Debate Bards - mainly spellsinger/charisma based will they ever get some dev love.

[idle1]

So I wanted to post this on the main forums to get peoples attention and hopefully spark a debate about the poor man of DDO. Barely anyone plays bards unless going for completion and everyone I seem to talk to in groups goes on about how bad that life was. I've done 2 lifes as a charisma bard, and while the heals and occasional added abit of cc can be nice, most of the times I just felt like I was piking my way to 20.

The main problem with bards is every other class has ways of killing mobs, where as a charisma based bard has no way to compete. No one usually bothers to wait for songs to buff, and they are pointless in most groups for cc as the songs take too long to work. Given that all the other "casters" (even artis) are getting SLAs now so they can always do something when low on mana, all a bard really gets to work with is a lvl 1 sonic blast which hits for like 40, all the way to lvl 16 when we get the only decent spell greater shout that might hit for 100. (Shout is useless.)

Sure I can toss hastes, or the helpful heal and UMD, but so can other classes and they can still deal some damage. I was hoping with the enchantment pass bards might have got a little love, so every time I dont join a group I hear "wow someones playing a bard?" but it seems that spellsinger hasn't gotten much love. Sure we got some of the virt prestige class stuff but it doesn't solve the issue at all with regards to damage. I've heard they were adding more sonic damage spells (sonic wall?) or that bard weapons might use cha to hit damage? I mean if purple dragon knights can use cha to damage, and rangers/rogue can use dex, whats the problem in bards getting that as an option to pump out a little damage when needed. It really would go a long way towards fixing the issue.

Please feel free to post thoughts. I don't need advice on playing, I done 2+ lives and cced and healed the old epics etc. I just want to see more bards around! All classes should have a minor damage option.

(Excuse my english please hehe.)

[krontan]

I play a Bard as my main character on 2 different servers. I use the same build on both servers too. They are warchanters and I dont have any problems putting out damage with a two handed weapon. I do use my songs for buffs and if someone does not want to wait on them to finish then they miss a buff, but I get mine. I also dont cast alot of spells outside of the usual buffs.

[Toro12]

So I wanted to post this on the main forums to get peoples attention and hopefully spark a debate about the poor man of DDO. Barely anyone plays bards unless going for completion and everyone I seem to talk to in groups goes on about how bad that life was. I've done 2 lifes as a charisma bard, and while the heals and occasional added abit of cc can be nice, most of the times I just felt like I was piking my way to 20.

The main problem with bards is every other class has ways of killing mobs, where as a charisma based bard has no way to compete. No one usually bothers to wait for songs to buff, and they are pointless in most groups for cc as the songs take too long to work. Given that all the other "casters" (even artis) are getting SLAs now so they can always do something when low on mana, all a bard really gets to work with is a lvl 1 sonic blast which hits for like 40, all the way to lvl 16 when we get the only decent spell greater shout that might hit for 100. (Shout is useless.)

Sure I can toss hastes, or the helpful heal and UMD, but so can other classes and they can still deal some damage. I was hoping with the enchantment pass bards might have got a little love, so every time I dont join a group I hear "wow someones playing a bard?" but it seems that spellsinger hasn't gotten much love. Sure we got some of the virt prestige class stuff but it doesn't solve the issue at all with regards to damage. I've heard they were adding more sonic damage spells (sonic wall?) or that bard weapons might use cha to hit damage? I mean if purple dragon knights can use cha to damage, and rangers/rogue can use dex, whats the problem in bards getting that as an option to pump out a little damage when needed. It really would go a long way towards fixing the issue.

Please feel free to post thoughts. I don't need advice on playing, I done 2+ lives and cced and healed the old epics etc. I just want to see more bards around! All classes should have a minor damage option.

(Excuse my english please hehe.)

Wall of Sound - Creates a wall of sound This spell does 2 to 8 Sonic damage plus 1 additional point of damage per caster level (up to a max of 25 additional points at caster level 25) to enemies. Oozes are particularly susceptible to the pitch of the sound, and take an additional 2 to 8 Sonic damage. In addition, enemies caught in the Wall of Sound may begin dancing on a failed Will save, and become slowed thereafter on a failed Fortitude save.

[HatsuharuZ]

It would be nice if bards had more evocation spells available to them. In terms of damage, the sonic spells they currently have are at the bottom of the heap.

