

What you've guys taken from Shiradi? There's some obcious choices, but any dex?

[TheDr0wRanger]

What you've guys taken from Shiradi? There's some obcious choices, but any dex?

If following Firewall's instructions precisely, its clear you'll need Whirling Wrists, Nerve Venom and the Prism-Rainbow-Double Rainbow combo. I think Pin and Otto's will be valuable, based on my experience with archers in Shiradi. Remember this: Every mod of DEX is worth +1 hit and damage, + 1 reflex saves, 2*2% extra shuriken chance(that is, two 2% chances for extra stars that can go off separately or together) as well as some AC in a ratio I don't remember. Thats a really convincing value the tree offers you +3 hit and damage, +3 reflex saves and 2*6% extra star chances. How much of that is worth taking depends largely on where you are before you take them. If you have 85% chance(I don't even know if thats possible), you may find another ability more valuable to reinforce the other capabilities of the character.

[Firewall]

My actual breakdown is:

5 times DEX
Full Double Rainbow Line
Full Whirling Wrists
Full Nerve Venom
2 points in Healing Spring


That is because with my Improved Paralyzing spelltouched shuriken and Nerve Venom i can quite reliably freeze any trashmob after a few hits or CC them with greater sunburst or Improved Deception. I prefer more DEX over Pin or Whistler.

[samsonov]

My actual breakdown is:

5 times DEX
Full Double Rainbow Line
Full Whirling Wrists
Full Nerve Venom
2 points in Healing Spring


That is because with my Improved Paralyzing spelltouched shuriken and Nerve Venom i can quite reliably freeze any trashmob after a few hits or CC them with greater sunburst or Improved Deception. I prefer more DEX over Pin or Whistler.

Thanks for sharing Firewall. I guess that Teatime with queen is not good for the shuriken tosser.

[Firewall]

Thanks for sharing Firewall. I guess that Teatime with queen is not good for the shuriken tosser.

Some people have stated that the random buff which gives a 50% chance for a random proc on each attack does not work with thrown weapons. I have not actually verified this. I found the buff to be too random for my liking and it can only be used once per rest and you have to invest into diplomacy for it to be of any use. Most importantly though i mostly saved it to use when really needed and then forgot about it in situations when i could have had some benefit from it so i mostly used it as an emergency heal and 6 second invulnerability if at all. This is the part which comes down to personal playstyle so for me it was more useful to get a permanent bonus (more DEX) than a random benefit once per rest clickie.

[TheDr0wRanger]

Some people have stated that the random buff which gives a 50% chance for a random proc on each attack does not work with thrown weapons. I have not actually verified this. I found the buff to be too random for my liking and it can only be used once per rest and you have to invest into diplomacy for it to be of any use. Most importantly though i mostly saved it to use when really needed and then forgot about it in situations when i could have had some benefit from it so i mostly used it as an emergency heal and 6 second invulnerability if at all. This is the part which comes down to personal playstyle so for me it was more useful to get a permanent bonus (more DEX) than a random benefit once per rest clickie.

I will agree with this, I always tend toward increasing the general function over a temporary moment of power. I'm working on a sneak attack-oriented ranger sometime soon that will have better general damage and more even dps-patterns than the spike-heavy fury builds. May cost him DPS but I think it will be more appealing to my sensibilities.

[TheDr0wRanger]

I was looking again and coming up with what I think a fair pairing would be.

1. A star with

1st Degree Burns
5d6 Fire Damage + Stacking 1% Vulnerability 3 sec, max 20 stacks (triggers once/2 seconds) (stacks with other sources of vulnerability)

Stacks of flame vulnerability while pounding away with fire? Yes Please

2nd Degree Burns
On Hit: 10% chance to slow 50% (No Save) for 10 sec (non-bosses only)

No save 50% slow is plenty of CC for a full monk, and it will be crazy nice at 10% chance, Paralyze is a better proc but with a DC its less functional

Mortal Fear
On Hit: 8d8 Force Damage (DC 45 Will negates) + On Vorpal: Phantasmal Killers (DC 45 Will/Fortitude Save vs. Fear)

8d8 damage a good portion of the time and an instakill attempt on Vorpals

I also considered
3rd Degree Burns
On Vorpal: 10d12+75 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Hit: 10% Chance Stuns non-bosses 1 sec (DC 45 Fortitude Save)

Because the vorpal proc synergizes and the rather inadequate stun is still 1/10 hits. I just don't like a 1 second stun with a DC, doesn't seem like that power has legs.



Offhand would be
Dwarvencraft Devotion
+150 Positive Spellpower


Dragon's Edge
Armor-Piercing 35% + On Crit: 8d10+25 Bleeding Damage

As Firewall said 35% armor pierce is worth it.

Fire Storm
On Clicky: 30d15+450 Fire Breath (3/rest)

Once I have a Boss stacked up with fire vulnerability, why not walk up and toast him for 900 * 1.2 = 1080 damage for no spellpoints?

Better than healing crit chance in my estimation because cocoon is so reliable anyway.

