Low population+mass zerging on thelanis,think of new server,whats yours like?

[Rakuda13]

As for people being "mean" and "not teaching" new players--all the resources are there for someone to teach themselves if they want to. They can look it up online. They can just run the quest on a low difficulty, or with a higher-level character. (I do this on new content, it is fun.) They can ASK. Probably 2/3 of the problem people I run with NEVER do ANY of this IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

I run into new people all the time that dont know that there is a DDO Wiki.To say that the new people can look it up when they dont even know it is around is really narrow minded.
There is almost nothing about making a character on the DDO website,and what is there has lots of dead ends.
DDO WIKI should be the Second biggest button next to the game download button on the DDO homepage.

[Chai]

I do not think it is necessarily people treating it like a job.

There are many days that when I go downtown I can either take 1-70 (15 minute drive) or I can take a more scenic route that takes 35 minutes. The scenic route may be “prettier”, but it is not always the best road for me to take. Sure it can be nice to relax, go slow and see the view, but after seeing it a million times, it becomes less important to see everything; I have seen it so often that it loses something.

I see zergers as the same thing. People do not see it as a job; it is just driving the same route to work every morning. You know where every pot hole is, every speed trap, everything about the trip. If you like going the slow route, help yourself. I just don’t think it is right to tell people to “stop and smell the roses” when they have been down that road a million times.

But at the same time, you dont berate and yell at folks who are taking the 35 minute slow route. Youre not telling them how stupid they are for making a different choice than you did. In contrast, just this week ive seen posts along the lines of "youre either playing a furyshot build or a shiradi sorc, everything else is ice skating uphill". In DDO, folks do get told its either this way or youre not doing it right. How new folks get treated round these parts is akin to telling people who take the 35 minute route they are idiots, because they arent maximizing their time at the end destination, but are choosing to maximize the journey there instead.

[Brunhildha]

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Don't you remember being new, when you didn't know what byoh meant, when you dumped con, (or some other important stat) and got embarrassed when you failed miserably when everyone was counting on you?

I don't kick people like that. I generally try to diplomatically see if they need some help through tells. (It's never a good idea to attempt to give advice over group chat as that just adds to the humiliation) Some take the help gracefully, some are simply idiots or not very nice people. But a lot of those people I still see playing later on and want to join my groups months later with much better skills and builds. And I'm not talking spending all my time doing this, just 5 minutes and a sincere attempt to be welcoming and nice can go really far for someone who might end up being a good player someday. Heck, just last night I ran Tangleroot with a player that had two rogue levels and could never find traps. I spent 5 minutes with them in between chapters and discovered the problem. He was very discouraged that he had screwed his toon up, but didn't know about the enhancement pass coming. I explained that he would be able to fix his problems after the enhancement pass. He was a good player otherwise, he simply didn't understand how to multiclass rogue and keep trap skills viable. So instead of dropping group when he failed to find a trap and died in it possibly calling him a noob before I left, it took 5 minutes to diagnose his problem, and find a solution. I have no doubt he'll need help when the EH pass comes out (we all will!) so I offered to help when the time came to redo his toon.

I'm not saying everyone has to do this, but please recognize that publicly pointing out to people what they're doing wrong is rarely considered helpful, it's humiliating. And kicking people from groups is simply rude. (If they were rude, then go for it. But if they're trying and simply failing, it's like a slap in the face) And we all set the tone for future players... laughing at people, kicking them, demeaning them in front of other new players just promotes that sort of behaviour.

You have no responsibility to help people or be nice, but just remember that your actions have consequences and if you love the game and don't want to see it die, you will consider how your behaviour affects other people.

Or you can just blame Turbine.

/signed.

[Charononus]

^^

I would also like to add, what is the penalty for a death or 20 in a quest? 10%...come on really?

If it's every quest it does add up, that said I still don't care about the occassional death. The only ones that get me are the ones where your contribution was to lower my sp from raises or my plat/scroll count from raises. If it seems like you're on team Evil Overlord it gets old very very fast.

[Vint]

But at the same time, you dont berate and yell at folks who are taking the 35 minute slow route. Youre not telling them how stupid they are for making a different choice than you did. In contrast, just this week ive seen posts along the lines of "youre either playing a furyshot build or a shiradi sorc, everything else is ice skating uphill". In DDO, folks do get told its either this way or youre not doing it right. How new folks get treated round these parts is akin to telling people who take the 35 minute route they are idiots, because they arent maximizing their time at the end destination, but are choosing to maximize the journey there instead.

No deal Chai. I will not yell at anyone for playing the way they like. What makes me mad is when someone wants to go slow and sit in the fast lane slowing me down. (Joining my zerg and being slow).

I understand that talk of Shiradi being the king, but I honestly care very little what people play. If they succeed or are terrible is of no concern no to me. It is when people bring their problems to me. This is the problem. I do not stand at the market bank looking over builds of people and then send tells telling them they are bad.