[EnziteBob]

So I wanted to post this on the main forums to get peoples attention and hopefully spark a debate about the poor man of DDO. Barely anyone plays bards unless going for completion and everyone I seem to talk to in groups goes on about how bad that life was. I've done 2 lifes as a charisma bard, and while the heals and occasional added abit of cc can be nice, most of the times I just felt like I was piking my way to 20.

The main problem with bards is every other class has ways of killing mobs, where as a charisma based bard has no way to compete. No one usually bothers to wait for songs to buff, and they are pointless in most groups for cc as the songs take too long to work. Given that all the other "casters" (even artis) are getting SLAs now so they can always do something when low on mana, all a bard really gets to work with is a lvl 1 sonic blast which hits for like 40, all the way to lvl 16 when we get the only decent spell greater shout that might hit for 100. (Shout is useless.)

Sure I can toss hastes, or the helpful heal and UMD, but so can other classes and they can still deal some damage. I was hoping with the enchantment pass bards might have got a little love, so every time I dont join a group I hear "wow someones playing a bard?" but it seems that spellsinger hasn't gotten much love. Sure we got some of the virt prestige class stuff but it doesn't solve the issue at all with regards to damage. I've heard they were adding more sonic damage spells (sonic wall?) or that bard weapons might use cha to hit damage? I mean if purple dragon knights can use cha to damage, and rangers/rogue can use dex, whats the problem in bards getting that as an option to pump out a little damage when needed. It really would go a long way towards fixing the issue.

Please feel free to post thoughts. I don't need advice on playing, I done 2+ lives and cced and healed the old epics etc. I just want to see more bards around! All classes should have a minor damage option.

(Excuse my english please hehe.)

first off the right weapon makes all the difference. Yes you are not going to be able to do the same damage as melees, but if you use weapons that do stat damage it will help you and the party. Once I got to 21 with my last bard I used Blade of the High Priestess http://ddowiki.com/images/Blade_of_t..._Priestess.png




it helped a lot. Oh and you could roll up a purple dragon knight bard they can use charisma for damage.

[nichefish]

I play a Bard as my main character on 2 different servers. I use the same build on both servers too. They are warchanters and I dont have any problems putting out damage with a two handed weapon. I do use my songs for buffs and if someone does not want to wait on them to finish then they miss a buff, but I get mine. I also dont cast alot of spells outside of the usual buffs.

you're talking about melee-specced bard, which is totally in different category.
don't melee-specced bard usually dump out their spell dc and use all their sp only to buff and self-heal?
he's talking about charisma-based bard, cc-ing and healing with sp.

[nichefish]

one possible solution can be "to make suggestion's dc properly scale to epic elite" (based on perform?). at now it just meh and nobody's using it.
or.. just purchase purple dragon knight iconic for cha-modified esos... turbine might appreciate your cash.

[Atremus]

Oh and you could roll up a purple dragon knight bard they can use charisma for damage.

This is probably what I'll do once we can TR into [and out of] Iconics.

[Gwyxxx]

Actually my pure spellsinger bard is levelling Fury of The Wild.
The Boulder Toss With Twilight in my hands is about 1000/1200 dmg
I have twisted too the Draconic 4th tier acid
And I used improperly Primal Scream to do sonic damage against boss
I don't try all the quest, but i go well in normal and decent in hard (sometimes alone, sometimes with an hire, expecially the rogue for taking xp from the traps)
Cooldowns anyway are a little bit painfull... but with sense weakness at least i can do a little dps.
Obviusly primal scream and sense weakness will be lost when i will change destiny, but the combo Boulder Toss + Acid Draconic is decent

My other spellsinger bless can't twist this thing yet and leveling her it will be a long thing.
When i'll can tr PDK my first bard will rest pure, the blesser will become a 16/2/2 (Bard/PDK/Rogue)

Blade of the High Priestess?
I tried to used it on my rogue. Paralyzing effect is nice, but most of monster in epic hard were immune to damage stat...

When i was young (a years ago) in my guild there was a very good bard (spellisinger!)... he had also an antique greataxe on his character... maybe someday i will try how it works.

And yes. Sonic spells don't work.
New slas are allways good.
But let's try to maximize that we have.

[96th_Malice]

AA spell singer is the way to go !!

[Gwyxxx]

AA spell singer is the way to go !!

