Pale Trapper for new players (Human 18/2 Wizard/Rogue)

[EllisDee37]

Firewall/ice storm is 25 sp, aura is 15 or 25 sp depending on which one, displacement is another 20sp. That's 60sp for 'a dozen or so mobs', not including web/dancing ball, not including acid rain. How the heck do you manage spending that much sp at a go?

The displacement and aura last for multiple encounters.

Why bank 2 AP and wait before taking the efficient metamagics? I can understand waiting for empower because of level 2 wizard prereq, but why do it for maximise and quicken?

Well, for quicken, you don't take quicken until level 17 so the idea is to max the efiicient line all at once as soon as you get the feat. The original build didn't take maximize until level 9, and the same concept was used there for the leveling guide. I still don't actually use maximize on spells until level 9. (It's free on SLAs.)

How do I craft the axeblock and spearblock shards?

You no longer can with the crafting revamp.

[Shadowraven7]

I would have liked to use this to convert my pure wiz to a trapper, but the cost of the required wood prevented that, so decided to just use the free lesser wood to "fix" my wiz that was using the Pale Master preset to alocate points better and take better feats using your build as a guide.

The guide has been very helpful as I have finally come to understand a few things I had previously been ignorant about, but given that my setup has changed so much I have a few questions.

I am level 15 and previously had put all points in the Pale Master/Human trees ( Skellie pet maxed), and the extent of using metamagic was just Extend on buffs/aura as their SP cost seemed too heavy to use on anything else ( no improved metamagic abilities), I didn't even understand why I kept seeing that they were free for SLA's as the only SLA's I had used were the Necrotic line in PM tree which don't qualify as they use HP not SP.

A lot of spells that I have tried to use following recomendations never seemed to be very effective for me personally, but perhaps that was just due to points spent in wrong places to boost them.

So given that this thread is quite old and some things may be a bit out of date regarding spell use, I was wondering if anyone could give me some rough advice on what spells I should be using at 15+ for each type of situation ( 1-2 mobs or packs), and what metamagics to be using on what spells, wiz has so many spells, hard to know which ones there is no point using/taking up space on hotbar?

[EllisDee37]

Necrotic Ray with just Maximize is pretty sweet, and gets stronger as you gain levels. In the mid-teens is when it starts getting good, and is very good by 18.

For Maximize, I generally look to gear up with Efficient Maximize, but unfortunately cannith crafting doesn't have the good version anymore. You used to be able to reduce the cost by 4 with Eff. Max II, but new crafting only offers 2 SP off with Eff. Max. Still, -2 is nice to have if you can squeeze it in. Add in the -9 savings from enhancements, my old-style trinkets I crafted long ago make maximize cost me 12 SP. It'll be 14 with new style crafting, or 16 with no item at all.

For smaller encounters, say 2-4 mobs, try Circle of Death. It's like a miniature version of Wail of the Banshee, but it happens all at once so be sure the group is on top of you when you cast it. I seem to recall just using Heighten on it, not quicken.

Otto's Sphere of Dancing is my preferred AoE crowd control, since i find webs to be super fragile. Definitely want to quicken it, and heighten as well.

For very large groups -- like you intentionally run through multiple rooms to gather tons of mobs -- I like to combine Otto's Sphere with Acid Rain plus either Firewall or Ice Storm, depending on what types of enemies they are. Note that Ice Storm also does force damage, so if a group is immune to both fire and ice, go with ice storm. Try those AoE dps spells with just maximize, then try with both maximize and empower, and decide for yourself if empower is worth it. I generally consider empower to be not worth it, especially since I efficient-ize maximize but not empower. (EDIT: Because level 4 spells are at a premium, I will use the same slot for firewall and ice storm, switching in the more appropriate one for quests, sometimes in the middle of quests at shrines.)

For bosses, necrotic ray plus dots is the way to go: Eladar's Electric Surge and Niac's Biting Cold. I generally use both maximize and empower with both, but not quicken.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Chain Lightning and Ball Lightning are both covered in win. I just use maximize on them, not quicken or heighten or empower. Ball Lightning is essentially an electric fireball, but more powerful and not fire so it works on devils and demons. Chain Lightning is one of my three primary rays: Necrotic Ray, Chain Lightning and Polar Ray. All 3 with just maximize.

