Lolwut???

[Postumus]

This quoted bit above? At best, it's a misunderstanding or misstatement. At worst, it's a straight up lie, but either way, it's amazingly inaccurate.

Yeah, but only because you set the parameters to lose-lose. :P


There are multiple players (who have posted in the forums), myself included, who don't have a problem with the enhancement pass despite some nerfs and changes. A lot of the posts in the LAM threads by people previewing the enhancements have feedback (as was requested), but as usual, only a tiny handful of people are in an tizzy about it and try to dominate the boards with their personal nerd rage.

[Therigar]

Yes, the enhancement should be pushed up to the 8th tier...come on now. A more elaborate tooltip is all that is needed to clear up any confusion with these enhancements.

As for the Divine Might discussion, a level of Cleric or an epic destiny twist grants Turn Undead regardless of Paladin level.

Let's start with the DM discussion. It is ludicrous IMO that a 1/1 cleric/paladin should get DM when either pure class cannot. If that doesn't seem like poor game design to you then we'll just have to be in disagreement.

As to the tier, the UI is set to 5 levels and, IMO, what is in those levels should open up to players at 20/5=4 level increments. Tier 1 should be connected to characters L1-4, tier 2 to L5-8, tier 3 to L9-12, tier 4 to L13-16 and tier 5 to L17-20. And, arrow connections from prerequisites in the same tier should be used to fine sift among the 4 levels being served by that tier of enhancements.

IMO this is the biggest flaw with the way the UI and enhancement trees are implemented. There is too big a reward to players for 4 levels of multiclassing and essentially no reward to players for maintaining essentially pure class characters. And, because the way this works out in the different trees is inconsistent from tree to tree some multiclass choices open up far greater options and power than others for much smaller splash sizes.

To repeat myself, multiclassing and the synergy that comes from it is its own reward. The enhancements should be geared towards rewarding characters that commit to their class. See the DM discussion for more on this POV.

[Havok.cry]

The only thing I am glad about from what I have seen so far, is that they raised the number of trees usable from the original "let's talk" three, up to seven. Ten would have been what I wanted, but having to make choices, to some extent (anything can be taken too far), is a good thing, I I am happy that they saw reason and gave us seven trees.

For the most part I like how they have handled the core class enhancements. I am in the indifferent-to-don't-like range for the rest of the class enhancements. Not the specific enhancements, but simply they way the trees work. It will take some adjustment, and I am up in the air as to weather or not I want to make that adjustment or just not play any more (Before anyone goes of on this, there are lots of reasons I have to not play any more, this is just going to be the capstone that tips things one way or another).

The thing I think is still very off though, is the racial trees. I really think the points spent there should interfere less with points spent in class trees. I have heard several suggestions as to how, and they have there own threads, so I'm not going to go into that here.

The main point I was getting at here, though, was that: No, not everyone who understands what is happening is satisfied with the koolaid being offered. Anyone who claims that everyone is has been drinking too much of said koolaid.

[2pleasegimmie]

Yeah, but only because you set the parameters to lose-lose. :P


There are multiple players (who have posted in the forums), myself included, who don't have a problem with the enhancement pass despite some nerfs and changes. A lot of the posts in the LAM threads by people previewing the enhancements have feedback (as was requested), but as usual, only a tiny handful of people are in an tizzy about it and try to dominate the boards with their personal nerd rage.

Pity the devs blew off most of the great suggestions/feedback, and are determined to ram this half-arsed pile of junk down our throats. On top of that, there's a gaggle of other nerfs incoming. Not to mention the fact of essentially misrepresenting the prerelease expansion. Your dismissal of other players' concerns is puerile.

[Scrag]

You shouldn't have to download a third party program in order to plan your character....


Although I believe the new enhancements are kind of strange, I do appreciate the added support for multiclassing as well as the attempt to introduce new styles into the game.

The implementation should get better as time goes on, they're being very cautious at the moment to make sure nothing is extremely broken.

