Some new items - and hit and miss

[Systern]

Base comparison to Needle vs this repeater:

Needle:                                                Trapsmith
2.5[1d12] = 16.25 avg +7/8                     3[1d10] = 16.5 + 0 (+6 if Pure Artificer)
Speed Modifiers:  20% alacrity (*1.14)         9% doubleshot  (~4.5% since repeaters are less affected than bows)
Spellcasting Implement = 21/24                 0
Additonal Effects:  
    Hemm/Phlebot +2/3d8                         Stat damage

An Artificer's conjured bolts take care of the weapon not having a +enhancement on it, but they lose the spell casting implement.
Rogue Mechanics won't care about the Spellcasting Implement, but won't be able to get better than +3 bolts from House D.

My biggest quibble with this repeater is that it's the 5th named epic repeater. Epic Silver Slinger is niche and purpose built. Needle is pure damage. These three, Epic Doublecross, Slaver's Hand crossbow, and Trapsmith's all share a poison/stat damage theme. Stat damage is completely trivialized by Epic Ward in difficulties above Epic Normal.

So, basically, this new crossbow will clear up slayers the best, but Needle, even un-upgraded is still a better all-arounder (which maybe raid loot should be).

[oradafu]

That's one of my main issues with the new stuff. EGH is generally better and 3-4 levels lower.

And unless you're new to the game, it was unlikely that you paid for GH when it was upgraded. But an Expansion that involves real money to access, the loot is junk.

Before someone jumps all over the "do you want us to pay for Epicifying old packs?", that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that at least the same amount of time and effort (if not more) that was put into Epic GH would have been placed into an Expansion that so far is only justified as an Expansion by all the stuff that will be available if no one had paid for the Expansion from the get-go.

[FlaviusMaximus]

To address the 12 newest items, since that is what this thread is about;

The tactics ring seems pretty decent. I would actually love to see it come in different flavors like the dun'robar rings. A vertigo version, stun version, and sunder version would add a lot of appeal, in my opinion.

The scimitar seems appealing for boss fights.

I would consider changing the save dropping abilities on the maul to trigger more than once every few seconds if the idea is for a melee caster, such as a Morninglord Elf, to swing the maul around a bit before casting spells on enemies with weakened saves. If a player has to swing too long to reduce the saves then there may reach a point when the spells aren't worth casting anymore.

I'm glad to see that the CITW weapons are not being replaced by the new gear. They are powerful and shouldn't be rendered obsolete a scant year later.

The average 40 elemental damage from the monk wraps, plus the red slot potentially adding more elemental damage make them interesting. Yes, stunning would have to come from elsewhere, but an extra 40+ damage per hit is nothing to scoff at.

On that note, if you guys start making tactical rubies for red slots, you are going to make a lot of sales in the store.

[LightBear]

The named items from update 19 are still better then the normal generated items at those level.
Normal generated items will either have a prefix, a suffix or when you're lucky have both of them.
At least the named items from this update will have at least that one thing extra on it and possibly two or more, right?

Overall I would say:
- Drop the +20 skill permutation on all of these items, they're just so so.
Except for spellcraft I guess as that's nowhere to be found unless "Old" named items have this updated to them.
- The plusses to armor on jewelery and clothing is a lost nowadays.
Most, if not all, named dresses and named outfits have this themselves.
If it would add a shield bonus or if it would add an always stacking PRR you would have had a winner.

Goatskin Boots (Feet):
Speed XV (constant)
Green Aug slot (constant)
Colorless Aug slot (constant)
Permutations: <STR|DEX|CON> +8, Armor +10, <Fire|Cold|Electric|Acid|Sonic> Resist +40, 115% Fortification

- 10 permutations? I guess it will tailor a lot of builds.
The new must have boots have arrived, it's just a question of getting the right pair.
I guess a lot of females will want a pair in every color.

Gloves of the Master Illusionist (Hand)
INT +11 (constant)
Illusion Focus +5 (constant)
Yellow Aug slot (constant)
Permutations: None

- 0 permutations? Was really hoping to see some permutations to the schools and the stat (limited to int, cha and wis) here or see some matching new spells being released with this.
Looks at the Nether Orb, looks at these gloves, looks at the Nether Orb again.
***! These will be found cheap on AH real fast.