[AkromaAoW]

Hi all,

As it turns out, the Mrs. and I play on Thelanis along with our adult children and some other friends and family. We have been playing since the doors opened, and we'll probably still be playing when they close. We separated ourselves from the general population some time ago largely because our play style differs from the now typical party. After all these years, we still break things to ransack, kill to conquest, and trap to ingenious where possible. Occasionally, we might speed to the end, if there is a specific purpose, but that's more of an exception than the rule.

We aren't against grouping with most anyone (any class/build is fine) that can tolerate our play style, and folks that want a social experience (caveat: Mrs. might swear like a sailor at times) might look us up. We tend to stay together and work as a group to complete quests, even when party members can usually solo it. When the Mrs. plays her cleric, she even still (over) heals the party members.

We figured out a long time ago that playing DDO is like riding a motorcycle to some location. The fun, for us, is enjoying the trip, not reaching the destination.

Cheers,

E.

Edit: I conjectured in recent post on the Thelanis forum that we might soon be posting no rush, all classes welcome LFMs in the near future. Keep an eye out, if you're interested.

[Anarkius]

[blah - blah - blah]

Cheers,

E.

I'd +1 one ya there, but alas you have it turned off and I'm all out for the day

I'll have to look you and the family up when I get there

[danotmano1998]

(i like to have fun and enjoy the company and game,theres nothing wrong with being efficient, but it seems almost everyone plays like its a job lately,just super zergin to 20 to rinse and repeat.). is this a game wide trend or just tough luck on thelanis? thinkin of movin servers,is yours better?

PM Sent, You sound like exactly the kind of player that would make a good addition to the guild I'm in on Thelanis.

[Chai]

No deal Chai. I will not yell at anyone for playing the way they like. What makes me mad is when someone wants to go slow and sit in the fast lane slowing me down. (Joining my zerg and being slow).

I understand that talk of Shiradi being the king, but I honestly care very little what people play. If they succeed or are terrible is of no concern no to me. It is when people bring their problems to me. This is the problem. I do not stand at the market bank looking over builds of people and then send tells telling them they are bad.

At this point, anyone who puts up an LFM, or joins an LFM, is taking the risk of ending up in a group with people they arent compatible with. It has been clearly demonstrated over the majority of years this game has been out now that no amount of description in the LFM panel is going to deter people who are the exact opposite of what the leader is looking for from joining. Ill even go as far as saying that in some cases, it encourages the poor behavior.

[Kmnh]

I think DDO would benefit a lot from a server merge. It would make it much easier to find people with compatible playstyles to play with. The best server is the one where you know plenty of people that you enjoy playing with.

My server, Cannith, is doing fine. The work my guildies put into building a stronger community is paying off and it's way easier to group now. There are a lot of fresh newbies around who are not afraid of jumping into an EE pug. Our veterans can play melees and healers very well and are stubborn enough to keep doing so. The blight of furyshot builds and shiradi sorcerers is under control and most of our runs are actually interactive instead of the mess of kiting and cheap CC that we used to see.

[Vint]

At this point, anyone who puts up an LFM, or joins an LFM, is taking the risk of ending up in a group with people they arent compatible with. It has been clearly demonstrated over the majority of years this game has been out now that no amount of description in the LFM panel is going to deter people who are the exact opposite of what the leader is looking for from joining. Ill even go as far as saying that in some cases, it encourages the poor behavior.

And this explains why there are more guild and channel runs than LFM’s. People are tired of the box of chocolates. What I find funny is the reaction of people here.

A zergers joins a slow person run and ruins the group, and we are trying to burn the zergers at the stake.

A slow person joins a zerg run and ruins the group, we are still yelling at the zergers. What do you people want? We will only yell at the zergers even when the roles are reversed? Good one.

[Charononus]

[Teh_Troll]

A slow person joins a zerg run and ruins the group, we are still yelling at the zergers. What do you people want? We will only yell at the zergers even when the roles are reversed? Good one.

Didn't you know that zergers are evil?

[Charononus]

Didn't you know that zergers are evil?

Am I evil? Yes I am.
Am I evil? I am man, yes I am.

..

[AzB]

A zergers joins a slow person run and ruins the group, and we are trying to burn the zergers at the stake.

A slow person joins a zerg run and ruins the group, we are still yelling at the zergers. What do you people want? We will only yell at the zergers even when the roles are reversed? Good one.

There is a simple explanation for this dichotomy. Zergers are typically veterans. Many times slower players are new or casual players who don't have the quests memorized.

Veterans can go fast. Or they can go slow. Newer and more casual players may not be able to keep up.

Veterans have the capability to adjust speed up or down. Newer players have only slow.

I have no problem with zergers. I only have problems with zergers who get in a group with new people and act like it's the end of the world that they have to slow down. Be considerate if you expect the same from others.

[Chai]

And this explains why there are more guild and channel runs than LFM’s. People are tired of the box of chocolates. What I find funny is the reaction of people here.