But you can do it and crowd control?
How many feat you need for a decent archer?
- non a retoric question, i've never examined this option -

[Pilgrim1]

But you can do it and crowd control?
How many feat you need for a decent archer?
- non a retoric question, i've never examined this option -

I have been poking around on lama with a 14 bard/6 ranger spell singer bard in fury of the wild. Basically twf and manyshot. I geared it to the teath, because its lama land of course, but it has been performing really well and is really fun. Even tried soloing a few EE quests and its not out of the range of possibilities.

Currently I'm wondering what kind of splits might be most optimal with this...
12bard/6ranger/2fighter
14bard/6ranger (+1 IC)
15bard/something (inspire heroics + epic +2 stat song)
16 bard/2ranger/fighter (irresistible dance!)
18bard/2 ranger (vertious from spell singer for more songs and better duration)

just some random ideas. A pure bard twf/manyshot would rock but there really is not enough feats for this, also ranger splashing is amazing.

[96th_Malice]

But you can do it and crowd control?
How many feat you need for a decent archer?
- non a retoric question, i've never examined this option -

Mine is 16 bard / 2 fighter /2 ranger

Crowd control is incredible

The only thing that is lacking is a high strength ..... I mean I'm still a 32 at lvl 24 ..... For a bard that's decent ..... For any other ranged type it's a little lacking.

Actually lack of evasion can hurt as well on EEs ... So you need to be careful or let others do their job before zerging ahead

Still have

Rapid shot
Bow strength
Manyshot
Improved precise shot
Slayer arrows
Fascinate
High UMD

Best part is .... You can song / heal / pew pew pew all from a distance

Plus all the spell singer benefits

[supott]

I tried a 12 bard 6 ranger 2 rogue with I.precise shot. Very fun. Lvl ups in Str.

I like the multiclass possibilities of Bard and the buffs and Fascinate is great..

But back to the original topic: CHA based bards, i agree they are weak. He's just a weaker sorcerer or wizard. the wiz can cast the same spells with better DC. The buffs don't make up for it. The spellsong vigor though is exceptional and i love it..

Wall of Sound really doesn't sound Great at all...

Wail of the Banshee - Very much needed... Only Wail is horribly bugged... How lucky for the bards!

Fatesinger is good though - but not for the Cha caster bard. Its good for a Str based esp. 2 handed fighting (6 ranger) because of the tier 3 Lightning strikes on Vorpals.

It's still possible to have a bit of melee i guess on a Cha Bard. I guess u just really don't dump Str.. 12-16 Str and you should be fine with the buffs.. Power attack. Same as a Cleric who dumps Str because they're a healbot. It doesn't take much to put 14 Str and it can go a long way.

[FestusHood]

Wail of the Banshee - Very much needed... Only Wail is horribly bugged... How lucky for the bards!

I just read a post within the last few days that wail is working perfectly now on lammania.

[Gwyxxx]

Mine is 16 bard / 2 fighter /2 ranger

Crowd control is incredible

The only thing that is lacking is a high strength ..... I mean I'm still a 32 at lvl 24 ..... For a bard that's decent ..... For any other ranged type it's a little lacking.

Actually lack of evasion can hurt as well on EEs ... So you need to be careful or let others do their job before zerging ahead

Still have

Rapid shot
Bow strength
Manyshot
Improved precise shot
Slayer arrows
Fascinate
High UMD

Best part is .... You can song / heal / pew pew pew all from a distance

Plus all the spell singer benefits

If CC is fascinate and Irrestistible Dance, this is a very good combo
But... ops... i can't use fascinate if there is allways a melee with area damage dps around... and i don't speak of pugs, but my usual party friend XD

It's very interesting anyway
If i wasn't converting my rogue in archer, i could do it also for my bard...
I'll think of it.

[96th_Malice]

If CC is fascinate and Irrestistible Dance, this is a very good combo
But... ops... i can't use fascinate if there is allways a melee with area damage dps around... and i don't speak of pugs, but my usual party friend XD

It's very interesting anyway
If i wasn't converting my rogue in archer, i could do it also for my bard...
I'll think of it.

Yes ...... You need a group that understands the concept of crowd control for sure!!!

What route are you going with your rogue ? .... I ask because I've had an AA rogue sitting collecting dust over the last 2 years. Currently 6 ranger .... 6 rogue with ZERO idea of an end game for the toon.

I thought an AA that could do traps was a great idea , BUT my Arti AA kinda killed off the rogue toon.