[Caprice]

Some people have stated that the random buff which gives a 50% chance for a random proc on each attack does not work with thrown weapons. I have not actually verified this. I found the buff to be too random for my liking and it can only be used once per rest and you have to invest into diplomacy for it to be of any use. Most importantly though i mostly saved it to use when really needed and then forgot about it in situations when i could have had some benefit from it so i mostly used it as an emergency heal and 6 second invulnerability if at all. This is the part which comes down to personal playstyle so for me it was more useful to get a permanent bonus (more DEX) than a random benefit once per rest clickie.

The OP specifies taking Diplomacy specifically for Audience. Would you recommend a different skill choice these days, since you are giving Audience a miss? My Shuricannon is resting at the moment while I work on other projects, but I will be back to it at some point and am curious if I should consider adjusting my path when I do.

[Firewall]

The OP specifies taking Diplomacy specifically for Audience. Would you recommend a different skill choice these days, since you are giving Audience a miss? My Shuricannon is resting at the moment while I work on other projects, but I will be back to it at some point and am curious if I should consider adjusting my path when I do.

In my last few epic past lifes (with a +4 INT tome) i took:

Max Balance
Max Concentration
Max Spot
22 Heal (for a skill value of 11 because of not being a class skill)
14 Move Silent
6 Jump
1 Tumble

But actually i think you can distribute the skillpoints as you think best. After i included the Gauntlets of Immortality into my gear i wanted tried to get as much additional positive spellpower as i could but actually 11 more is not really much. If you like you can still max out diplomacy or bluff or something like that and be able to get some optionals in quests like crucible. Other people still go for UMD.

[Firewall]

@TheDrowRanger:

I would craft my shuriken completely different.

First of all the Vulnerability takes 40 seconds to build a full stack that gives you 20% more damage and thus does not make use of the high shuriken attack speed (only 1 stack per 2 seconds). Having 10d6 and thus double the fire damage with every attack is much better in my opinion except maybe for prolonged boss fights. Trash mobs will never last 40 seconds.

Secondly DrOc posted here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5266258 that they have removed all DCs from the weapon effects except those that save for half damage and thus paralyzing is better than any slow effect.

I don't think that they have removed the DCs from Mortal Fear though since this is a Nightmare effect but this remains to be seen. In any case for Tier 3 i would prefer to go with Crippling Flames especially since they are working on the shuriken crit range bug.

So my shuriken would look like:

Tier 1: Touch of Flames=10d6 Fire damage on hit
Tier 2: Paralyzing Fear=10% chance to paralyze on hit
Tier 3: Crippling Flames=10d20+125 Fire Damage on Crit + On Vorpal: Negative Level

For the Offhand i would go with Wrath of Flames instead of Armor Piercing since so far all of the AOE effects on weapons worked on the mainhand too but that will have to be confirmed.
Also i prefer 22% crit on healing instead of a three time clickie because cocoon has four ticks and on average about every 4th tick will be a healing crit.
I'm not sure how you calculate to get 1080 damage out of the clickies. In my calculation 30d15 are 30x8=240 average so the damage would be 240+450=690 damage average per clickie with three uses per rest.

But since nothing of this is on the life server i would wait how everything is implemented at release anyway.

[TheDr0wRanger]

Replies in line

@TheDrowRanger:

I would craft my shuriken completely different.

First of all the Vulnerability takes 40 seconds to build a full stack that gives you 20% more damage and thus does not make use of the high shuriken attack speed (only 1 stack per 2 seconds). Having 10d6 and thus double the fire damage with every attack is much better in my opinion except maybe for prolonged boss fights. Trash mobs will never last 40 seconds.
See, I read that as the fire damage ticking every 2 seconds, If the way you've read it is correct I concede the point, although there is still something to be said about this in raids where more people are throwing fire damage, a lot of my guildies play Fire Savant and we could synergize well.


Secondly DrOc posted here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5266258 that they have removed all DCs from the weapon effects except those that save for half damage and thus paralyzing is better than any slow effect.
I had seen that but I forgot it when I posted, I would agree, although I thought slow had a wider range of creatures it affects(possibly a misconception, I don't have anyone who uses paralyze)
I don't think that they have removed the DCs from Mortal Fear though since this is a Nightmare effect but this remains to be seen. In any case for Tier 3 i would prefer to go with Crippling Flames especially since they are working on the shuriken crit range bug.
I suspect they haven't removed the Mortal Fear DC, but given the fire rate and thus number of vorpals per second, its going to be effective regardless, my Cloak of Night still knocks fools over, as does my Nightmare. Nightmare Guard is reported as DC22 and Nightmare sits at 36 reported. If I can proc twice as often at DC 45 I think it will be worth its weight. Just look at how well the DC26 Paralyzing Arrows in AA work, or the DC17 Spelltouched you yourself like so much.
Granted its 1/20 the chance to occur but its also almost 3 times as likely to kill when it does.
Certainly Crippling Flames is nice, and given the crit range may pull ahead, I also looked at 3rd degree, while the stun is short, another 10% chance for CC is another 10% chance to stop people.