Prismastic Cloak, Blue (Back)
Cold Absorption 30% (constant)
Green Aug slot (constant)
Permutations: +10 Resistance, Natural Armor +10, +10 Competence to-hit, Bluff +20, Concentration +20, Diplomacy +20, Intimidate +20, Spot +20, Search +20, Haggle +20, Spellcraft +20, Heal +20, Listen +20, Wizardry X.

There are blue (cold), red (fire), grey (sonic), green (acid) and violet (electric) variations of the cloak.

- The Absorption is way to low, aren't there level 9 items that surpass this by 3%?
Should be around 50% at this level.
The Permutations are not that good to be wearing one of these cloaks all the time.
The colors are all wrong on these cloaks. It should be white (cold), red (fire), purple (sonic), green (acid) and blue (electric). Not sure about sonic, but electric and cold are off what we are used to.

Consuming Darkness (Ring)
Seeker XII (constant)
Combat Mastery +5 (constant)
Green Aug slot (constant)
Permutations: None

- Nice item, it misses a roll of 20 effect or even better a 5% chance of proccing effect.
There isn't anything consuming or dark about this ring.

Glorious Dawn (Ring)
Deathblock VI (Deathblock + 18% neg energy absorb) (constant)
Green Aug slot (constant)
Acid Guard VIII (constant)
Permutations: None

- Acid Guard VIII should be a permutation as it would then be in pair with the cloaks.
18% neg energy absorption is way to low for this level, it should be 36%.
Must have Radiance guard X as a constant.

Prisoner's Manacles (Wrist)
Incite +30% (constant)
Reinforced Fists (constant)
Green Aug (constant)
Colorless Aug (constant)
Permutations: +45 <specific> resistance, +9 <STR|CON|DEX>, 120% Fortification, Armor +11

- Yet another item that has Reinforced Fists, for the monks it would be nice if they would stack for a change.

Shadowsight (Goggles)
WIS +11 (constant)
Accuracy X (constant)
Green Aug (constant)
Ethereal (constant)
Permutations: None

- Nice goggles, +11 at wis is nothing to be sniffed at.
The other affixes are a nice bonus on them, I am missing the permutations.
Tho I can't name the permutations I would like to see here.

Stolen Necklace (Neck)
CHA +10 (constant)
Yellow Aug (constant)
Permutations: Accuracy IX, Resistance +9, Wizardry IX, Bluff +19, Intimidate +19, Search +19, Spot +19, Natural Armor +9, Haggle +19, Listen +19, Spellcraft +19

- Something tells me there's a +1 better item of this out there as well.
If not... shame on you,
if so... welcome to the grind.

Shade's Hood (Head)
Resistance +9 (constant)
Green Aug (constant)
Yellow Aug (constant)
Permutations: +45 <specific> Resistance

- Nice but nothing special, should have a curse to spellcraft on it as we all know Shade's mathigian skills. And it should then have Alien mind.

Nether Orb (offhand)
Reg Aug (constant)
Spell Lore X (constant)
Energy Siphon XII (constant)
Permutations: +5 <Transmutation|Conjuration|Enhancement|Necromanc y| Evocation> Focus,

- This item makes the gloves of the master Illusionist obsolete by a huge leap.
This is the new to have off hand item for any spell caster, wish this was the gloves and not an orb.

Skullduggery Kit (Waist)
Exceptional INT skill +6 (constant)
Exceptional DEX skill +6 (constant)
Green Aug (constant)
Permutations: Seeker X, Tumble +20, Protection +10, Hide +20, Open Lock +20, Move Silently +20, Repair +20, Swim +20, Disable Device +20, Speed X, Dodge +10%, Hit Points +50

- Missing Exceptional CHA skill +6 (constant).
Drop the skill plus on this item, the other permutations are very nice.

Still thinking about the weapons, will post it as soon as I have written it down.