First bit, yes. I do not want any third party software on my box. If it doesnt come from the vendor (and sometimes even that is questionable), I am not going to touch it.

Second bit, yeah, this is actually somewhat easier then what is on live. I think part of my problem is that I keep trying a caster (first time cleric player) on lam, and what the end results are sometimes don't make sense to me.

That said, _if you have multiple chances to reset_, for noobs lam is fantastic. Or noobs that are noob noobs and never have the old style at all, which frankly despite being an absolute horrid mess. The old style is at least is a bit more in line with what I would expect from pnp dnd for descriptions and general use, but I really would prefer the new style once I have spent some time studying it.

I can say that I took a sucky ass character from live and made them phenomenal on lam, and a great char and made her similar but different and still great. For noobs, two thumbs up.

[patang01]

Just finished reading a bunch of the stuff on the new Enhancement system. Two impressions:

1. Sooooo many different people are saying there is sooooo much wrong with sooooo many different things. It's kinda like the player base is saying, overall, as a whole, that this Enhancement Pass would be better off left for dead. At least until it's reworked oh six or twenty more times.

2. This mess is supposed to be easier for new players to understand? I've been playing DDO for about 2 and a half years (I know, the join date says longer...I took an involuntary absence for a while). This new thing is totally confusing. You have to unlock a tree to get what and then unlock another tree to get the other thing and then there are points spent requirements for racial core enhancements and.....what?!?!

The old (current) enhancement system is NOT hard to understand. At least for me, as a new player, it wasn't. This new system sounds like a maze a minotar couldn't find its way through.

The UI is easier. It is. But the problem is that core class abilities are split among prestige classes making it confusing for a lot of people. Ranger is one. Paladin another - where what would be your most basic core statistics is split brutally among 2-3 different prestige classes. In some case it'll take next to nothing to get what you want (Paladin, where exalted smite and lay on hands is split) and in other case it's worse - like favored enemy showing up in deepwood sniper. It's bad because it requires a high investment due to the silly spend in tree stuff - so in case of Ranger you will be forced to invest more AP in stuff you don't want because what used to be average class features is now inexplicably divided into prestige class trees.

This creates a lot of problem. It's clear that while the UI is better and the new tree system can lead to some really nice creations it also creates a complication with the stringent spend in tree and the dispersion of core features into separate trees. For some it works - some classes are really strong, and for other it doesn't.

Then theres just the mangling of how it used to work and now doesn't. Like Stalwart. You used to be able to use the tier III prestige while dual wielding. It was about the only way to add some HP and DPS to a Stalwart. Then combined with the capstone you had doublestrike.

Now the doublestrike capstone is Kensei and Stalwart has its own, plus in order to get the higher tier Stalwart bonuses you need shield. Breaking in essence Stalwarts few options for DPS.

Since AC just doesn't cut it, you're forced to either gimp your AC and go for DPS in the Kensei tree or go fullbore Stalwart and suffer greatly in regards to DPS.

That's the kind of issues you see with the new system. It makes Monks really strong, others remain okay, sorc broke and some other combinations hard.

I must say my 2fighter/18ranger did get stronger. I might not be able to afford putting much into favored enemy (that's a bummer) but since I can pick from Arcane Archer I've strengthen that ability. And since I can pick both from Kensei and Stalwart I can even dabble in that.

My hope is that they revisit this down the line and give it a second polishing pass. Just to iron out things that doesn't make sense.

[Alcedes]

they're being very cautious at the moment to make sure nothing is extremely broken.

^^This

i literally LOL'd at the very thought of Turbine possibly releasing content that isnt "extremely broken" at launch.


laughed to the point i had to step outside. the entire concept of "polished" content at release is lost on turbine.


the only thing Turbine knows how to do is release content and then move on to the next rushed content release to pull in more and more cash. and WB has only made things worse. i believe wholly that WB is the driving force behind this blatant and aggressive money grabbing the game is going for in the Turbine store now,

this expansion is no different.