EDIT 2: Actually, level 15 is probably still low level enough that webby firewalls are probably still good. Heightened Web, Maximized Firewall, both on the exact same spot on the ground at the same time.

[Kaisheng21]

How do I not get shredded by light damage?

Some backstory: Am level 11, 178hp at full health, with level 11 cleric hireling on elite Gwylan's Stand, otherwise solo. I have a ring of light resistance 18 and have aura and displacement up. I go into the west boss chamber, champion slams me to 4/5 health, heal almost back up, priest hits me with light spell and I instantly go down to about 60 hp. Aura heals me to 80, priest kills me with a second spell. Get raised, drink a pot of ISW, get killed again. Watch in horror as hireling gets mobbed and takes damage faster than they can heal and get KOed too.

Gwylan's Stand is level 9 on elite.

Is it just me or are PMs way too vulnerable to light?

[EllisDee37]

What form are you in?

I typically go with zombie, then wraith, then lich, skipping vampire altogether.

[Kaisheng21]

Vampire. Is the triple light damage why? It feels like the same thing would have happened even with zombie form, albeit slower.

[EllisDee37]

Vampire. Is the triple light damage why?

Yep.

[Kaisheng21]

Yep.

Could you please give me some advice? Also, why Chain Lightning rather than Disintegrate? Wiki says Chain Lightning actually has normal spell range, not double.

[EllisDee37]

Could you please give me some advice? Also, why Chain Lightning rather than Disintegrate? Wiki says Chain Lightning actually has normal spell range, not double.

Did switching to zombie form help lower the light damage you were taking?

Not sure what specifically you're asking about re: chain lightning vs disintegrate. Disintegrate is single target, compared to chain lightning which hits multiple enemies at once. (As many as there are nearby, possibly.)

[Kaisheng21]

Did switching to zombie form help lower the light damage you were taking?

Not sure what specifically you're asking about re: chain lightning vs disintegrate. Disintegrate is single target, compared to chain lightning which hits multiple enemies at once. (As many as there are nearby, possibly.)

Ty for the quick reply. I thought about switching to zombie, but if I switched to zombie every time there was a divine caster, I would run out of sp extremely quickly. If I just stayed in zombie form, that would negate the point of vampire form in the first place. Also, like I said, it feels like the same thing would have happened in zombie form, just slower.

You recommended ray spells because they have longer ranges than Beholders' antimagic. However, Chain Lightning has exactly the same range as most spells. I said Disintegrate because it was just the first ray spell of equivalent level that jumped into my mind.

[EllisDee37]

Ty for the quick reply. I thought about switching to zombie, but if I switched to zombie every time there was a divine caster, I would run out of sp extremely quickly. If I just stayed in zombie form, that would negate the point of vampire form in the first place. Also, like I said, it feels like the same thing would have happened in zombie form, just slower.

My advice continues to be to run in zombie form all the time until you get wraith form. I personally would never run in vampire form.

You recommended ray spells because they have longer ranges than Beholders' antimagic. However, Chain Lightning has exactly the same range as most spells. I said Disintegrate because it was just the first ray spell of equivalent level that jumped into my mind.

I recommended chain lightning in general. For beholders I would stick with necrotic ray, frost lance and scorching ray. At higher levels use polar ray instead of frost lance.

I suppose disintegrate would work, but that's force spell power. Typically I'll have higher cold spell power than force spell power, at least while leveling through heroics.

[Kaisheng21]

My advice continues to be to run in zombie form all the time until you get wraith form. I personally would never run in vampire form.

Huh. Where did you say that? Could you add that to the main post please?

I recommended chain lightning in general. For beholders I would stick with necrotic ray, frost lance and scorching ray. At higher levels use polar ray instead of frost lance.

Hmm. Why not, say, Lightning Bolt instead of Scorching Ray?

Also, ty for putting up with all my questions. Must be annoying on your end.

[EllisDee37]

Hmm. Why not, say, Lightning Bolt instead of Scorching Ray?