A zergers joins a slow person run and ruins the group, and we are trying to burn the zergers at the stake.

A slow person joins a zerg run and ruins the group, we are still yelling at the zergers. What do you people want? We will only yell at the zergers even when the roles are reversed? Good one.

Its not a one way street, nor has it ever been. The people who try to say it is are being completely subjective. The entire reason the issue exists is lack of investment in the quality of the PUG scene in peoples respective servers, over an extended period of time. People are sick of the box of chocolates, but they still try to stick their hand in that box and always think they are entitled to only pull a gem out. Sorry but those were picked clean from the box a long time ago.

[Vint]

There is a simple explanation for this dichotomy. Zergers are typically veterans. Many times slower players are new or casual players who don't have the quests memorized.

Veterans can go fast. Or they can go slow. Newer and more casual players may not be able to keep up.

Veterans have the capability to adjust speed up or down. Newer players have only slow.

I have no problem with zergers. I only have problems with zergers who get in a group with new people and act like it's the end of the world that they have to slow down. Be considerate if you expect the same from others.

It is not my fault if a new player can go fast. If there are that many people that buy into your concept, why are there not that many “all welcome” LFM’s?

The other problem I have is being “considerate”. If you cannot fulfill what the LFM is asking for, don’t join. It is not my fault that there are no other LFM’s up in the level range that cater to the slow. How considerate is it if someone joins a zerg party knowing that they cannot? Does it not matter if the other 5 people in the party are having a bad time do to this pugger?

This is the reason people stick to guild or channel. They are tired of ending up with that pugger that is not considerate of the group. Join my party and do what is asked and we will be best friends. Join and do what you want because you have nothing better to do then it is a different game.

[Vint]

Its not a one way street, nor has it ever been. The people who try to say it is are being completely subjective. The entire reason the issue exists is lack of investment in the quality of the PUG scene in peoples respective servers, over an extended period of time. People are sick of the box of chocolates, but they still try to stick their hand in that box and always think they are entitled to only pull a gem out. Sorry but those were picked clean from the box a long time ago.

This is crazy talk. As soon as I tell someone that they should invest in self-healing, I am told that I am a jerk and quit telling people how to play their toon. I do this not because I like it, but there will be plenty of times where there is no cleric available and they could be in trouble.

As soon as I point someone to wiki telling them there is a ton of information I hear, “I am here to play a game, not take a class”. As soon as I tell someone that there are some good builds to look at on these forums “Don’t tell me how to play my toon”.

People can be the savior for all I care. I am sick of running with people that want to do nothing more than hope that someone in the party can carry them thru. If people want to change diapers for people that do not want to help themselves, have fun. I am sick of trying to figure out if I wipe front to back with these people that just want to leech.

[Teh_Troll]

Its not a one way street, nor has it ever been. The people who try to say it is are being completely subjective. The entire reason the issue exists is lack of investment in the quality of the PUG scene in peoples respective servers, over an extended period of time. People are sick of the box of chocolates, but they still try to stick their hand in that box and always think they are entitled to only pull a gem out. Sorry but those were picked clean from the box a long time ago.

Nonsense. Absolute horse-hockey. Did you hurt yourself pulling that out of a random orifice?

I throw up an LFM for a quest I've started and 9 times out of 10 I'm done before anyone hits it.

[SerPounce]

I see zergers as the same thing. People do not see it as a job; it is just driving the same route to work every morning. You know where every pot hole is, every speed trap, everything about the trip. If you like going the slow route, help yourself. I just don’t think it is right to tell people to “stop and smell the roses” when they have been down that road a million times.

So it's not so much "treating like a job" as "treating it like a daily commute"? That sounds worse if anything, jobs can be good, bad, or neutral depending on the specifics, but commutes just suck.

I definitely see the OP's point. Most people run quests a few times, or maybe once every X period of time, and take a break or do something else when there's nothing interesting to run. Since DDO is an old game most people have gotten their fill of most of the quests. That means that at any given time most of the server is made up of two divergent groups: newish people who are still experiencing the game for the first few times, and hardcore people who are in it entirely (or almost entirely) to achieve a goal (i.e. "treating it like a job/commute"). Doesn't take a genius to realize those groups aren't going to mix well.

Those hardcore grinders can make the servers look a lot more active than they really are because they're on all the time and use the PUG system pretty regularly.

If you're a more causal player you just have to accept that there are not a lot of people playing this game right now in a causal way, and that it's going to take time to fill casual style groups. You're best bet is to try to make friends who want to play like you do and plan ahead, just like real life.

For myself I have enough of an obsessive streak that I can get into the hardcore zerg when I want to PUG, but I have weekly times set aside with friends for more fun maximizing play. I'd rather my friends were on all time and we always played in that causal way (we're vets at this point so it's still elite streaks or EE, but at a more relaxed pace), but that's just not practical.