[Urjak]

My opinion on the items so far:

The Shades Hood:
Nice, but somehow lacking in overall power ... after all it has to compete with eGH dragon helmets ... imo it should at least have ghostly as well ... or even ghostly + blurry/lesser displacement ... that would make it much more desirable and would fit the theme.

Shadowsight Goggles:
Wisdom +11 is very cool ... but ethereal and accuracy are more or less useless ... change accuracy X to deadly X and add Greater Incorporal Bane ... would both fit the theme and make it much more desirable

Glorious Dawn:
Probably the worst item so far ... at the very least give it something like a deathward clicky with high caster level (CL27, 3/day) ... then I could finally bank my Fleshrender Goggles^^

Trapsmiths Crossbow:
*Sigh* why has it to be always poison damage? ... it is a trapsmiths weapon ... so imo a fun idea to upgrade this item would be a low proc chance to spawn high level random traps (those that high level rogue mechanics can craft) ... would imo be a fun addition!

The Morning Star:
Well, I was so totally looking forward to this ... finally an epic shuriken ... but this is a total disappointment :/ ... eveningstar challenge shuriken are by far and wide better ... personally I was hoping for a shuriken that would be better vs. bosses, as the spelltouched shuriken are very good vs. trash but weak vs. bosses who resist most of the additional damage ... upgrade the damage profile to 2[1d4]+8, 19-20/x3 or 2[1d4]+8, 18-20/x2 and it will be at least somewhat desireable ... add metalline into the mix (additionally ofc) and lots of people will grind for it ...

First Blood:
Doublestrike 15% is cool ... but given that the overall damage is kinda lacking ... expand the base crit range by one and add a red slot ...

Prison Break:
At least from its icon it looks like it should deal piercing and slashing damage ... apart from that ... such a cruesome weapon might do with limb chopper and hemorrhaging as an addition

Prisoners Manacles:
Upgrade the attribute bonuses to at least +10 and remove the armor bonus +11 from the random effects list ...

Stolen Necklace:
If you decide to make an epic elite necklace with such few effects and only a yellow slot ... those effects should really be awesome => increase the charisma bonus by 1 (=> EN: 9, EH: 10, EE: 11) and change the random effects list to: natural armor bonus +10, protection +10, resistance +10, wizardry IX, spellcraft +19 ... maybe also repair +19, perform +19 and heal +19 ... but the other ones are just garbage for potential wearers of this item (fvs, bards and sorcerers)

Fell Shiv:
Well greater vorpal is cool and the list of random effects is cool as well ... yet it is still lacking compared to other weapons ... consider increasing its base die size and enhancement bonus => 3[1d6]+7 would make this item a lot more attractive ... give its broad design ... maybe even a higher crit multiplier (19-20/x3) ...

Skullduggery Belt:
This one looks like it is intended to be swapped in for disabling hard EE traps and opening hard EE locks ... thus I would suggest: change the random effect to be randomly two of the following: search +20, disable device +20, open lock +20 or if you want to be really nice ... change it to be randomly either: search + disable device + open lock +20 or move silently + hide + tumble +20 ... (then there would be two possible drops: one trapper belt and one belt for sneaking ... both only situationally useful ... but at least in those situation this would be the best item ...)

Frostbite Blade:
Looks interesting as is ... maybe increase the enhancement bonus to +8 ... but no biggy if not ..

Prismatic Cloak:
To make this one really worthwhile a lot has to change :/ ... first give it a resistance to the element it absorbs as well (+40/+45/+50 for en/eh/ee seems fitting) ... add resistance +11 and change the random effects list to: deadly X, natural armor bonus X, wizardry X, concentration +20, heal +20, spellcraft +20

Magistrates Scepter:
IMO very weak atm ... themetically fitting: add true seeing (after all the magistrate must see throw all disguises), spot +20 (and notice them), protection from chaos (would be really bad if he gets mind controlled) and finally upgrade axiomatic V to axiomatic X ... plus maybe a clicky: circle of protection from chaos, CL: 28, 3/day ...

Masters Riposte:
Well this one is clearly meant as a defensive weapon ... yet to tank a boss you still need to do enough damage to hold aggro ... consider adding incite 40% ...