So my shuriken would look like:

Tier 1: Touch of Flames=10d6 Fire damage on hit
Tier 2: Paralyzing Fear=10% chance to paralyze on hit
Tier 3: Crippling Flames=10d20+125 Fire Damage on Crit + On Vorpal: Negative Level
Would be sweet, I see your point and I must concede to your experience about how it plays.
I would also note that you can do this several times, if thy raid is ANY fun at all I'll be making this stuff constantly.

For the Offhand i would go with Wrath of Flames instead of Armor Piercing since so far all of the AOE effects on weapons worked on the mainhand too but that will have to be confirmed.
I did some research after I posted this and I would as well, I thought negated crits also blocked on-crit Procs, but I find this is not the case

Also i prefer 22% crit on healing instead of a three time clickie because cocoon has four ticks and on average about every 4th tick will be a healing crit.
I'm not sure how you calculate to get 1080 damage out of the clickies. In my calculation 30d15 are 30x8=240 average so the damage would be 240+450=690 damage average per clickie with three uses per rest.
I had calculated a range but I didn't post it, that's high-end with the stack of vulnerability, even with that average there's something to be said for numbers on demand but perhaps I underestimate the general damage of the build.

I stand by what I said though about Cocoon, I have several toons that rely on it and I don't find that I'm desperate. Anyway that can only result in an increase of :
1.5(healing lore max level) * 60 points of heal(25% or 1 proc in 4 from a 240 point heal, which is my norm) = 90 points + the other 3 procs for 60
so 270 versus 240
Even if we double it to 480 you only make an estimated increase of 60 points. I don't find that appealing enough, especially since I land 240 on myself with 200-ish healing spellpower and and 30+ healamp


But since nothing of this is on the life server i would wait how everything is implemented at release anyway.
I fully agree, since something will inevitably be broken, and we might want to tailor for something we have yet to anticipate.

[TeacherSyn]

For all that have missed it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5259508

From Vargouille:

And another one from Vargouille here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5260545

talking specifically about the Crit range bug:

I haven't seen any similiar language in Update 21's release notes about this bug's specific fix incorporated into this release, so I guess testing your Shuricannon's effectiveness (as well as looking at the critical range) is the way to test if that bug is gone for good.

[Irastirdadt]

First of all, Firewall Im playing your build, and´s AWESOME, lots of fun.

The problem: the ninja poison sting seems to be broken, dont use the poison with the shuriken but yes with the kama in the offhand. try to remove the kama and reload the toogle. nop. Im using a shadowstar, and a crafted kama (seeker 6 of sneak atack 1)

fix a thing, broke another.

sorry for my english. and thanks in advance.

[Luskacik]

So can anyone confirm if the ninja spy capstone has been fixed and gives +2 threat range now? I don't have a pure monk atm...

also as tier 3 wyrm wrought goes, crippling flames seems best, but I've been thinking about mortal fear... 5% chance to halve a non boss HP that can amount to a crazy amount of damage, EE storm horns trash giants have ~16K HP, if I say actual hp will be 8000 on average, that's 5% chance of 4000 dmg... ofc that only on EE lvl 28 quests an above, anything else the effect will be much weaker, so cripplign flames wins, but the mortal fear is at least interesting...

[samsonov]

So can anyone confirm if the ninja spy capstone has been fixed and gives +2 threat range now? I don't have a pure monk atm...

Nope, I've tested it against training dummy. And it seems that when I have a spelltouched shuriken in my hand it says 18-20 threat range, but it crits only 19-20. Snowstar seems to work as it says 15-20, but every other shurikens crits only 19-20

Sadly devs couldn't make it work even in this update!

[Firewall]

The threat range from the monk capstone is not fixed. I did not even expect it after the Lamannia Build showed the same wrong behaviour that the life server did and there was no mention in the release notes of a change. People say the arcane past life Enchant weapon does now work with shuriken (which it did not before) but the downside is that Sting of the Ninja stopped working.

Very disappointing!

[Firewall]

The shuricannon benefits from a change in U21:

- Purify Weapon no longer has a stance requirement.

If you are willing to spend a Tier 4 Twist for Purify weapon you will be able to break almost any DR (and do 1d6 additional good damage) if you combine this with a new Thunderforged shuriken which all have inherent Metalline enhancements. So we are now able to break DR/Good as well as DR/Metal.
Since Shuricannons are affected much more by DR than other builds due to the low damage and high attack speed they can gain a lot of DPS against high DR monsters that way.

[Cyr]

The threat range from the monk capstone is not fixed. I did not even expect it after the Lamannia Build showed the same wrong behaviour that the life server did and there was no mention in the release notes of a change. People say the arcane past life Enchant weapon does now work with shuriken (which it did not before) but the downside is that Sting of the Ninja stopped working.

Very disappointing!

I can confirm EW PL works now as does Eldritch Knight elemental damage on hit toggles (which did not before update), and yeah sting is broken which really hurts. Would love to see if anyone see if anyone has tested any thunderforged effects proccing on mainhand from offhand upgrades.

[Luskacik]

well that sucks :-( they said they fixed a major thing in shuriken which should fix these bugs, guess not, why does that still surprise me with Turbine...

anyone tested halfling threat range? Pretty sure it's not fixed either...