Epic Elite quests: has anyone tried them here?

[Wizza]

I didn't have much time to check them out.

However, some of them had CR 70+ Mobs. I was shocked really.

What's mobs saves? And DCs of their spells? Their damage output? Their speed/SA dmg?

[Hendrik]

Shadowfell EE, more Stormhorns then the Prison IMO, are no joke.

I didn't waste my time trying to note saves, DCs, or anything else - all effort was put into just staying alive.

[unacceptable]

Good point, i didn't try. The only dev comment I saw regarding saves referred to the comments about high saves as an "agenda" so I assume they don't plan to change it.

Shiradi works good enough for just about any caster for EE, I miss using CC casting because I felt it promoted team work and let more people participate in difficult content. Shiradi is way easier and less sp anyhow, so saves aren't really all that relevant any more for EE- except your own

[Wizza]

Good point, i didn't try. The only dev comment I saw regarding saves referred to the comments about high saves as an "agenda" so I assume they don't plan to change it.

Shiradi works good enough for just about any caster for EE, I miss using CC casting because I felt it promoted team work and let more people participate in difficult content. Shiradi is way easier and less sp anyhow, so saves aren't really all that relevant any more for EE- except your own

Except we shouldn't be forced into a cookie-cutter build. It should not be encouraged to go Shiradi.

Too bad this is not happening because some Dev decided that every Wiz is now supposed to be shiradi (if you don't believe, look at your Tier 5 enhancement in the Archmage tree).

Your comment makes me believe even more that Shiradi is the worst thing happened to this game since MotU. It screams so much of "who cares about DC and Saves, they have Shiradi, screw the rest".

[Charononus]

Too bad this is not happening because some Dev decided that every Wiz is now supposed to be shiradi (if you don't believe, look at your Tier 5 enhancement in the Archmage tree).

Just looked at them..... no idea what you are talking about. If it's arcane blast that was an enhancment before so I'm just not seeing how this = "Go shiradi noob"

[Wizza]

Just looked at them..... no idea what you are talking about. If it's arcane blast that was an enhancment before so I'm just not seeing how this = "Go shiradi noob"

Arcane Supremacy: Your offensive spells has a 10% chance to trigger 10 secs of +25% crit chance and +100% crit damge, max once per 90 seconds

[Charononus]

Arcane Supremacy: Your offensive spells has a 10% chance to trigger 10 secs of +25% crit chance and +100% crit damge, max once per 90 seconds

Yeah that's shiradi type buffage, missed it.

[Wizza]

Yeah that's shiradi type buffage, missed it.

Pretty much forcing wizards to go Shiradi.

This is not how you fix EE DCs problem that we've been talking about for abouth 4 months now.

Just lame.

[aristarchus1000]

Pretty much forcing wizards to go Shiradi.

This is not how you fix EE DCs problem that we've been talking about for abouth 4 months now.

Just lame.

Do you think DC casting would be more viable if Shiradi didn't exist?

The mobs will be exactly the same. Arcane casters will just be haste-bots or Firewall/perch/hiders (like when epics first came out).

[Wizza]

Do you think DC casting would be more viable if Shiradi didn't exist?

The mobs will be exactly the same. Arcane casters will just be haste-bots or Firewall/perch/hiders (like when epics first came out).

Without it, I think Devs would focus more on this problem. And wouldn't give us CR 70 mobs.

Right now, if you haven't the DCs, everyone can just tell you "well, go Shiradi". Well guess what? That doesn't solve a thing.

[Humperdink]

I didn't have much time to check them out.

However, some of them had CR 70+ Mobs. I was shocked really.

What's mobs saves? And DCs of their spells? Their damage output? Their speed/SA dmg?

I had a chance to play around a little bit with a DC60 school of Enchantment combined with -5 will save from Crushing Despair or -2 from Fascinate (making that an effective 62-65DC) and I was not encouraged by what I experienced. And I'm not a "MUST LOCKDOWN 100% ALL MONSTERS ALL THE TIME OR IT TOTALLY SUCKS AND IS WORTHLESS!!11" kind of player. Vargouille mentioned in a dev chat they would be looking more closely at the situation with monster saves and EE down the road at some point when I asked.

[Wizza]

I had a chance to play around a little bit with a DC60 school of Enchantment combined with -5 will save from Crushing Despair or -2 from Fascinate (making that an effective 62-65DC) and I was not encouraged by what I experienced. And I'm not a "MUST LOCKDOWN 100% ALL MONSTERS ALL THE TIME OR IT TOTALLY SUCKS AND IS WORTHLESS!!11" kind of player. Vargouille mentioned in a dev chat they would be looking more closely at the situation with monster saves and EE down the road at some point when I asked.

When did you ask that? The latest dev chat?

[Ancient]

Without it, I think Devs would focus more on this problem. And wouldn't give us CR 70 mobs.

Right now, if you haven't the DCs, everyone can just tell you "well, go Shiradi". Well guess what? That doesn't solve a thing.