Shield of Morning:
hmmm ... maybe add another slot?

Gloves of the Master Illusionist:
Int +11 is awesome ... but illusion is a kinda weak school and only a yellow slot ... consider adding spell focus V to a random 2nd school ... and on epic elite upgrade the yellow to a green slot ... or add a colorless one

Goatskin Boots:
Considering that this one drops from the final and hardest quest of the new ones ... it should really be awesome ... speed XV is a good start ... maybe add primal bonus to armor class +3 and balance +20 ... oh and please change the random effects list so that only elemental resists are possible ... noone needs armor bonus +10 on these boots!

Thunder and Lightning:
Not bad! ... if they just were flametouched iron threaded and had stunning +10 ...

Elemental Fury:
Actually a really cool short sword ... in my test vs. dojo-kobolds it did more dps than celestia^^ (though ofc in actual quests many if not most mobs and especially bosses are immune or at least resistant to part of elemental furys dps ...) ... thus imo a cool twist would be: elemental resistance breaking: your attacks ignore the first 20 points of energy resistance your target has ... oh and why does an epic elite weapon only have an +5 enhancement bonus? it should be at least +7

Giant's Fist:
First: the enhancement bonus of +4 is a bad joke ... this has to go way up to at least +7 ... then increase the die size to 4[1d12] or 4[2d6] ... and finally add bonebreaking (VI or higher)

Nether Orb:
Looks good to me!

Consuming Darkness:
Consider increasing the combat mastery by one and adding a second augment slot ...

All in all nice work ... but as you can see there is still a lot to do ... hope some changes can make it into the release ... after all this "expansion" was quite expensive :/

[Wizza]

People, release is next Monday. This is the final version of the items. Put your souls at peace, this is what Shadowfell Conspiracy will look like on live. And if they do change them (ah, this made me laugh), they will nowhere look like your suggestions. Give it a rest.

On top of this, to make these items worthwile they would have to re-work them from the start. It's not happening, now or never.

And to the people that so far screamed "yessss randoooom yuuuhu" that now suggests how to change them: you are giving the rest of the community a well and long laugh. I applaud your hypocrisy.

[CoasterHops]

People, release is next Monday. This is the final version of the items. Put your souls at peace, this is what Shadowfell Conspiracy will look like on live. And if they do change them (ah, this made me laugh), they will nowhere look like your suggestions. Give it a rest.

On top of this, to make these items worthwile they would have to re-work them from the start. It's not happening, now or never.

And to the people that so far screamed "yessss randoooom yuuuhu" that now suggests how to change them: you are giving the rest of the community a well and long laugh. I applaud your hypocrisy.

Where is the hypocrisy in suggesting changes to items?

That's not hypocrisy..... it's trying to improve whats there, twelve of these new items have been created and only two have variable (not random) effects yet you continue to spout on about random effects being the problem, seriously I think you need to get over it already.

PS. You haven't proven your math in the other thread yet, you know the one where you told me to learn math.....

[Wizza]

Where is the hypocrisy in suggesting changes to items?

That's not hypocrisy..... it's trying to improve whats there, twelve of these new items have been created and only two have variable (not random) effects yet you continue to spout on about random effects being the problem, seriously I think you need to get over it already.

PS. You haven't proven your math in the other thread yet, you know the one where you told me to learn math.....

Yes, yes. Hypocrisy at its best. You are asking them to change what you liked so far is hypocrisy. Asking them to REMOVE SOME OF THE RANDOM EFFECTS that you loved so far is hypocrisy. Screaming "I luvz them" before even seeing the whole list of effects is hypocrisy. Assuming that you would have only "2 or 3" effects in list and then asking them to change them after seeing them is hypocrisy.

Sorry. You are giving me a good one thou. You loved them until...they sucked so much for you after seeing them? How do you call that? To me, that's hypocrisy at its best.

[CoasterHops]

Yes, yes. Hypocrisy at its best. You are asking them to change what you liked so far is hypocrisy. Asking them to REMOVE SOME OF THE RANDOM EFFECTS that you loved so far is hypocrisy. Screaming "I luvz them" before even seeing the whole list of effects is hypocrisy. Assuming that you would have only "2 or 3" effects in list and then asking them to change them after seeing them is hypocrisy.