Also a good choice.

Level 3 is one of those spell levels where there's more to take than I have slots, and lightning bolt usually doesn't make the cut:

Displacement
Haste
Frost Lance
Fireball
Rage

The only reason I like frost lance more than lightning bolt is that lightning bolt can be evaded for 0 damage, while frost lance can only be saved for half since it's a fort save.

Huh. Where did you say that? Could you add that to the main post please?

Post 185.

I definitely do need to update the first page, though. It's just that I'm not running wizard lives atm.

[URjustSOL]

I definitely do need to update the first page, though. It's just that I'm not running wizard lives atm.

thank you! I think I've hosed my build from trying to incorporate all the myriad side-discussions going on.

[Kaisheng21]

What should I take for my level 8 and 9 spells?

[EllisDee37]

Level 8 spells to prioritize:
- Polar Ray
- Black Dragon Bolt
- Trap the Soul (for crafting)

Level 9 spells to prioritize:
- Wail of the Banshee
- Mass Hold Monster
- Dominate Monster
- Energy Drain


Energy Drain would be higher except that I find myself preferring the enervation SLA since it's so much cheaper. Still, Energy Drain is so good that even if you prefer the SLA, it's still worth having.

Other level 8 spells of interest include Mass Charm Monster, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Power Word Stun, Greater Shout, Sunburst and Horrid Wilting.

Other level 9 spells of interest include Power Word Kill, Meteor Swarm and Mordenkainen's Disjunction (for disabling spell wards).

[Kaisheng21]

Am now level 20 with 1800 sp, 1600 after I swap out the wizardry items. On normal groups, I would just spam unmetaed Sonic Blast to stun everything and Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray whatever saved against it, usually the spellcasters. On small groups, I would (heighten) Circle of Death, then alternate Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray and Sonic Blast. On large groups, I would throw down an (max) Ice Storm, then cast Death Aura and spam Sonic Blast. If I was below half health, I cast Death Aura. On champions/orange names I would Finger of Death. On bosses I would use (emp+max) Niac's Biting Cold + Eladar's Electric Surge. If I was low on sp(as in Korthos-clicky-using, echoes-of-power low, I would Sonic Blast x2, Chill Touch and repeat.

Obviously, Sonic Blast was important to my playstyle, but it's not as effective anymore. I only stun 1 mob in 4 now usually, and I'm burning my sp much faster with all the heightened Circles of Death and (emp+max)Necrotic Rays I'm tossing out. Heightened Web doesn't work on spellcasters or ranged archers, though I can tangle giants in it, I sometimes lose concentration on Otto's Sphere and both are absurdly expensive. Ice Storm seems to disappear with casters around and Finger of Death isn't always working against champions/orange named. In short, my spells are getting worse and I'm running out of sp too quickly. I was thinking of taking some of the Necrotic or Arcane SLAs, any advice welcome.

[Kaisheng21]

Am now level 20 with 1800 sp, 1600 after I swap out the wizardry items. On normal groups, I would just spam unmetaed Sonic Blast to stun everything and Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray whatever saved against it, usually the spellcasters. On small groups, I would (heighten) Circle of Death, then alternate Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray and Sonic Blast. On large groups, I would throw down an (max) Ice Storm, then cast Death Aura and spam Sonic Blast. If I was below half health, I cast Death Aura. On champions/orange names I would Finger of Death. On bosses I would use (emp+max) Niac's Biting Cold + Eladar's Electric Surge. If I was low on sp(as in Korthos-clicky-using, echoes-of-power low, I would Sonic Blast x2, Chill Touch and repeat.

Obviously, Sonic Blast was important to my playstyle, but it's not as effective anymore. I only stun 1 mob in 4 now usually, and without it I'm burning my sp much faster with all the heightened Circles of Death and (emp+max)Necrotic Rays I'm tossing out. In short, my spells are getting worse and I'm running out of sp too quickly. Maybe some of the Necrotic or Arcane SLAs would help? Any advice welcome.

[EllisDee37]

Do you have epic destinies?

[Kaisheng21]

Do you have epic destinies?

I have Arcane Study I. That's it.