If your solution to a problem is to tear something down that others find fun... you really need to go back to the drawing board. I'm 100% behind buffing DC casting so that it is viable, but posts like yours do make me wonder if doing so will mean hurting the builds I enjoy playing.

[Wizza]

If your solution to a problem is to tear something down that others find fun... you really need to go back to the drawing board. I'm 100% behind buffing DC casting so that it is viable, but posts like yours do make me wonder if doing so will mean hurting the builds I enjoy playing.

Where did I say "tear shiradi down" ?

My motto has always been "buff don't nerf" but you can't buff other abilities to match something OP.

It's like buffing every other epic moment to match the old and uber OP EiN. It's just not right. We can't make every other Epic moment to kill a whole room of monsters with a DC of 70 easily attainable.

When you understand that, you will start to think like me. I'm all for buffing but if something is OP, it is right to nerf it. A little, but a nerf (not the usual nerf to oblivion-Turbine style). Sorcerers were OP, they deserved a little nerf and WE got it. I'm fine with that.

The only change needed in the Shiradi tree is make MM and co. to count only as half of the procs they are getting and give Nerve Venom a DC. There you go. Fixed. Broken? no. Useless? no.

If you can't accept a nerf to something just because people find it fun, then I'm not the one that needs to go back to the drawing board. Sometimes small nerfs are needed.

[soloist12]

Where did I say "tear shiradi down" ?

My motto has always been "buff don't nerf" but you can't buff other abilities to match something OP.

It's like buffing every other epic moment to match the old and uber OP EiN. It's just not right. We can't make every other Epic moment to kill a whole room of monsters with a DC of 70 easily attainable.

When you understand that, you will start to think like me. I'm all for buffing but if something is OP, it is right to nerf it. A little, but a nerf (not the usual nerf to oblivion-Turbine style). Sorcerers were OP, they deserved a little nerf and WE got it. I'm fine with that.

The only change needed in the Shiradi tree is make MM and co. to count only as half of the procs they are getting and give Nerve Venom a DC. There you go. Fixed. Broken? no. Useless? no.

If you can't accept a nerf to something just because people find it fun, then I'm not the one that needs to go back to the drawing board. Sometimes small nerfs are needed.

Exactly.

You burn through your sp 3 times as fast as a DC caster to get the same job done as a shiradi. Not only that, but the shiradi is also more effective for bosses after the trash. You also are just as effective as a 9xcaster life completionist at it. It's TOO effective, and should therefor be renamed Cheesadi.

It's quite funny - go into eToR on live and toss a 55dc disco in the center. Kite the giants through it and eventually one will dance - it just rolled a 1.

Good thing there's a 20LR stick I can dump my 3 spell pen feats and 5 dc feats (keeping 2 necro for lich) with. Hmm, I could prolly hit 3500 sp and 1k hp buffed with the mental toughness line and plural toughness feats...

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Carpone]

I didn't have much time to check them out.

However, some of them had CR 70+ Mobs. I was shocked really.

What's mobs saves? And DCs of their spells? Their damage output? Their speed/SA dmg?

EE Lines of Supply: Archer arrows hit for 60, berserkers hit for 300 and the giant end boss (CR78) hits for 400+ before damage reduction. The CR77 Harpy Matriarch is pain incarnate with her spells.

[Wizza]

EE Lines of Supply: Archer arrows hit for 60, berserkers hit for 300 and the giant end boss (CR78) hits for 400+ before damage reduction. The CR77 Harpy Matriarch is pain incarnate with her spells.

What? Archers hitting for 60? CR78 for 400 damage?

What in the hell were Devs thinking. We got 3 useless levels, not 30. This is so ********.

[Carpone]

What? Archers hitting for 60? CR78 for 400 damage?

What in the hell were Devs thinking. We got 3 useless levels, not 30. This is so ********.

Damage avoidance and damage mitigation are now required instead of 'nice to have'. It's a better direction than stacking HP to obscene totals.

The biggest gripe I have with Shadowfell quest content is mob density. One of the Wheloon quests I killed 159 mobs and didn't even get Aggression. 169 mobs killed in two Stormhorn quests only netted an Onslaught bonus. Mob density does not equate to entertainment. It simply makes the quest feel one dimensional.

[maddmatt70]

Bah just take a bunch of sorc types and aoe nuke the lower hit points mobs to death that is if their saves are too high for aoe insta kill. Gather and cluster em up and bomb em. When I heard that they had increased the number of mobs and decreased their hit points the history of ddo is nuke em.

[Seikojin]

Damage avoidance and damage mitigation are now required instead of 'nice to have'. It's a better direction than stacking HP to obscene totals.

The biggest gripe I have with Shadowfell quest content is mob density. One of the Wheloon quests I killed 159 mobs and didn't even get Aggression. 169 mobs killed in two Stormhorn quests only netted an Onslaught bonus. Mob density does not equate to entertainment. It simply makes the quest feel one dimensional.

Did you go alone on these? If you didn't how did the party faire?