Sorry. You are giving me a good one thou. You loved them until...they sucked so much for you after seeing them? How do you call that? To me, that's hypocrisy at its best.

Nope I have always advocated a small number of useful variable effects, so there is no hypocrisy your reading is becoming like your math flawed.

Where have I stated that I no longer want variable effects or that a large number of variable effects is good? You are blinded by your crusade, you need to step back a bit I believe.

[Wizza]

Nope I have always advocated a small number of useful variable effects, so there is no hypocrisy your reading is becoming like your math flawed.

Where have I stated that I no longer want variable effects or that a large number of variable effects is good? You are blinded by your crusade, you need to step back a bit I believe.

Blinded? Not really.

It's you and the ones like you who are blind. I've stated from the first day that there wouldn't be a small number of useful effects but they were much more like ES challenges. And I was right.

You are the one stating that you loved them no matter what.

Make up your mind would you. You are not making any sense.

[CoasterHops]

Blinded? Not really.

It's you and the ones like you who are blind. I've stated from the first day that there wouldn't be a small number of useful effects but they were much more like ES challenges. And I was right.

You are the one stating that you loved them no matter what.

Make up your mind would you. You are not making any sense.

No I have always stated that I liked a small number of useful variable effects, I still wonder why you are spouting on about random effects though when only two of the twelve newly posted items have *variable* effects. Your crusade is over, we get what we get. Theres just as many items without variable effects so you won, you got what you wanted.

[Wizza]

No I have always stated that I liked a small number of useful variable effects, I still wonder why you are spouting on about random effects though when only two of the twelve newly posted items have *variable* effects. Your crusade is over, we get what we get. Theres just as many items without variable effects so you won, you got what you wanted.

You are forgetting the old trash Named items

10 old items (the ones in the thread started by Squeak) have all one or even 2 random effects.

22 items total (IIRC, I haven't counted the cloaks as 5 items but just one) and 12 of them are Random. More than 50% of them.

I didn't bother to double check numbers but of these 22 items, there are 2 that are worth something for a few people:

Nether's Orb
Goatskin boots


Not a static single NAMED ITEM with Cha +11. No Evocation +5, no Necro, ench +5 (the most wanteds spell schools). No deadly XI (the MOST USEFUL EFFECT for every kind of melee/ranged/unarmed player). I also can't recall a static STR +11 item, a DEX +11.

Now, leaving aside the Randomness that sucks, these items make no sense in every point of view.

[CoasterHops]

You are forgetting the old trash Named items

10 old items (the ones in the thread started by Squeak) have all one or even 2 random effects.

22 items total (IIRC, I haven't counted the cloaks as 5 items but just one) and 12 of them are Random. More than 50% of them.

I didn't bother to double check numbers but of these 22 items, there are 2 that are worth something for a few people:

Nether's Orb
Goatskin boots


Not a static single NAMED ITEM with Cha +11. No Evocation +5, no Necro, ench +5 (the most wanteds spell schools). No deadly XI (the MOST USEFUL EFFECT for every kind of melee/ranged/unarmed player). I also can't recall a static STR +11 item, a DEX +11.

Now, leaving aside the Randomness that sucks, these items make no sense in every point of view.

Lol well now we can actually agree on something, many of the items are underwhelming and I don't really believe it's to do with variable effects.
Strangely enough the items that you have actually stated are worth something both have variable effects, in the case of the Nether Orb this is the sort of variable effect I was always advocating for.

Now those stupid skills +20 variables are shocking, it's not the sort of thing I would advocate as a variable effect, but it looks like we are getting what we are getting.
Theres some semi decent stuff but all and all nothing that makes you sit up and go "WOW".

[Wizza]

Lol well now we can actually agree on something, many of the items are underwhelming and I don't really believe it's to do with variable effects.
Strangely enough the items that you have actually stated are worth something both have variable effects, in the case of the Nether Orb this is the sort of variable effect I was always advocating for.

Now those stupid skills +20 variables are shocking, it's not the sort of thing I would advocate as a variable effect, but it looks like we are getting what we are getting.
Theres some semi decent stuff but all and all nothing that makes you sit up and go "WOW".

There are 2 items that would benefit from Random effects like GH helms:

Gloves of the Illusionist.

Make it:

Int/Cha/Wis +11 AND Enchantment/Necro/Evo +5

Goatskin boots

Speed XV
Deadly XI
STR/DEX/WIS +11
No slot

And there you go, 2 items that will now be useful.

Sorry but the items are not decent. When noone wants to use any of them but 2, that means the rest of the items are vendor trash.

[CoasterHops]

There are 2 items that would benefit from Random effects like GH helms:

Gloves of the Illusionist.

Make it:

Int/Cha/Wis +11 AND Enchantment/Necro/Evo +5

Goatskin boots

Speed XV
Deadly XI
STR/DEX/WIS +11
No slot

And there you go, 2 items that will now be useful.

Sorry but the items are not decent. When noone wants to use any of them but 2, that means the rest of the items are vendor trash.

I think items that look decent are:
-The Scimmy
-The Bastard Sword
-The Seeker 12, Combat Mastery 5 Ring, of course it could have been awesome if it was buffed just a little to CBM 7.
-The Nether Orb
-The Goatskin Boots
-The Elemental Fury SS, could pump out some nice damage on mobs that have no elemental immunity.

So to me that's a few, not a heap but a few..

[Wizza]

I think items that look decent are:
-The Scimmy
-The Bastard Sword
-The Seeker 12, Combat Mastery 5 Ring, of course it could have been awesome if it was buffed just a little to CBM 7.
-The Nether Orb
-The Goatskin Boots
-The Elemental Fury SS, could pump out some nice damage on mobs that have no elemental immunity.

So to me that's a few, not a heap but a few..

Scimitar is the only one that could be decent.

- Ring? Dun'robar is vastly superior. Seeker 12 can be found somewhere else. So: not unique, not a slot consolidator. It's nothing.
- Bastard sword is useless. Doublestrike 15% does not make up for this trash item
- Elemental Fury is WAAAY behind DPS. Another vendor item.

[Ghwyn]

Seems like the devs are listening to what I often read about. One thing is power creep and another is making current gear obsolete. The new gear seems fix those two issues, but now all I read about is stuff not being OP enough to be worth getting. I really hope the devs keep doing their thing and realize that almost all forum complainers are useless.

[Wizza]

Seems like the devs are listening to what I often read about. One thing is power creep and another is making current gear obsolete. The new gear seems fix those two issues, but now all I read about is stuff not being OP enough to be worth getting. I really hope the devs keep doing their thing and realize that almost all forum complainers are useless.

Not sure who you are talking about.

But, this fix power creep? +11 Stat, +5 DC, +10 dmg per hit? Yeah, sure

Btw, I never complained about Power creep I like striving for the best gear so I welcome any good gear.

[Gwyxxx]

Seems like the devs are listening to what I often read about. One thing is power creep and another is making current gear obsolete. The new gear seems fix those two issues, but now all I read about is stuff not being OP enough to be worth getting. I really hope the devs keep doing their thing and realize that almost all forum complainers are useless.

When random items are stronger than named, something is wrong.
If the best in U19 was a +9 stat in random loot, then a +10 charisma necklace were wonderful.
+10 charisma namede with +11 random loot is useless
Is so difficult to understand?

[patang01]

Blinded? Not really.

It's you and the ones like you who are blind. I've stated from the first day that there wouldn't be a small number of useful effects but they were much more like ES challenges. And I was right.

You are the one stating that you loved them no matter what.

Make up your mind would you. You are not making any sense.

Guys, I didn't start this thread to pit players with a grudge against each others - it was me telling Turbine to rethink their loot. Especially since this is an expansion pack. And if this is the quality we can expect from other money grabs in the future I'm sure most players will hesitate before the invest any money in it. The haphazard release of 12 new items kind of indicate that this was poorly conceived in the first place.